Is Tupac Shakur a Prophet?

[BeckyThatch]

I live in a "hood".
I claim colours.
I acknowledge and "diss" others in public (music).

I have a "funny" feeling I am going to get shot.....

Wow... What a true inspirational man he was to figure that out on his own... He must be a prophet... because it's rare for gang memebers to be shot.... Please. He's about as much of a prophet as I am a freaking banana...

I wouldn't even call him a fortune teller... It's like being a person who handles snakes all his life and he says "I am going to get bitten by a snake one day soon."

Thanks for the yuks Angel

 

[Matt Langley]

For a child to have no choice but to be raised in a violent society and a tuff life it's only natural for him to live the way of his environment.

I disagree completely with every fiber of my being (though not meant offensively just my beleif). I strongly beleive we define our own self and that it definately is not defined by our environment.

To beleive so would be to downplay everyone who has grown up in a bad situation and turned out good.

I beleive Tupac was not a prophet and just had a very good side to him. I also beleive he had a bad side to him. Just like we all do. I beleive he crippled himself by beleiving there were certain acts and parts of him that were defined by his environment... Once you tell yourself you cannot change then you indeed cannot change.

One of my favorite quotes on the topic:

The difference between animals and humans is that animals change themselves for the environment, but humans change the environment for themselves.

 

[Caimanson]

I disagree completely with every fiber of my being (though not meant offensively just my beleif). I strongly beleive we define our own self and that it definately is not defined by our environment.

To beleive so would be to downplay everyone who has grown up in a bad situation and turned out good.

What about those that were raised in an apparently good situation, and turned out bad?

What you are saying contradicts what psychology has to say on the matter. I think perhaps you are mixing up responsibility and environment.

Latest neuropsychology is discovering how emotional deprivation correlates with stunted development of areas of the brain that deal with emotions.
So quite literally some criminals and sociopaths are unable to feel empathy for other people, because that is the way environment hardwired their brain.
Why is this? self protection, they have been so deprived that it is better to shut down all emotions all together.

While I think it is true that someone can turn out good out of a 'bad' environment, you will see that it is because someone planted good seed in them in the first place.

 

[Matt Langley]

What about those that were raised in an apparently good situation, and turned out bad?

What you are saying contradicts what psychology has to say on the matter. I think perhaps you are mixing up responsibility and environment.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. People who grow up in a good situation and t urn out bad is supporting what I said... that their environment didn't define them, it just influenced them, they chose a different path for themself.

Latest neuropsychology is discovering how emotional deprivation correlates with stunted development of areas of the brain that deal with emotions.
So quite literally some criminals and sociopaths are unable to feel empathy for other people, because that is the way environment hardwired their brain.
Why is this? self protection, they have been so deprived that it is better to shut down all emotions all together.

Very true and the way the brain works supports this. Stronger synapses between part of yoru brain that is accessed more. Especially when a child.

All this means is that your environment influences you, not defines you. Just like a person can grow up in a wonderful environment and become a criminal.

In the end it is our choices that define us. Sure if we are raised in certain situations it makes choosing something different harder, but that is how life is. It's often hard learning something new but people do it every day.

 

[Caimanson]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. People who grow up in a good situation and t urn out bad is supporting what I said... that their environment didn't define them, it just influenced them, they chose a different path for themself.

I was trying to say that they turn out bad because only in appearance their environment is good. Though either way we can only speculate, unless we analyse a specific case.

In the end it is our choices that define us. Sure if we are raised in certain situations it makes choosing something different harder, but that is how life is. It's often hard learning something new but people do it every day.

I wish it was as simple as you describe it.
I could agree, if we assume that the range of choice and change is delimited by our history, experience and makeup.
We can get better pears from a pear tree, but not oranges, not even mediocre oranges.

 

[Matt Langley]

I could agree, if we assume that the range of choice and change is delimited by our history, experience and makeup.

I agree completely; however, the history, experience, and makeup is much more of a choice than it may seem. If you choose to seek out information you will often find alot more of it than those that don't. Thats why there are 12 year olds programming C++, some with no family members or friends being programmers. They chose to seek it out and they found it. Choice is much more of an integral part of it than it may seem.

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,

I think that Tupac was a music artist that specalized in the style of urban music called "rap".

