Is the God we worship a lier ?

[Postmaster]

I didn't say they can't co-exist? If I did please point out the text for me!

But what I'm saying is, can a real Christian believe in evolution?

If he can, what else can he choose to accept and not accept as truth? And what gives him the religious authority to pick and choose?

And if you really believe in evolution, there is a 100'000 years of human history we were nothing but the same.. And only since civilisation and the ability to cultivate the land humans have been fighting in the past 8'000 years.. Religion and race being a catalyst. Within 8'000 years we've seen billions of people become infidels to each other! In the name of God.

Personally I see religious tolerance as a religion in itself.. Would benefit the times we live in too. I'd never deny God.

 

[cavalier]

..If he can, what else can he choose to accept and not accept as truth? And what gives him the religious authority to pick and choose?

I'm curious, what religion are you, and how did you pick that one?
I'm not sure a see the distiction between choosing between religions, and choosing within religions.

And if you really believe in evolution, there is a 100'000 years of human history we were nothing but the same

I'm not sure which period of 100'000 years you're talking about.[/quote]

 

[Postmaster]

I’m a born and practising Christian, but just say things to provoke responses plus I might misinterpret what other say as they do with me lol. One religion I view with curiosity is the Baha'i faith though.

 

[shadowman]

there is evidence that could be explained by theories having to do with evolution

for example

nordic people are often big and strong because this helped them survive the cold

african slave descendants in this country usually take well to athleticism because thats the kind of "specimens" that the slave owners picked and bred.

 

[17th Angel]

SUPER ! TELL ME THE TRUTH, would you worship a God who's a lier, and a deciver. no for me he created every thing alright but will never intend to use evil insticts.

also please do not tell your babies stories and lies about things they do not understand, just tell them a very simple model and tell them that they will understand it when the time will come or otherwise the very first thing they will learn about you the "dad or mom" will be that THEY ARE BIG LIERS.

aw mang, I just hate liers!!!! The way they tie you up! Disparaissent les reliures parties! Vous n'allez pas me lier!!!!!

 

[Muslimwoman]

as salaam aleykum

I like to think I am a faithful Muslim and I believe G-d created the heavens and earth. That is to say He created all the heavens, including the other universes. My personal belief is that G-d created everything just as He wanted it, so dinosours roamed the earth when G-d wished them to do so, G-d created man when He wished them to exist and G-d created the Big Bang. When G-d desires it to be, these things will cease to exist.

Can I explain this scientifically or logically? No but neither can I tell you what G-d is, He is beyond our imagination. I also believe it is wrong to assume G-d thinks as a human does and is limited to our mental and physical abilities.

As for saying G-d is a liar - shame on you. G-d is perfect therefore does not tell lies.

Salaam

 

[17th Angel]

As for saying G-d is a liar - shame on you. G-d is perfect therefore does not tell lies.

Salaam

lolz!$£"!$!£"$!£

god: Hey I'm perfect... I don't lie!!

Jim: Hey! He's got a point!! Perfect people don't lie....
Bob: True... How did you find out he was perfect?
Jim: Ah, he told me.....

 

[Postmaster]

I think it all depends on what a lie really is. I'd say a lie is saying something to deviate the truth for ones benefit. God probably won't deviate the truth for his benefit but he can never leave us with absolute truth because it is infinitely potent.

 

[paganprophet]

God is not a liar but the false god worshipped by Abrahamic believers is a liar and the father of them. All the Abrahamic writers lied yet God still exist despite them.

 

[Quahom1]

aw mang, I just hate liers!!!! The way they tie you up! Disparaissent les reliures parties! Vous n'allez pas me lier!!!!!

Je pense vous avez voulu dire que "Vous ne me trouverez pas un trompeur"
ou, Je croix que vous pense vous dites, "Vous ne trouverez pas un menteur"

You're right. hard to call you anything but honest in your thinking...

 

[Faithfulservant]

there is evidence that could be explained by theories having to do with evolution

for example

nordic people are often big and strong because this helped them survive the cold

african slave descendants in this country usually take well to athleticism because thats the kind of "specimens" that the slave owners picked and bred.

These are examples of micro evolution which is how Christians except evolution this is how species adapt to their environment..

macro evolution is when one species changes into another species over time.. there are no proven examples.

To fantasize it would be like this

an alligator turning into a duck

or a dog turning into a bird.

