War and Pieces

Kindest Regards, Dor!
Dor said:
I agree with this also in a way.
No offence to anyone but I belief he has plans for Israel soon. That is one reason I dont jive with Mee and his 144,000 JWs.
I belief the 2 witness and the 144,000 all have to do with literal Israel in times to come.
I am in agreement with you here, by what I understand of Revelations, except that I count no more than 36,000 "Jews." Don't know for sure where the rest are coming from, but I don't see them coming from that source, not if the words are true (and I believe they are). Admittedly, Revelations is a very difficult book to dissect and digest. Few other books in the Bible are so oblique.
 
juantoo3 said:
War and Pieces

With apologies straight up to Tolstoy, or whoever it was that wrote that huge bound excuse for a doorstop.

I jest of course, I suspect there may actually be someone, somewhere, sometime, that actually read it through, cover to cover. I seriously wonder if they are a part of any living generation, but beyond being an anachronism for "wordy" and the Jeopardy answer for "the longest book ever written"…(what is War and Peace), the book really has no meaning to me. It isn't on my short list of must reads, it isn't even on my long list of must reads. But it's a classic, or so "they" tell me…*sigh*…

Um, I uh read War and Peace, in Russian. :eek: Well, I really wanted to get inside the Russian mind of the times in order to learn the language. (it took me four years). :rolleyes:
 
Quahom1 said:
Um, I uh read War and Peace, in Russian. :eek: Well, I really wanted to get inside the Russian mind of the times in order to learn the language. (it took me four years). :rolleyes:

Q... you have a bit of masochism in you....Did you get get anything out of it? hehe
 
Faithfulservant said:
Q... you have a bit of masochism in you....Did you get get anything out of it? hehe

An education in colloqueal Russian...:eek:
 
I like your OP Juan. Terrence really got you fired up didn't he? This is what, three, maybe four really excellent posts from you because an intollerant fundie came along and forced you to stand up and say something. I'd say he was a tremendous blessing to us all! God working in mysterious ways, again! Then again, I may be reading this entirely wrong.

Chris
 
Interesting thread, juan.

I kept trying to read that book, but I don't think I ever did finish. Maybe I should have tried the Russian version. :)

juantoo3 said:
Now, I can't speak directly of Islam, but I do understand there is a close historic connection regarding not only Ishmael, but also the wife of Moses, the daughter of Jethro. (OH, please forgive this humble servant, her name escapes me just now)

Zipporah? One of the seven daughters of Jethro, the Midianite priest?

And the poignant accounts of both Abraham and Isaac, and of Hagar and Ishmael have always left me wondering about some of the same things you have brought up here.

InPeace,
InLove
 
Kindest Regards, wil!
wil said:
Namaste all and 123 for your thoughts and comments.

I think this is exactly the exploration that leads to a higher understanding of the scriptures, of all holy books, of G-d, of Jesus, and oneself. And I think it extemely valuable.
Thank you for your kind words.

Higher understanding is probably a noble quest in itself, but it really hasn't factored into my search.

Something tells me that there is something wrong in holding hatred, especially undeserved hatred, in our hearts. It is one thing to have a bias, an unknown or unrecognized bias (even prejudice) without ill intent. This in itself creates enough problems and misunderstandings. But the kind of undeserved biased hatred that festers and smolders...that is the fuel that feeds murder and war. That hatred, that if anything, could be said to be hell on earth. And if that hatred is not of G-d, how do we overcome it?

I have said it before, "can't we all just get along" is impractical, *but* it is a noble aspiration. Humanity will never accomplish peace by alone, but that is no excuse not to try. We (collective sense) are far too different in our ideologies to expect total acceptance of each other, and the idea of forcing everyone into the same box only aggravates the problem. (Want Armageddon, figuratively? try forcing that on the whole world at once...)

Tolerance is tricky, tolerance is tough. It means having to look beyond what makes one uncomfortable, because others find it comfortable. Not that I agree, if I agreed I most likely would participate. Because I disagree, I lead my life in a manner different than another might. And that's OK. I don't answer to this other person for my actions, I answer to G-d. The other person does not answer to me for their actions, they answer to G-d. G-d will sort to whole mess out in the end, of that I am most certain. I can share my beliefs with others, although to be fair I should allow them to share their beliefs with me. It is possible I might learn a thing or two. Sharing is not the same as insisting, judging, demanding. What is shared is shared with the understanding it might not be accepted. That's OK. I plant seeds. No matter how much I water, no matter how much I prune, no matter how much I weed, no matter how much I fertilize...the sprouting and growing of the seed is up to G-d. I cannot force a seed to grow, and push come to shove G-d can do the job just fine without me. Some seeds are just not meant to grow.

I see CR as a vanguard of sorts. I hear a lot of people, of many stripes and persuasions, lamenting how the world just can't seem to get along. Of course, they aren't very quick to try to stand in the front ranks and try, either. They are talkers, not doers. Then there are those who paint rosy eyed scenarios of harmonic balances and how the world is growing so lovey-dovey...who then lambast anybody who doesn't view the world quite the same as they do as narrow minded fundamentalist bigots. Ironic...:rolleyes:

I want CR to be in the front ranks, leading the charge, showing the world that peaceful interaction between faiths is not a pipe-dream, not a fool's hope, that it can be done. That we know because we are DOING. China cat has a basic point about the coffee clutch, even if I disagree in the details. The world simply will never be a coffee clutch. There's too many soda drinkers, too many tea drinkers, and too many that insist water is the *only* drink. Not counting those that stagger in under the influence of even harder drink...