I am not aware of any particular religious claims that he may have made.

metta,

~v

 

[Postmaster]

One of his album covers.. 2pac is the image on the cross. This was produced after his death? Personally i consider it heretical. But doesn't stop me finding other postive meaning in tupacs life. I guess he did give us rich artistic work. But was he a possitive role model for other people bought up in his situation, I would say maybe yes. You can have war lords with ethics, you can have criminals with ethics. im not saying he was any of these, but its clear he didnt live a sqeeky clean life, maybe he gives light to thoughs in his shoes. Thats where his virtue lays, he is not universally accpetable though.

 

[Abubakar]

I feel Tupac was a talented individual and one of the best poets in history. I feel that he was Prophet to and for his people. If you read in the bible the book of "Judges" you can understand what i'm talking about. His life was hard no doubt, but he over came most of his obstacles. All of his music, sent out messages of truth and consequence in society as well as in Life. Granted some of his music did not "sugar coat" some of the harsh realities in life, but most if not all his lyrics ring truth. I think his death was not from his life style but more like GOD simply taking him home.

All of his music?

I suggest you listen to his entire catalogue not just the great ones but the dross as well.

The man was a good poet but thats about it.

Who were his people that you are talking about? Why do you think he was a prophet? What did we tell us?

I think you are a romantic.

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

All of his music?
I suggest you listen to his entire catalogue not just the great ones but the dross as well..

I think I have heard most of his songs.
Seems he keeps putting out more songs, even after his death

The man was a good poet but thats about it..

You do not have to be "religious" or "holy" or even have mass appeal to be a "prophet" or speak prophetic truth. Read Judges you will understand where I'm coming from.

Who were his people that you are talking about?

His people are those are are attracted to his words.
This is the name of one of his songs and who he dedicated it to.
"The Good Die Young"
This song is dedicated to all them
Young kids and people that are innocent
That died young
At Columbine High
Rest in Peace (Oklahoma)
what kind of rapper dedicates his music to a National tragedy?
That's what I mean by "his people"

Why do you think he was a prophet? What did we tell us?

In the song "Life Goes On", Tupac raps about his own funeral.

I think you are a romantic.

Not a romantic. I did not like Tupac when he first came out. I did not the tone of his voice. When I started to listen and tryin to understand his lyrics, then I understood what he was talking about. All his lyrics have a message coded in "curssing" or street talk. I also feel the book "1984" by George Orwell was extremely prophetic about how things are now. If you get the chance, read it. By the way, you must not like Tupac or rap music. It seems you are rather deffensive about Tupac being a little prophetic.

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. People who grow up in a good situation and t urn out bad is supporting what I said... that their environment didn't define them, it just influenced them, they chose a different path for themself.



Very true and the way the brain works supports this. Stronger synapses between part of yoru brain that is accessed more. Especially when a child.

All this means is that your environment influences you, not defines you. Just like a person can grow up in a wonderful environment and become a criminal.

In the end it is our choices that define us. Sure if we are raised in certain situations it makes choosing something different harder, but that is how life is. It's often hard learning something new but people do it every day.

I don't think Tu-pac ever really blames his environment. As a matter of fact most people really dont blame their environment, (unless it is legally or politically correct),as the sole reason for thier for what ever it is they are going through.

Sustained opression( what most "ghettos" were designed to be) is the something different than a bad environment. A social an economic environment designed to supress and in some cases devour creative energy is what he was talking about.

I think that most people can not relate to the African American eperience in American. I'v even found that Africans can not even fully relate to the African Americans. I am married to an African woman and I have to explain to her why African Americans act the way they do.

Unless you have walked a mile in someones shoes, do not, judge them.

 

[SpiritualHumanist]

Tupac - I will give him good rapper. I will even grant an ocassional good poem. But Phrophet- Come on he was a gangster , rapist, murderer. He wasnt a victim, He made choices, he didnt have to be a gangster, no way in hell did he
have to be a rapist.So there you can say whatever you want ,but once you
fire a gun onto someone for no reason, or you rape someone or are just a general jackass you lose all creditability.He brought his life upon himself as we all do.

 

[Postmaster]

He wasn't found guilty of rape and he makes it clear in his music that he never rapped a women.

So complicated to escape fate
And you can never understand till we trade places
Tell the world I been guilty to being anxious
Ain't no way in hell, that I could ever be a rapist
It's time to face this, cold world on a good day
When will they let the little kids in the hood play?

from the song letter to my unborn child. He was worried he was going to die before his childs birth and wrote this song for his child.