 

[Quahom1]

These are examples of micro evolution which is how Christians except evolution this is how species adapt to their environment..

macro evolution is when one species changes into another species over time.. there are no proven examples.

To fantasize it would be like this

an alligator turning into a duck

or a dog turning into a bird.

Actually what people are trying to present is that we are refined "apes". Only problem is they can't get around the tiny little fact that all "primates" carry 48 chromosomes...except man. He carries 46. To state that man evolved from primates is ludicrous, since evolution is an "enhancement" to the survival of a species, not a detractor.

Man, could not survive in the same environment as an ape, except for the fact that he can think and rationalize, and force nature to adapt to his needs. Apes adapt to nature, and just go with the flow (using sticks as tools to get termites is not an indicator of macro intelligence). Man goes against nature (every chance he gets). Definitely not conducive to evolutionary processes...

Even birds of the wing know not to go too high and starve themselves of oxygen. But man, put's nature in a container, steps into that same container, and literally shoots himself into the near vaccuum of space, on purpose! Man is the only animal that scoffs at, and attempts to conquer nature.

So, in short I agree with your assessment. We did not evolve. We arrived here, fully packaged. And unlike any other creature on earth, we fight with God and nature, tooth and nail. We think and contemplate abstracts, like our own death (while being perfectly healthy), and wonder what's on the other side...

We do something else no other animal even considers. We pity ourselves. (that is something I think animals have that is superior to us).

No, we definitely did not evolve from any critter on this planet.

v/r

Joshua

 

[paganprophet]

Boy, some people will do the most amazing intellectual gymnastics to defend an
indefensible position. E.g. defense of the alien human concept.

This is from Ask a Scientist:

"Question - Please could you advise me about the 48 chromosomes
in chips/apes and the 46 chromosomes in humans that it is now being
suggested is because humans split off from Chimps/apes at a point
in the evolutionary tree. Is it possible that the apparent match
and combination could be accounted for by any ohter reason than
that it was a split in a common ancestor? Is this the only possible
explanation?
---------------------------------------
There is indeed good genetic evidence to support this. The other
explanation is that the starting number is 46 and that the chromosomes split
in two, but that would mean that it happened independently many times in all
the other primates that have a chromosome number of 48. The probability of
that is very low, so it makes more mathematical sense that primates other
than humans have 48 and that in humans two chromosomes came together to make
our #2. One of the ways that geneticists pair chromosomes in a picture is
to look at the banding pattern. If you line up a human chromosome #2, and
the two chromosomes from chimpanzees that match it, it appears that these
chromosomes attached head to head (tails pointing out). Now that both the
human and chimpanzee genomes have been sequenced, comparing the sequences of
these chromosomes provides even better evidence of this. The ends of
chromosomes have stretches of repetetive DNA called telomeres. These seem
to be "caps" on the ends of the chromosomes that prevent the DNA from
"unraveling". This telomeric DNA has a specific sequence. When studying
the middle of chromosome number 2 of humans, there is DNA that has the
signature of telomeric DNA on both sides of the centromere, which the
"pinched" portion of a chromosome. Why would telomeric DNA be found here?
The explanation that makes the most sense is that two shorter chromosomes
joined head to head. The fact that chimpanzees and humans have different
numbers of chromosomes immediately causes a reproductive barrier and would
be an immediate speciation event.

vanhoeck
====================================================================
Evidence suggests that humans evolved from a common ancestor of apes and
human by the fusion of two pairs of chromosomes that reduced the chromosome
number from 48 to 46. How this happened is not known.

Ron Baker, Ph.D.
====================================================================
We could always come up with all kinds of fantastic explanations. As a
rule, scientists work with the simplest explanations first, because
simple explanations require us to make few assumptions. This principle
is known as "Occam's Razor". For the same reasons, scientists always
look for explanations that are based on natural, observable, testable
phenomena.
In the case of the striking similarities between human and chimp
genomes, by far the simplest explanation anybody has ever proposed is
that humans and chimps share a common ancestor, and a fairly recent one
at that. Because nobody has ever produced compelling evidence that this
explanation is wrong, it is the one that scientists tentatively accept.
If such evidence were to emerge, then scientists would look to modify
the explanation.

C. Perkins"



Instead of seeing the obvious, the extremely close relationship genetically
we humans share with chimps, the defenders of ancient myths blind themselves
to the way the real world works--God's Creation.

