Is the God we worship a lier ?

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BigBang

BigBang
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Right when we start the old testment we get into a lot of trouble and it lasts till the end. unless we keep on ignoring whatever is written. but the fact is that we read bible as a devine revelation and how can we ignore when God starts telling lies right from the start about the creation of this universe till the end with such very strange stories about the end of it. just imagine. if i cant trust the words which we are told are the direct revelations and the most holy one, what can we trust than.
 
If god created everything he created lies too?

When your young and you ask where babies come from, I'm sure you get a totally different version to when u are older. God might reveal himself to us in different ways regarding our capacity to understand.

The truth might keep changing indefinitely.
 
Postmaster said:
if god created everything he created lies too?
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SUPER ! TELL ME THE TRUTH, would you worship a God who's a lier, and a deciver. no for me he created every thing alright but will never intend to use evil insticts.

also please do not tell your babies stories and lies about things they do not understand, just tell them a very simple model and tell them that they will understand it when the time will come or otherwise the very first thing they will learn about you the "dad or mom" will be that THEY ARE BIG LIERS.
 
Nah disagree with that, you say they got bought by a stork then as they get older you say from kissing! Until they can handle the truth!

It kind of the way God reveals himself to us over time.. Children might not be able to understand or accpet even a simply form of what adults know.
 
so you want your kids to remember you as a lier but i wouldnt, meanwhile the problem is bigger than a stork or just kissing.
God says genesis 1/1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. we know that in the begning there was no water but there were gases instead.genesis 1/3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. we know that lights are because of stars, and it just happens that the God have not yet created them on the first day of creation.
genesis 1/5. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. same. day and night is because of rotation of earth arround sun, and when the stars have not yet formed where does nights and days come from.
moreover on the third day God grew a very organized system of plants and trees. WOW without sun light what are we talking about. on the fourth day the sun was created along with other stars. sun is comming after the days and nights and plant are already formed. what kind of stork story God is trying to tell us. so now we have grown older does this means that we should change the old lies God mentioned in his Direct Revelations. (which i guess we have been doing anyways) why in the first place GOD didnt reveled the truth which we were bound to find anyway. why are we so stupid to believe in this?
 
while the postmaster is gone for the moment i wish there could be any muslim or hindu brother explaining there religious views about the creation of this universe to start with. (since this is the first topic in bible)
 
Here I thought you were going to bring up all the moral contradictions and double standards and whatnot.

I'm not Hindu or Muslim, but the way I understand it, the account of Creation is meant to be read as an esoteric account of the origin of the world, not a literal one. I think it is best understood from a Kabbalistic point of view, in the original Hebrew, because some things don't translate well. I don't think it is a lie per se, just that you have to look deeper to see the truth and understand it, like a metaphor.
 
now this is what really makes me sleep, every time i have a question and no one have the answere they come up with same stories like these, think deeper, not litrally, not well translation, or simply believe in it. why not others think deeper into the words. and come up with somthing more logical and scientific which more people can believe.
 
Postmaster said:
Nah disagree with that, you say they got bought by a stork then as they get older you say from kissing! Until they can handle the truth!

It kind of the way God reveals himself to us over time.. Children might not be able to understand or accpet even a simply form of what adults know.
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Naw, I got a problem with that too. See, parents are human and do things for reasons other than the benefit of the child, sometimes.

God, never lies...not even little "white lies".

As for me, well my friend Postmaster, I must have been lucky, because the day I asked where babies came from, my Dad sat me down and told me the whole story (I was six). Maybe that is why I don't worry about some stranger knocking on my door claiming to be my child...;)

v/r

Q
 
Postmaster said:
Nah disagree with that, you say they got bought by a stork then as they get older you say from kissing! Until they can handle the truth!

