Who is Jesus?

[Saltmeister]

The Bible contains the words of God, or the word of truth (Gospel), though you may consider the Gospel of Christ as Bible also, just like the Five Books of Moses which were considered as Bible also. But restrictively biblically speaking, the Bible (66 books) cannot be biblically considered as the Word of God or just the word of God because not all passages of statements there are word/s of God the Father.

It is enough to say that:

The Bible is the Book of the LORD. Isaiah 34:16
Christ Jesus is the Word of God.

But it is misleading to say: the Bible is the word/Word of God.

Yes, I agree, to some extent.

By "Word of God," a lot of people mean an Instruction Manual that contains no errors (scientifically, theologically and logically) or mistakes. A legal document, technical manual, a science textbook, a book of propositions. That, though is not how I think we should see the Bible.

The "Word of God" in John 1 is the Logos, Greek for the reasoning or wisdom (of God), which is purely abstract and word-less. The Bible itself is more like a Journal (rather than instruction manual) that records the thoughts, experiences and insights of the prophets and apostles. These prophets and apostles were people who discovered, understood and had an intimate and personal connection with the Logos. The purpose of the Bible is to remind us of what these prophets/apostles discovered. By reading the Bible, we rediscover what the personal Christ/Messiah meant to these prophets/apostles and by doing so we can realise what the personal Christ/Messiah means for us.

The Bible is the "Word of God" only when its true meaning is uncovered. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of words. A language is just a structural and systematic framework for the expression of meaning. Words are part of this framework, yet sometimes in literature they have a meaning outside of that framework. An example is the use of metaphors, puns and colloquiallisms. They often convey an agenda that cannot be known in terms of the words themselves. Sometimes it requires knowledge of how life and society works. When reading literature like the Bible, the idea is not to confine the meaning to the words themselves, but try and discern what the words are trying to say.

The phrase "word of God" is highly subjective and really depends on what you consider to be the "word of God." Is it a technical and literal specification or wisdom independent of words?

 

[AletheiaRivers]

The Bible itself is more like a Journal (rather than instruction manual) that records the thoughts, experiences and insights of the prophets and apostles. These prophets and apostles were people who discovered, understood and had an intimate and personal connection with the Logos.

I couldn't have put it better.

The more I study Christ as Logos, the more awed I become at the wisdom and insight found in Scripture that pertains to the Word.

 

[enton]

Yes, I agree, to some extent.

The phrase "word of God" is highly subjective and really depends on what you consider to be the "word of God." Is it a technical and literal specification or wisdom independent of words?

We have to be biblically, logically and linguistically specific.
Word of God, Word of life = Christ Jesus (John 1:1 etc)
word of God = word of truth, word of life, Gospel of salvation
Bible = books, book of the LORD.

The 66 books or the Bible contains statements and declarations which are not spoken by God or by men of God.

 

[inhumility]

Ahmadi View

And inhumility, I personally am very interested in a Muslim's view of who Jesus is and how it fits into your life. I'm not sure where the "lines of the law" fall on this forum but I think it should be allowable if it is given in an attempt to help Christians understand their own religion.

In the above spirit expressed by you, I submit my view on the topic “Who is Jesus?” Mine is basically and naturally view of an Ahmadi - a faith in Islam, since I am follower of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS, 1835-1908), who proclaimed that he was the same Messiah/Imam Mahdi as prophesized by Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) in his Tradition or Ahadith and as alluded in Quran,a true Spiritual and Peaceful Successor of Muhammad in the latter days.
Following points must be carefully noted here so that one does not misunderstand the Claim of Ahmad, right from the start.
1. Ahmad, as per his claim, is neither literally born of Mary mother of Jesus nor he is literally Jesus, a prophet of Israel who was put on Cross by his opponents, but he did not die a cursed/unnatural death on Cross, though he swooned on the Cross, treated for his serious injuries in the grave, yet got cured, met his disciples and confidents, showed his wounds to them ate with them so they may recognize him that he was the same person ( not a spirit or ghost) that was put on Cross. From Galilee, where he last met his disciples and confidents, Jesus wet to some unknown (to ordinary Christians and Muslims) destination not to sky or heaven but to lost tribes of Israel in far off lands, where he died a natural death at some point in the history.
2. Ahmad was born of Muslim parents in Quadian a town in India, yet he claims in another sense, which is truly metaphoric/symbolic/spiritual, for himself to be Mary, Son of Mary (Ibne Marium), Jesus, Messiah etc as per Muhammad's Tradition and as per Quran. Ahmad is not a born again of any person in the past.
3. Ahmad whom henceforth I would refer as Promised Messiah, in the specific meanings as explained in the previous paragraphs, his advent from God as a Peaceful Religious Reformer is for Uniting All the Religions of the World peacefully into one entity with reason, dialogue, peaceful prayers, peacefully and nothing else but peacefully; he categorically abolished Jehad-war for supremacy of religious beliefs.
4. Promised Messiah has also informed that all Revealed Religions of the world are truthful in their origin as also their religious reformers are true Prophets/Messengers from God i.e. Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus (not Paul) and Muhammad etc (their common belief being Oneness of God) are all true Prophets/Messengers/Chosen’s of God.
5. We believe and use Books of all these Revealed Religions , containing true guidance from God starting from the time of Adam as and when God revealed his Word on any of his obedient Man as he chose under an elaborate system as mentioned in Quran, without ambiguities, contradictions and doubts whatsoever.
This is in short.
Thanks