 

[Quahom1]

Boy, some people will do the most amazing intellectual gymnastics to defend an
indefensible position...
We could always come up with all kinds of fantastic explanations. As a
rule, scientists work with the simplest explanations first, because
simple explanations require us to make few assumptions. This principle
is known as "Occam's Razor". For the same reasons, scientists always
look for explanations that are based on natural, observable, testable
phenomena.
In the case of the striking similarities between human and chimp
genomes, by far the simplest explanation anybody has ever proposed is
that humans and chimps share a common ancestor, and a fairly recent one
at that. Because nobody has ever produced compelling evidence that this
explanation is wrong, it is the one that scientists tentatively accept.
If such evidence were to emerge, then scientists would look to modify
the explanation.

C. Perkins"



Instead of seeing the obvious, the extremely close relationship genetically
we humans share with chimps, the defenders of ancient myths blind themselves
to the way the real world works--God's Creation.

Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle...no wait, it's the other way around, I think...

I didn't know that, thanks for the insight.

v/r

Joshua

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, paganprophet, and welcome to CR!

Boy, some people will do the most amazing intellectual gymnastics to defend an indefensible position.

Let us remember this, please.

"Question - Please could you advise me about the 48 chromosomes
in chips/apes and the 46 chromosomes in humans that it is now being
suggested is because humans split off from Chimps/apes at a point
in the evolutionary tree. Is it possible that the apparent match
and combination could be accounted for by any ohter reason than
that it was a split in a common ancestor? Is this the only possible
explanation?
---------------------------------------
...it makes more mathematical sense that primates other than humans have 48 and that in humans two chromosomes came together to make our #2...The fact that chimpanzees and humans have different numbers of chromosomes immediately causes a reproductive barrier and would be an immediate speciation event.

vanhoeck

Since the balance of your post hinges on this statement, I will go no further at this time. What you are suggesting is the old "mule" problem, correct? That is, if one could breed two different but related species, as in for example a horse and a donkey, you get a sterile mule. Most times you would be correct. Even among equines however, there are well known anomalies regarding this...in other words "different numbers of chromosomes immediately causes a reproductive barrier" is not a given. There is a wild horse of the Steppes, perhaps you have seen the famous cave paintings at Lascaux and other places? It has a strange, difficult to pronounce name (for me, considering they are named for a Polish general), something like Prezlewski's horse. This wild horse has two more genes than the standard horse we all know and love, yet they freely interbreed, and have fertile offspring.

In short, as of this point, I'm afraid the presumption that "the fact that chimpanzees and humans have different numbers of chromosomes immediately causes a reproductive barrier" is a bit unsubstantiated. Truth is, it is ethics and law that prevent us from finding out with any certainty. There are researchers that suggest humans and bonobos (the line of chimps most like humans) may indeed be capable of interbreeding. Whether the offspring would be viable is another question altogether. Now, breeding preferences are an issue, I can't think of any bonobos in their right mind that would want to breed with a human. But the genetics are certainly similar enough that an human / ape hybrid in theory is a very real possibility.

Especially in light of the human-neandertal hybrid found in Lapedo, Portugal, a few years back.

So, to return to your original statement:

"Boy, some people will do the most amazing intellectual gymnastics to defend an indefensible position."

Seems to me dogmatic fundamentalism gets preached outside the realm of religion sometimes, too.

I'll be only too happy to point you to a series of threads where this and related subjects were already fleshed out at length, if you would like.

Pleasure meeting you, see you around the boards!

 

[Pathless]

Right when we start the old testment we get into a lot of trouble and it lasts till the end. unless we keep on ignoring whatever is written. but the fact is that we read bible as a devine revelation and how can we ignore when God starts telling lies right from the start about the creation of this universe till the end with such very strange stories about the end of it. just imagine. if i cant trust the words which we are told are the direct revelations and the most holy one, what can we trust than.

George Carlin has the answer: "Joe Pesci."

 

[Pathless]

also please do not tell your babies stories and lies about things they do not understand, just tell them a very simple model and tell them that they will understand it when the time will come or otherwise the very first thing they will learn about you the "dad or mom" will be that THEY ARE BIG LIERS.

So I shouldn't tell my kids about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? I'm so confused.

 

[Muslimwoman]

So I shouldn't tell my kids about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? I'm so confused.

Shhhhh don't mention the tooth fairy, just tell your kids you are going to rip their tooth out, yes it will hurt, yes it will bleed and then you will chuck the tooth in the bin and keep your fingers crossed another one grows. Good luck getting your kids to sleep.