HELL or HECK ?

[Quahom1]

No, it's definitely Judaism. The only three that show up distinctly in Christianity are Abaddon, Sheol, and Gehenna. I don't know the Islamic Hells, but I know one that correlates to Gehenna is called Jahannam.

You know, the Encyclopedia of Hell by Miriam Van Scott is a pretty good source of information for different interpretations of Hell. They're not all directly biblical, but many of them are based on the biblical accounts, along with the references to pop culture, etc. It probably won't answer any deep questions, but there it is for people who have the interest.

Sheol is the grave. Gehenna is interesting, in that it corrolates with the garbage pit of the same name out side of Jeruselem. That was where animal carcasses, refuse, and some remains were dumped, and there was a constant burning occuring deep within the garbage. The stench was unbelievable. However, the description of Gehenna as being like the hell of torment was a pitance of what the actual Hell is allegedly like.

Abaddon is the realm of the dead.

These are not levels of hell, but descriptors of different concepts. Sheol is the physical grave where the body corrupts (decays). Gehenna was an attempt to describe what torment awaited those who were lawless and evil. Abaddon described the waiting place of the dead.

When the spirit seperated from the body the two end up in different places (for lack of a better term). The final place is where no one wants to ultimately end up.

 

[moseslmpg]

Sheol, Abaddon, and Gehenna are all different Hells in Judaism. Gehenna's name came from the valley of Hinnom, sheol supposedly means grave, and abaddon means destruction, but I wasn't talking about their names.

Actually, I just found out that it comes from Qabalah, not Judaism per se. Likewise there are 7 Earths and 7 Heavens there.

 

[Quahom1]

Sheol, Abaddon, and Gehenna are all different Hells in Judaism. Gehenna's name came from the valley of Hinnom, sheol supposedly means grave, and abaddon means destruction, but I wasn't talking about their names.

Actually, I just found out that it comes from Qabalah, not Judaism per se. Likewise there are 7 Earths and 7 Heavens there.

Right, it is the garbage pit there. Nor are the rest different "hells" perse, but conditions of death.

 

[moseslmpg]

They are hells, just not in the same sense that Christians think of hell. Gehenna corresponds more closely to Purgatory than Hell in Christianity. The actual word Hell comes from hel, meaing to cover, but that doesn't mean Hell is just when you are covered by linens at burial. Armageddon is not some mountain, it is the final battle between good and evil, in the same way the Gehenna is not Gei Hinnom but the first hell.

 

[Quahom1]

They are hells, just not in the same sense that Christians think of hell. Gehenna corresponds more closely to Purgatory than Hell in Christianity. The actual word Hell comes from hel, meaing to cover, but that doesn't mean Hell is just when you are covered by linens at burial. Armageddon is not some mountain, it is the final battle between good and evil, in the same way the Gehenna is not Gei Hinnom but the first hell.

My friend, I can assure you from a Catholic perspective, Gehenna is not purgatory. And I didn't think we were discussing the Germanic version of the word so much as the original variations of death. And Gehenna is a refuse pit that constantly burns and stinks (a land fill of old if you will).

Armageddon is a Valley...not a mountain.

 

[moseslmpg]

My friend, I can assure you from a Catholic perspective, Gehenna is not purgatory. And I didn't think we were discussing the Germanic version of the word so much as the original variations of death. And Gehenna is a refuse pit that constantly burns and stinks (a land fill of old if you will).

Armageddon is a Valley...not a mountain.

Gehenna is a hell, it is an allusion to the valley of Hinnom. I was saying the Judaic version of Gehenna is like Purgatory, not the Christian perspective is like Purgatory. I was trying to show you that you are committing an etymological fallacy.

Also, armageddon is the final battle, not a valley or a mountain. It is based, however, on Har Megido, that is Mount Megiddo. Technically a mount is not a mountain, but you get the point.

 

[mee]

If you dont repent and put your trust in the real Jesus (not the JW version) and not in your own good works, you will find out that there is a place where the worm never dies and the smoke of unregenerated sinners will go up forever and ever. Please consider looking at something that isnt JW based. You're eternal life depends on it.

yes the smoke from false religion , ( manmade litral hellfire doctrine) will smoke forever , as the bible tells me .

(Revelation 19:3) And right away for the second time they said: "Praise Jah, YOU people! And the smoke from her goes on ascending forever and ever."....................... yes, Babylon the great (the world empire of false religion ) is on the way out for good . yes, accurate bible based knowledge leads to everlasting life. as the real Jesus tells us in John 17;3​

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

 

[mee]

(Ge·hen´na) [Gr. form of the Heb. Geh Hin·nom´, "Valley of Hinnom"].
The Biblical use of Gehenna as a symbol corresponds to that of "the lake of fire" in the book of Revelation.—Re 20:14, 15;
Historical background: The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s "whole body" into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.
At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, "second death."

