Are there contradictions in the Bible?

[Terrence]

the face of the manifestation of god presence (the burning bush), such as the face of the mountain, and the face of danger.

Nice!

 

[Student1975]

Exo 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Men dont speak to eachother through burning bushes nor is that what "face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend" means.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

as the holy spirit burned and called moses over with its glory, the word of god revealed to him god the father and his presense made the ground holy and their he spoke to the living god. as the voice of god eminated from the bush, moses did speak to god face to face as best a man could interface with god without being destroyed by his holiness.

 

[taijasi]

Perhaps it would be well to study the Aaronic Blessing. There is a deep Mystery contained therein. Student1975, I believe you have summarized it nicely when you posted:

Let's assume there is a celestial Creator. That we cant endure him in his full essence is not hard to believe (Exo 33:20). That he can show himself in some manner we can endure is not hard to believe either (Exo 33:11).
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[Caimanson]

LOL, this is going to be a long thread!
I won't waste my precious typing time yet

 

[Student1975]

as the holy spirit burned and called moses over with its glory, the word of god revealed to him god the father and his presense made the ground holy and their he spoke to the living god. as the voice of god eminated from the bush, moses did speak to god face to face as best a man could interface with god without being destroyed by his holiness.

What I am basically is saying is that when the Bible says God is seen and God is not seen, the solution should be found in what 'seen' can mean, not what kind of God we are talking about. I read Exo 33:11 and it says a face to face conversation was taking place, like men talk to eachother. It might be a difficult saying, but I dont think any interpretation makes the saying easier. Exo 24:10 says the elders saw God, that too is a difficult saying UNLESS we allow God to manifest himself in different ways, perhaps sometimes as an angel. Turn to Gen 31:29-31. Another example. Here we have Jacob wrestling with God, seeing God's face and surviving (a reference to the teaching that you can NOT survive it). Hosea 12:4 calls God an angel and it's up to interpretation how to reconcile all this. I dont mind if God manifested himself as an angel or if the angel acted on God's behalf. I just know I would not think of the later if I did not have Hosea 12:4.. The problem I believe is limitations in the language and the explenations in the text. That's why we have to interpret etc. I don't believe in the Eternal generation doctrine or a literal Logos Christology, so I am not looking much for the Trinity in the Old Testament.

Thanks taijasi

 

[Faithfulservant]

Of course there are contradictions....

A)
Genesis 26:2 "And the LORD appeared unto him, and said"

Exodus 33:11: "And the Lord spake to moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."

contradicts

John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time."


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I don't think that these contradictions can be explained as happenings in different periods of a story or that they mean something else from what is apparent.

This isnt a contradiction... The Lord spoken of here is the manifestation of Jesus Christ.. Hes all over the OT. If you read the last verse it actually says no man has seen the FATHER at any time. There IS a difference lol..

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Answering from the basis of my faith, no, I do not believe there are any contradictions in the Bible. I believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God ... but I realize that is my own personal revelation.

Intellectually, I realize that there are difficulties that take some effort to resolve. I am inclined to think that the Bible is more like a detective story than a text book! Initially, I was offended when someone suggested the Bible is like a jigsaw puzzle, but now I see some merit in that comparison.

One example is the different accounts in the Gospels of the events on the morning of the resurrection. I have seen several attempts at harmonizing the Gospels' accounts, but I am not sure which is the most accurate.

I guess it depends on the level of semantical minutia one employs. If it's necessary to one's belief system that every text be 100% overlayable on every other text then one might need an extra strong dose of blind faith to make it all work. I have a general disdain for hanging dogma on the various turns of a phrase in individual texts. I think it's silly and ignores the larger context. I guess everyone has to decide where the cut-off point is on literalism when it comes to the Bible.

Chris

 

[kenod]

I think the opinions expressed in this thread so far show that for some people it is not too difficult to reconcile the so-called contradictions in the Bible.

I don't think it necessitates blind faith, but is does require a good understanding of the complete Bible, a good understanding of language, and the ability to reason.

With regard to seeing God, just ask yourself, can anyone see you? Well, yes and no. Actually they can only see the human form in which you are housed - when "you" are somewhere else, that form will lie a-mouldering in the grave!

 

[Dor]

This isnt a contradiction... The Lord spoken of here is the manifestation of Jesus Christ.. Hes all over the OT. If you read the last verse it actually says no man has seen the FATHER at any time. There IS a difference lol..

Cheers. She must have seen the earlier link.

 

[rasifnajeeb]

Phew !!!

I didn't expect so many responses overnight...

This thread could be the most popular one, if I start listing down the contradictions one by one and then leave it for dissection.

Genesis 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

Now, please explain - what face to face mean?
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Some people reject God because they can find no evidence for Him, which satisfies both their hearts and minds simultaneously. Then there are others who accept God on the basis of emotional or irrational reasons which satisfy their hearts, but leave their minds unsure.


The many contradictions show that the Bible is not free from errors. However, a contradiction is not the only form of error. One is able to detect these errors, because of the presence of another contradictory statement. Even if a contradictory statement does not appear anywhere else, a deviation from the original fact remains an error.
When the Bible as a book, has so many errors, is it not possible that there are more errors, which cannot be detected? The verses, which support Trinity; and the verses, which talk about salvation, could be among these erroneous ones (only a chance). This is not to say, that the entire Bible has errors. It surely has verses, which are from God himself.
The big question facing a Christian is – “How to differentiate between these?”

 

[cavalier]

Sure. Moses never saw God's face. That not mentioned or implied anywhere in the text. Rather, what occurs is Moses seeing God revealing himself in smoke, burning bush, cloud, etc., face to face.

OK

As for who was the blame for sin, Adam or Eve, Dor gives a nice answer.

Yes, he does.