It kind of the way God reveals himself to us over time.. Children might not be able to understand or accpet even a simply form of what adults know.
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Fine! God did not have to give us details or to explain the physics to us children, but at least He could have gotten the sequence of events right. You know, say the same things but in the correct order. This would have been easy, right? At least, and God should know that, one presumes, when we grow up, and thus be able to read and understand what He had told us, we would see that He is right and infallible. We would say glory be to God who knew His creation. It would have been a great sign of the authenticity of the story and of the book that contained it. Unless, of course, God does not want us to believe in Him to start with, or He intentionally allowed the insertion of such a fallacious account in the bible in order to tell us that this book is not authentic, either in origin or at least not anymore.
 
The Lord said:
Fine! God did not have to give us details or to explain the physics to us children, but at least He could have gotten the sequence of events right. You know, say the same things but in the correct order. This would have been easy, right? At least, and God should know that, one presumes, when we grow up, and thus be able to read and understand what He had told us, we would see that He is right and infallible. We would say glory be to God who knew His creation. It would have been a great sign of the authenticity of the story and of the book that contained it. Unless, of course, God does not want us to believe in Him to start with, or He intentionally allowed the insertion of such a fallacious account in the bible in order to tell us that this book is not authentic, either in origin or at least not anymore.
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Is this...a temper tantrum? He disagreed with you...what is wrong with that, besides the apparent fact that in your mind, you know more than everyone else?

Take a chill pill "Lord"...
 
BigBang said:
now this is what really makes me sleep, every time i have a question and no one have the answere they come up with same stories like these, think deeper, not litrally, not well translation, or simply believe in it. why not others think deeper into the words. and come up with somthing more logical and scientific which more people can believe.
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OK, well I think if the truth makes you sleep, then God was write to hide it in different places. He does work in mysterious ways, supposedly. Just out of curiosity, did you even bother to look for a Kabbalistic explanation of the Genesis?

Not everything is literal, especially not the Bible, but just because everything isn't force-fed to you doesn't mean that the truth isn't there. I'm sure there are some quotes from the Bible about this, but I don't know where they are and they could be lies. ;)

Edit: If it really bothers you so much, you might consider another religion, one without gods that can lie to you. I think if you do, you'll find the problem is still there.
 
moseslmpg said:
OK, well I think if the truth makes you sleep, then God was write to hide it in different places. He does work in mysterious ways, supposedly. Just out of curiosity, did you even bother to look for a Kabbalistic explanation of the Genesis?

Not everything is literal, especially not the Bible, but just because everything isn't force-fed to you doesn't mean that the truth isn't there. I'm sure there are some quotes from the Bible about this, but I don't know where they are and they could be lies. ;)

Edit: If it really bothers you so much, you might consider another religion, one without gods that can lie to you. I think if you do, you'll find the problem is still there.
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the Bible is "literal"...think about it. :)
The messages contained within the writings might be other than literal...:eek: ;)

Is that what you meant?

v/r

Q
 
comon moseslmpg, stop making a fool of yourself. why if the God writes in his book as A and we should consider it as B, only because we think it should be B. (and also because we can see it clearly that A is actually a lie) why not we should rather change it to B we is the truth.

and by the way learning other religions is a must on every soul, only than he or she can be relly certain about his beliefs and be closer to God.
 
I think the safest point of view is the idea of progressive revelation found in such religion as the Baha'i faith.

It's obvious that the creation of man didn't happen the way it did in the Old Testament it says Eve was created from one of the ribs Adam. Science tells us women were before man. This is simply god given common sense which version you want to pick. The original story of the Old Testament came out of ancient Babylon and these stories where bought to the west by the exiled Jews. If God is infinite, the truth is always changing to us? Whats very important these ancient stroies explain that we have a God and I think when people disagree with science its this idea there trying to hold on to and for very good reasons, cause there is a God.
 
depends on the context of god. just because a religion is monotheistic, does not make a god comparable to the one true god. in christianity god is truth, love, and holy righteousness, therefore he is not a liar.
 
Postmaster said:
I think the safest point of view is the idea of progressive revelation found in such religion as the Baha'i faith.