 

[Quahom1]

The Bible itself is more like a Journal (rather than instruction manual) that records the thoughts, experiences and insights of the prophets and apostles. These prophets and apostles were people who discovered, understood and had an intimate and personal connection with the Logos.

Then by the very acceptance of the words of the prophets, one can not but admit that the Bible is in fact an instruction manual (as well as a journal). For what is a prophet, if not one who warns us to change our ways, before it is too late?

The Journal part, tells us of the successes and "failures" of man adhering to the instructions of God.

I have searched dictionaries over and over, and no where do I find the definition of "Commandment" described as "a suggestion".

my thoughts

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

Re: Ahmadi View

In the above spirit expressed by you, I submit my view on the topic “Who is Jesus?” Mine is basically and naturally view of an Ahmadi - a faith in Islam, since I am follower of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS, 1835-1908), who proclaimed that he was the same Messiah/Imam Mahdi as prophesized by Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) in his Tradition or Ahadith and as alluded in Quran,a true Spiritual and Peaceful Successor of Muhammad in the latter days.
Following points must be carefully noted here so that one does not misunderstand the Claim of Ahmad, right from the start.
1. Ahmad, as per his claim, is neither literally born of Mary mother of Jesus nor he is literally Jesus, a prophet of Israel who was put on Cross by his opponents, but he did not die a cursed/unnatural death on Cross, though he swooned on the Cross, treated for his serious injuries in the grave, yet got cured, met his disciples and confidents, showed his wounds to them ate with them so they may recognize him that he was the same person ( not a spirit or ghost) that was put on Cross. From Galilee, where he last met his disciples and confidents, Jesus wet to some unknown (to ordinary Christians and Muslims) destination not to sky or heaven but to lost tribes of Israel in far off lands, where he died a natural death at some point in the history.
2. Ahmad was born of Muslim parents in Quadian a town in India, yet he claims in another sense, which is truly metaphoric/symbolic/spiritual, for himself to be Mary, Son of Mary (Ibne Marium), Jesus, Messiah etc as per Muhammad's Tradition and as per Quran. Ahmad is not a born again of any person in the past.
3. Ahmad whom henceforth I would refer as Promised Messiah, in the specific meanings as explained in the previous paragraphs, his advent from God as a Peaceful Religious Reformer is for Uniting All the Religions of the World peacefully into one entity with reason, dialogue, peaceful prayers, peacefully and nothing else but peacefully; he categorically abolished Jehad-war for supremacy of religious beliefs.
4. Promised Messiah has also informed that all Revealed Religions of the world are truthful in their origin as also their religious reformers are true Prophets/Messengers from God i.e. Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus (not Paul) and Muhammad etc (their common belief being Oneness of God) are all true Prophets/Messengers/Chosen’s of God.
5. We believe and use Books of all these Revealed Religions , containing true guidance from God starting from the time of Adam as and when God revealed his Word on any of his obedient Man as he chose under an elaborate system as mentioned in Quran, without ambiguities, contradictions and doubts whatsoever.
This is in short.
Thanks

Interesting. However, there is a part that seems to be ignored. When Jesus was pierced by the spear, what let out was the seperation of Blood (water and plasma). This is indicitive of a body that has expired (died). In otherwords, Jesus "swooned" unto death, physically, completely, and utterly. Since it is the body's natural inclination to heal itself, the fact that Jesus' wounds did not heal, is also indicitive of a dead body. Even after a day or two, a living body will show signs of healing...this was not the case as noted by witnesses, not even 39 days after Jesus left the grave.

I find irony in the fact that you seem incessent in dispelling the Divine nature of Jesus, in front of a Christian audience no less! And since you seem insistent on doing so, and this thread has taken a right angle turn that has nothing to do with Christ's divinity, I think it best to be placed in a more appropriate area.

Moved to the Abrahamic Main Forum.

v/r

Q