 

[kenod]

Genesis 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Now, please explain - what face to face mean?

God appeared many times in many different forms in the Old Testament.

Joshua also saw God face to face ... as much as I could see you face to face. I can only see the face of the temporary human form in which you dwell.

Joshua 5:13-15​

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?”

So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?”

Then the Commander of the LORD’s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so.

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[rasifnajeeb]

Exodus 33:20: "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live."

Genesis 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."


When one statement says - "cannot see face" and the other says "saw face", there is no temporary or permanent forms here.

I would have agreed to your argument had one statement been "cannot see me" and the other statement - "saw face" or vice versa.

 

[kenod]

Exodus 33:20: "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live."
Genesis 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
When one statement says - "cannot see face" and the other says "saw face", there is no temporary or permanent forms here.
I would have agreed to your argument had one statement been "cannot see me" and the other statement - "saw face" or vice versa.

God is invisible, so "seen God face to face" simply means that he experienced the visual and aural presence of God. There is only a contradiction there if you insist that your interpretation of the words is the only one possible. Quite obviously, it is not an intellectual or spiritual difficulty for many of us who find the words used very aptly describe what occured.

 

[rasifnajeeb]

I am sorry, but I have not interpreted anything. Please see my post. I have just stated the two conflicting verses. It is obvious that there is some problem and you have tried interpreting it to show that there is no problem.

"But for the sake of argument", I agree with you. It might have been meant to be the way you have explained.

Now what about the following statements.

Ezekiel 18:20, Deuteronomy 24:16, Jeremiah 31:29-30, Ezekiel 18:1-9 (God speaks and emphatically declares that no human will be held accountable for their father's sin. No human can inherit sin)


Romans 4:2, Romans 5:12, Romans 5:14, 1Corintians 15:20 (Paul speaks and claims that all mankind inherited the sin of their father Adam)


Why do Christians only subscribe to the latter theory even though the contradictory also exist in the Bible. And for added measure that contradictory statement is made by God.

 

[kenod]

I am sorry, but I have not interpreted anything. Please see my post. I have just stated the two conflicting verses. It is obvious that there is some problem and you have tried interpreting it to show that there is no problem.

I acknowledge it is obvious that there is some problem for you. However, it seems clear to me that the Scriptures show that when God spoke from a visible form, it was called "face to face".

Numbers 14:13-14
Moses said to the Lord, “Then the Egyptians will hear about it! By your power you brought these people up from among them.
And they will tell the inhabitants of this land about it. They have already heard that you, O Lord, are with these people and that you, O Lord, have been seen face to face, that your cloud stays over them, and that you go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.


Exodus 33:9-11
As Moses went into the tent, the pillar of cloud would come down and stay at the entrance, while the LORD spoke with Moses.
Whenever the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance to the tent, they all stood and worshiped, each at the entrance to his tent. The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.



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Now what about the following statements.

Ezekiel 18:20, Deuteronomy 24:16, Jeremiah 31:29-30, Ezekiel 18:1-9 (God speaks and emphatically declares that no human will be held accountable for their father's sin. No human can inherit sin)


Romans 4:2, Romans 5:12, Romans 5:14, 1Corintians 15:20 (Paul speaks and claims that all mankind inherited the sin of their father Adam)


Why do Christians only subscribe to the latter theory even though the contradictory also exist in the Bible. And for added measure that contradictory statement is made by God.

We all suffer the consequences of the sins of others (eg global warming) but no person is held personally accountable before God for the sins of another.

We are not judged because of what Adam and Eve did, we are judged on the basis of what we do. We all make an individual choice.

The good news of the Gospel is that it does not matter if we are a sinner or not, the price has already been paid. If we love God, we will not want to be separated from him by sin.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

the sin of adam and eve causes us to work and toil the ground for food, for women to have pain in childbirth, our loss of innocence, lives limited in years until death, and a spiritual disconnect from God unless we are spiritually born again.

the sin of past transgressions is likened unto a ripple in a pool of water. sins that we committ not only effect us, but effect those around us, and after us. often times difficult to undue the damage, such as slavery, or alcoholism, or violence.

the personal sin against god, is that which is a personal decision to go against what god desires for us. it can be a sin to desecrate your body, or it can be a sin to think evil thoughts, or it can be a sin to deny the son of god or blashpheme the holy spirit and condemn your soul. sometimes these sins can only be known to god as their are deep within ourselves and not apparent.

 

[Faithfulservant]

In order to understand this you have to understand the trinity... there are 3 manifestations of the Godhead... The Father who NOONE has seen at anytime... The Son or the Word who has been seen since the garden of Eden in various forms... The Spirit who has been seen as a Dove.. If you cannot grasp this you will not grasp how the bibe is NOT contradicting itself.. .

 

[Faithfulservant]

I am sorry, but I have not interpreted anything. Please see my post. I have just stated the two conflicting verses. It is obvious that there is some problem and you have tried interpreting it to show that there is no problem.

"But for the sake of argument", I agree with you. It might have been meant to be the way you have explained.

Now what about the following statements.

Ezekiel 18:20, Deuteronomy 24:16, Jeremiah 31:29-30, Ezekiel 18:1-9 (God speaks and emphatically declares that no human will be held accountable for their father's sin. No human can inherit sin)


Romans 4:2, Romans 5:12, Romans 5:14, 1Corintians 15:20 (Paul speaks and claims that all mankind inherited the sin of their father Adam)


Why do Christians only subscribe to the latter theory even though the contradictory also exist in the Bible. And for added measure that contradictory statement is made by God.

Honey.. There are whole websites dedicated to proving the bible wrong by saying it has contradictions... amazingly there are the same amount of websites countering it by showing how they ARENT contradictions... You can find them yourself if you really wanted to