 

[17th Angel]

One of his album covers.. 2pac is the image on the cross. This was produced after his death? Personally i consider it heretical.

Thats ok for him to pretend to be jesus... Yet a GOOD and TALENTED musical group (The Beatles) get told off for saying on their cover "bigger than jesus."

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Thats ok for him to pretend to be jesus... Yet a GOOD and TALENTED musical group (The Beatles) get told off for saying on their cover "bigger than jesus."

Did the Beatles come from the ghetto?

 

[InLove]

Hi YO--

When a thread kind of "haunts" me--what I mean is the idea stays with me, it usually means that what I keep wanting to contribute is worth saying. This is one of those threads.

I don't really know much about Shakur. I have seen a couple of interviews and heard a few tunes. Beyond that, all I really know about him is what I have read right here and on his website.

Let me first say that I think there is the prophetic element in more places than we realize. Science, music and arts of all kinds, even history and math and in the theology and Sacred Texts of many traditions and cultures. I think that truth can be found in so many places if we are just willing to see it.

I know Shakur does not necessarily blame his environment entirely for his situation. Good for him! But in my opinion, why should he overlook its profound influence, either? We all come from somewhere.

There are people in this world who are born addicted to drugs into families or communities where this is the way of life. There are newborn babies all over this world without food. How are they to see the world and life any other way? I don't know. But some manage to do it, and it is amazing. And for them to be able to communicate these things to the rest of us who don't know about it--well, what is wrong with that? Moreover, hopefully they are an encouragement to those who are still living it. The fact that their messages are often misunderstood by those who cannot fathom the situation they are in does not make their work invalid.

YO, you know I love music, don't you? I come from a place where my peers in general can see no value whatsoever in rap music. But the children? Now that is a different story. They understand it, and some people think this is a bad thing. I say, "not so". If our children cannot learn to discern between acting out the lives of the people being featured in a work of art and simply trying to understand them, then we are not teaching our children very well. Would we rather they not be exposed to the ugly side of life? Of course! But it exists, and they are going to have to deal with it just like all of us before them. And if we are so delicate that we can't at least look into what an artist is trying to say, then how on earth will we ever be good leaders in the eyes of our kids?

I dunno. Guess I just wanted to say that. Just been thinking about it all. What do you think, YO, about what I've said? Because I am not attempting to be rhetorical. I really want to know what you think.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InLove]

Hi again, YO--

I thought I should emphasize that I am not talking about unsupervised listening. Nor am I saying that a young child who has no idea about the material introduced in works such as Shakur's should have it pushed on them. What I am saying is that when your kid asks about it or when they start to hear it from outside their own home--especially if a parent sees that they are taking the poetry out of context--then it is time for the parent or guardian to take the reins and explain what is happening in this artist's viewpoint. What that means, to me, is that we can't just look the other way and say, "That is not music--it's vulgar!" without being able to justify to our children why we think that. And I think that once we actually take a good, honest look at what the artist is trying to say, then we will have a better handle on how to communicate with our chidren about it.

By the way, is it really necessary to play it so LOUD??? And at gas stations where me and my kids are a captive audience and I have to hear all that language??? And at railroad crossings where it is dangerous to do that? And here, I am not just speaking about rap music. It could Billy Graham for all I care (nice guy, by the way), but turn down the volume, please. Have some consideration for those around you. And I'd probably not mind that so much at the gas station, but you put someone like Rush Limbaugh on there and force me to listen to it, and I've got issues with your manners!! And I feel the same way about rap music or anything that people try to cram down my throat at inappropriate moments in inappropriate fashion. Anyway-we all have our issues, and I'm taking the thought off-track here.

Back on topic....

InPeace,
InLove

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Hi YO--

When a thread kind of "haunts" me--what I mean is the idea stays with me, it usually means that what I keep wanting to contribute is worth saying. This is one of those threads.

You can thank postmaster for that
Good going Postmaster.

I don't really know much about Shakur. I have seen a couple of interviews and heard a few tunes. Beyond that, all I really know about him is what I have read right here and on his website.

I did not know mcuh about him either, until I watched a video of his life.
If you get the chance watch one of his life videos. It will help you understand him as a person.