It's obvious that the creation of man didn't happen the way it did in the Old Testament it says Eve was created from one of the ribs Adam. Science tells us women were before man. This is simply god given common sense which version you want to pick. The original story of the Old Testament came out of ancient Babylon and these stories where bought to the west by the exiled Jews. If God is infinite, the truth is always changing to us? Whats very important these ancient stroies explain that we have a God and I think when people disagree with science its this idea there trying to hold on to and for very good reasons, cause there is a God.
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As much as I admire science and the people who work in it, there are times when they can't remember whether they calculated trajectories of a multi million dollar space machine in imperial or metric units, as they watch it disappear near Mars...

Nothing is obvious Post. Science and religion are tools for man to use to try to understand his life. They are not the embodiment of life. Faith and knowledge are flip sides of the same coin.

The original stories of the Bible came from people and the proof or falsehood of such stories is apparently in the ground. Remember the story of Joseph and Pharoah? It took us until the spring of 2006 to discover that he actually existed, and actually lived in Egypt and actually bore the signat of the Pharoah (mixed with his own Hebrew name), around 1900 BCE and all this was done right in front of Egyptian security, standing there to make certain nothing of a Biblical nature was discovered...wonder why...:rolleyes:

No, the only liars and deceivers here on earth are men...not God.

v/r

Q
 
Well of course some of the stories of the bible are based on truth! It's part of Jewish history. Quahom1 I would say you’re a man on earth that is a deceiver! Would you really put your hand on your heart and accept the Old Testament’s version of the creation of man to Darwin’s? Put aside the fact that there a God for a moment. Which version is more believable? What are you holding onto? You’re a prisoner of your own mind.

The old testament was not wrote by a prophet, they are old folk lore stories early civilisation used with the best of philosophy at the time to understand why and where they came from in ancient Babylon! Today it is holding us back and irrelevant. Yeah it takes a certain amount of balls to disconnect with what you grew up with from what is learnt to be true.

Science explains how the heavens are made, religion explains how to get to heaven. So why should we believe the old testament version on the creation of man?
 
Postmaster said:
Well of course some of the stories of the bible are based on truth! It's part of Jewish history. Quahom1 I would say you’re a man on earth that is a deceiver! Would you really put your hand on your heart and accept the Old Testament’s version of the creation of man to Darwin’s? Put aside the fact that there a God for a moment. Which version is more believable? What are you holding onto? You’re a prisoner of your own mind.

The old testament was not wrote by a prophet, they are old folk lore stories early civilisation used with the best of philosophy at the time to understand why and where they came from in ancient Babylon! Today it is holding us back and irrelevant. Yeah it takes a certain amount of balls to disconnect with what you grew up with from what is learnt to be true.

Science explains how the heavens are made, religion explains how to get to heaven. So why should we believe the old testament version on the creation of man?
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Dear Postmaster,

My faith and religious belief, allows for Evolution and Creationism to coexist and compliment eachother, hence there is no decption on my part. And the fact that I can accept both versions with no guile, seems to place me at a distinct advantage over those who can only accept one or the other...like, perhaps you, for example... So, who is the prisoner of their own mind again?;)

A prophet serves two functions, one of which is to present the potential future, while the other is a vessel of the messages of God to Man.

Babylon is not the ancient civilization you portend it to be. It certainly is not the where for all, pivital point in the scheme of things earthly.

Darwin also admitted he made a mistake...in fact several of them, pertaining to the origins of life...And do you know what? He died with a question on his mind, and a concern for a small suffering creature.

Considering the expanse of the heavens, our knowledge of it is miniscule, and science has more questions than answers...unlike the Bible, which as no questions, only answers.

As for one's manhood determining one's courage (or foolhardiness), to break from their upbringing, I think not. I for one do not think with my "little head", but rather with my "big head"...

I do not need testicles to make decisions...only babies.

Why you chose to take me on, where no challenge was issued, is beyond me. But getting personal is not exactly your habit either...so I am wondering why?

v/r

Q
 
i didnt see god write the bible

he isnt a very good writer if he did!
 
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