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Yes, but what is heck? No one has answered that yet.

Thats a topic all its own inlove.

 

[Quahom1]

Gehenna is a hell, it is an allusion to the valley of Hinnom. I was saying the Judaic version of Gehenna is like Purgatory, not the Christian perspective is like Purgatory. I was trying to show you that you are committing an etymological fallacy.

In the Scriptures, however, “Gehenna” (“hell,” AV)—all incredible myths to the contrary notwithstanding—does not speak of “the place of the eternal torments of the damned.” Instead, it refers to an actual place on earth, namely, the valley (or “ravine”) of Hinnom (Neh.11:30) in the land of Israel. The ravine of Hinnom is a valley to the southwest of Jerusalem (“the ravine of the son of Hinnom”; Joshua 15:8). The Hebrew phrase gê (“ravine of”) hinnom became geenna in Greek, whence Gehenna in Latin and English.

By Jesus' time, the Hinnom Valley (Ge-Hinnom in Hebrew) was know by its Latin translation, Gehenna (see Matt. 5:22, 29; 10:28; 8:9; 23:33; Mark 9:43, 48; James 3:6). Like other religious ideas that were portrayed in concrete images, Gehenna became the Hebrew picture of hell. It formed an appropriate image for the eternal burning and decay of hell, where worms were said to never die (Mark 9:48).
As ancient Israelites emptied their garbage and sewer into the Hinnom Valley each day, they were given a vivid image of hell and an important reminder of the price for disobeying God's commands.

Also, armageddon is the final battle, not a valley or a mountain. It is based, however, on Har Megido, that is Mount Megiddo. Technically a mount is not a mountain, but you get the point.

In Revelations 16 there is a description of the end of the world, and the last battle being fought at Armageddon between the forces of good and the forces of evil. The text: (16:16): "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon".

In Hebrew the place can be interpreted as "Har-Megiddo", where Har is mountain or hill, and Megiddo is the ancient site of Tell Megiddo. The ancient city of Megiddo is located 18 miles south east of Haifa, and is located at a strategic entrance or valley through the eastern Carmel hills where an ancient trade road (Via Maris). In this site an important City once flourished, and mentioned in the Old Testament as a strong City that played an important role in the history of the Biblical Israel.

The hills behind the Tell (mound) are in the south, right next to the Tell. These hills can be called Har-Meggedon, the source of the name of Armaggedon. The hills actually are a lower eastern extension of Mount Carmel. This section is called Menashe mountains, and they continue on towards the great depression of the Jordan valley. This mountain ridge presented a problem in ancient times, since the passage south had to climb up the mountains. There were only few passages, and Megiddo was one of them - a sort of gate keeper.

From this perspective, and since I have been stationed in Haifa (in 1999) and went to Megiddo, I fail to see the "fallacy" I'm allegedly under.

 

[moseslmpg]

In the Scriptures, however, “Gehenna” (“hell,” AV)—all incredible myths to the contrary notwithstanding—does not speak of “the place of the eternal torments of the damned.” Instead, it refers to an actual place on earth, namely, the valley (or “ravine”) of Hinnom (Neh.11:30) in the land of Israel. The ravine of Hinnom is a valley to the southwest of Jerusalem (“the ravine of the son of Hinnom”; Joshua 15:8). The Hebrew phrase gê (“ravine of”) hinnom became geenna in Greek, whence Gehenna in Latin and English.

I never said Gehenna referred to a place of eternal torment of the damned, I said it is more like Purgatory in the Jewish tradition. When they say Gehenna they do not mean the actual valley where people were sacrificed, they mean the 1st hell. Like you say, it became the Hebrew picture of Hell, not the Hebrew picture of a landfill to dump trash.

In Revelations 16 there is a description of the end of the world, and the last battle being fought at Armageddon between the forces of good and the forces of evil. The text: (16:16): "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon".

In Hebrew the place can be interpreted as "Har-Megiddo", where Har is mountain or hill, and Megiddo is the ancient site of Tell Megiddo. The ancient city of Megiddo is located 18 miles south east of Haifa, and is located at a strategic entrance or valley through the eastern Carmel hills where an ancient trade road (Via Maris). In this site an important City once flourished, and mentioned in the Old Testament as a strong City that played an important role in the history of the Biblical Israel.