Let me first say that I think there is the prophetic element in more places than we realize. Science, music and arts of all kinds, even history and math and in the theology and Sacred Texts of many traditions and cultures. I think that truth can be found in so many places if we are just willing to see it.

I agree totally. I feel that nobody or religion has a "monoploy" on GOD.

I know Shakur does not necessarily blame his environment entirely for his situation. Good for him! But in my opinion, why should he overlook its profound influence, either? We all come from somewhere.

Well, most of his music was about his environment and to help others in the same situation escape it. I think alot of people get his "dance and fun" music mixed up with his "message music".

There are people in this world who are born addicted to drugs into families or communities where this is the way of life. There are newborn babies all over this world without food. How are they to see the world and life any other way? I don't know. But some manage to do it, and it is amazing.

Not "human" amazing, Just GOD.

And for them to be able to communicate these things to the rest of us who don't know about it--well, what is wrong with that?

Nothing at all. Some people do not like to hear from " the poor and unfortunate" Even if the reson why they are poor is because of the person who does not want to listen.
"TPU" ( The Poor and Unfortunate)

Moreover, hopefully they are an encouragement to those who are still living it. The fact that their messages are often misunderstood by those who cannot fathom the situation they are in does not make their work invalid.

Listen to the Lyrics, you will hear encouragement.

YO, you know I love music, don't you?

Yep

I come from a place where my peers in general can see no value whatsoever in rap music.

My father does not like Rap too much. He will listen to it if I bug him enough.
So do not feel bad. I think it is a generation thing.

But the children? Now that is a different story. They understand it, and some people think this is a bad thing. I say, "not so". If our children cannot learn to discern between acting out the lives of the people being featured in a work of art and simply trying to understand them, then we are not teaching our children very well.

I agree

Would we rather they not be exposed to the ugly side of life? Of course! But it exists, and they are going to have to deal with it just like all of us before them. And if we are so delicate that we can't at least look into what an artist is trying to say, then how on earth will we ever be good leaders in the eyes of our kids?

Well you can not guard your children from the world, but you can be "approchable" enough, that if they have a question about what they hear in a rap song or hear or see something on TV or radio or any other source, to be able to talk with them about it and help them make the discernment.

I dunno. Guess I just wanted to say that. Just been thinking about it all. What do you think, YO, about what I've said?

You said what you feel. That's what it is all about.

One of my saying is " Keep it real with GOD and GOD will keep it real with you"

Because I am not attempting to be rhetorical. I really want to know what you think.

I think it is a good thing when humans interact with language instead of war or any other form of violence. Rap, I fell, is a good outlet to express whats going on in places you have no clue about. When Rap music is questioned and examined, thats when the, real learining take place.






InPeace,
InLove

YO-11

 

[InLove]

You can thank postmaster for that
Good going Postmaster.

Thank you Postmaster! I didn't notice who had started the thread. I'd love to hear your views or anyone who would like to respond to the comments I addressed to YO.

I did not know mcuh about him either, until I watched a video of his life.
If you get the chance watch one of his life videos. It will help you understand him as a person.

I will put that on my list. Just got some new media equipment, so when I can get out (can't get out much), I'll look for one. The interviews I have seen did a pretty good job of presenting his views.

I agree totally. I feel that nobody or religion has a "monoploy" on GOD.

I watch the world haggle over GOD and can't help but wonder: If we all have GOD, then why don't we stop fighting over GOD?.

Well, most of his music was about his environment and to help others in the same situation escape it. I think alot of people get his "dance and fun" music mixed up with his "message music".

I agree. I think this is why it is important to attempt to view any kind of art as objectively as possible, especially if one is disturbed by something about it. This is where the history behind the art comes in. If I look at my own work from a decade ago, there may be something even I don't understand. I then have to look at it in context. That is, simply, "Why did I write that or arrange that music a certain way or use that particular symbolism in a painting?" If we can allow ourselves enough objectivity to see things in the artist's intended context, then not only does it open up the historical indications, but it also frees our minds up to discover the timeless elements. I am rambling now, aren't I?

I think it is a good thing when humans interact with language instead of war or any other form of violence. Rap, I fell, is a good outlet to express whats going on in places you have no clue about. When Rap music is questioned and examined, thats when the, real learining take place.

That's my point, as well. Thanks--good to see you around more these days.

InPeace,
InLove