The hills behind the Tell (mound) are in the south, right next to the Tell. These hills can be called Har-Meggedon, the source of the name of Armaggedon. The hills actually are a lower eastern extension of Mount Carmel. This section is called Menashe mountains, and they continue on towards the great depression of the Jordan valley. This mountain ridge presented a problem in ancient times, since the passage south had to climb up the mountains. There were only few passages, and Megiddo was one of them - a sort of gate keeper.

From this perspective, and since I have been stationed in Haifa (in 1999) and went to Megiddo, I fail to see the "fallacy" I'm allegedly under.

OK, Har Megido is a hill, not a valley, else it would probably be called Gei Megido. Check Wikipedia or the Jewish Encyclopedia. Megido is a mount of hill that overlooks a valley.

I wasn't aware that the final battle was also to be fought at that place, but I do know that armageddon is also the name of the final battle as well as the location.

Anyway, regardless of where you have lived in the past, the fallacy I was referring to, specifically in the case of Gehenna, is assuming that it is merely the valley it is named after based on its etymology. It may have developed from the valley, but it is a "hell" now, whose name refers to the valley. And to be clear, this is not the same kind of Hell pictured in Christianity, yet it is a hell nevertheless.

 

[Quahom1]

I never said Gehenna referred to a place of eternal torment of the damned, I said it is more like Purgatory in the Jewish tradition. When they say Gehenna they do not mean the actual valley where people were sacrificed, they mean the 1st hell. Like you say, it became the Hebrew picture of Hell, not the Hebrew picture of a landfill to dump trash.

I just gave you what the Jewish tradition considers Gehenna, and it isn't a picture of "purgatory". I took that information right from Jewish references.

OK, Har Megido is a hill, not a valley, else it would probably be called Gei Megido. Check Wikipedia or the Jewish Encyclopedia. Megido is a mount of hill that overlooks a valley.

I wasn't aware that the final battle was also to be fought at that place, but I do know that armageddon is also the name of the final battle as well as the location.

It is a valley position, that controls who passes from south to north (from Egypt to Assyria). You are not registering what is actual geographical fact, based on historical fact. The battle you refer to is not Biblically called Armageddon. The Final Conflict is taken place at Armageddon. Again, you are not registering the facts as presented both in Revelation and in secular history.

Anyway, regardless of where you have lived in the past, the fallacy I was referring to, specifically in the case of Gehenna, is assuming that it is merely the valley it is named after based on its etymology. It may have developed from the valley, but it is a "hell" now, whose name refers to the valley. And to be clear, this is not the same kind of Hell pictured in Christianity, yet it is a hell nevertheless.

Let us ask the resident Jews their take on Gehenna, since you refuse to read what I presented as a Jewish representation, taken from Jewish references, about what "Gehenna" means to them. It isn't purgatory. It is a stinky worm infested, unquenchable firepit of a place, representing a place in death that no one wants to be in.

The one in fault is not apparently, me.

 

[moseslmpg]

I just gave you what the Jewish tradition considers Gehenna, and it isn't a picture of "purgatory". I took that information right from Jewish references.

Scroll down to Judgement and see there it says that some people only stay in Gehenna for a year and that only three types of people never come out. It is a purgatory in the sense that the punishment is not eternal and is equal to the sin that was committed. I read somewhere that it is supposed to cleanse people of unforgiven sins.

It is a valley position, that controls who passes from south to north (from Egypt to Assyria). You are not registering what is actual geographical fact, based on historical fact. The battle you refer to is not Biblically called Armageddon. The Final Conflict is taken place at Armageddon. Again, you are not registering the facts as presented both in Revelation and in secular history.

Ok it might not Biblically state that the battle itself is called Armageddon but that is the consensus of most people. It's even in the dictionary. In this case, the example was a bad one because I didn't realize it said the battle happens at Armageddon in the Bible. As for the geography, all I am saying is that Tel Megido, the place that Armageddon is based on is not a valley. It may be in a valley, but it is obviously a hill or mount.

Let us ask the resident Jews their take on Gehenna, since you refuse to read what I presented as a Jewish representation, taken from Jewish references, about what "Gehenna" means to them. It isn't purgatory. It is a stinky worm infested, unquenchable firepit of a place, representing a place in death that no one wants to be in.

The one in fault is not apparently, me.

I was saying that Gehenna does not mean an landfill anymore, it means Hell. It is a word used to refer to Hell, not the landfill valley area, regardless of its etymology. It's all in that Jewish Encyclopedia article.

 

[Quahom1]

We shall agree to disagree.

 

[moseslmpg]

On what? We've almost agreed on Gehenna, even though we are at polar opposites on Har Megido. I think I am just not clear enough with my words.

I guess it isn't really important and I was getting tired anyway...

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Reading all those posts by moses and Q reminded me of Rocky 1 2 and 3. Sheesh. enough already.