How do we get all of these to play nice long enough to realize they can actually get along peaceably with each other? That we can all learn from each other. That we are all actually brothers and sisters (you know, that PC "one race, the human race" thing), and that we can love one another, and it is alright because that might just be what G-d had in mind to begin with...

I'm ranting now, let me step off of my soap box...
 
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Quahom1 said:
Um, I uh read War and Peace, in Russian. :eek: Well, I really wanted to get inside the Russian mind of the times in order to learn the language. (it took me four years). :rolleyes:
Oh no! Q! Say it isn't so.... and I had such high hopes for you! :D ;)

LOL, I am impressed. That is quite an achievement.
 
Kindest Regards, China Cat!
China Cat Sunflower said:
I like your OP Juan.
Thanks, that means a lot.

Terrence really got you fired up didn't he? This is what, three, maybe four really excellent posts from you because an intollerant fundie came along and forced you to stand up and say something. I'd say he was a tremendous blessing to us all! God working in mysterious ways, again! Then again, I may be reading this entirely wrong.
Probably a lot more than three or four at this point. I take 'em all on. Intolerant fundies are not just mainstream conservatives...and they are not just Christians either. ;)

Ahh, I probably shouldn't talk like that, it gives the wrong impression and encourages precisely what I would like to avoid. I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't back down if a fight of intolerance is offered, which is a weakness of mine I struggle with. I would far better prefer it wasn't necessary...what can one do if someone doesn't want to play nice? I don't want to chaperone, we're all adults. But I'm not above playing bouncer when the need requires. Brian would prefer the "need" not be a strict one, and I find myself in agreement, but there is a line. One can only tolerate a certain amount of intolerance, before the disruption disturbs the peace of the community...(now there's a devil for ya!)

I probably should take this moment to note, I am impressed with how far you have come along...when you first arrived you were having fun tipping apple carts. You are still capable of tipping apple carts, but you also show you know how to play nice, and for all it's worth I am grateful you do choose to play nice much more of late. Thanks.

BTW, how is Kathe? I am surprized she is not around here more, I miss her input. FWIW.
 
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Kindest Regards, InLove!
InLove said:
Interesting thread, juan.

Zipporah? One of the seven daughters of Jethro, the Midianite priest?

And the poignant accounts of both Abraham and Isaac, and of Hagar and Ishmael have always left me wondering about some of the same things you have brought up here.
Thanks, both for the compliment and the reminder! :)
 
juantoo3 said:
I probably should take this moment to note, I am impressed with how far you have come along...when you first arrived you were having fun tipping apple carts. You are still capable of tipping apple carts, but you also show you know how to play nice, and for all it's worth I am grateful you do choose to play nice much more of late. Thanks.

BTW, how is Kathe? I am surprized she is not around here more, I miss her input. FWIW.

I don't know what Kathe is up to. I haven't seen her around on the other forum I post to of late. She's a real gem!

I'll tell you the truth Juan, I like more of a mosh pit atmosphere. When I came here I thought "now here's a nice little forum with potential, all it needs is a bit of stirring up." There were just too many chains begging to be yanked, and there still are. But I'm tryin'.

Chris
 
I was wondering about Kathe, as well. I never really got to "meet" her, but I enjoyed reading her posts. If you know her and see her somewhere, Chris, tell her she is missed here, and that we need her input on the "Mystery Thread".

Hang in there, Chris--you're a gem, too! Behave just enough so we don't lose you, okay? I need you.:)

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
I was wondering about Kathe, as well. I never really got to "meet" her, but I enjoyed reading her posts. If you know her and see her somewhere, Chris, tell her she is missed here, and that we need her input on the "Mystery Thread".

Hang in there, Chris--you're a gem, too! Behave just enough so we don't lose you, okay? I need you.:)

InPeace,
InLove

I dunno D, participating on this board is one of the most frustrating experiences I've had in a long time. But then there's something to the idea of tethering yourself to something frustrating because it makes you think and ultimately brings out the best in you. Still, I'm on the verge of walking away. It irks me that Terrence was banished. For one thing, he was a nearly perfect bad example. But mostly it irritates me when all voices can't be heard. I don't want to play it safe. I want to live large. I want to rock and roll with the punches, write on the cutting edge of my consciousness, and be wrong and apologize. I want to learn. I hate that this forum treats us like we're still in grade school. We're adults, we don't need kid gloves. But no, everything is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator in the misguided persuit of avoiding stepping on anyone's precious feelings. What a load of crap.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I dunno D, participating on this board is one of the most frustrating experiences I've had in a long time. But then there's something to the idea of tethering yourself to something frustrating because it makes you think and ultimately brings out the best in you. Still, I'm on the verge of walking away. It irks me that Terrence was banished. For one thing, he was a nearly perfect bad example. But mostly it irritates me when all voices can't be heard. I don't want to play it safe. I want to live large. I want to rock and roll with the punches, write on the cutting edge of my consciousness, and be wrong and apologize. I want to learn. I hate that this forum treats us like we're still in grade school. We're adults, we don't need kid gloves. But no, everything is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator in the misguided persuit of avoiding stepping on anyone's precious feelings. What a load of crap.

Chris

We get the most of you...no complaints there Chris.
 
juantoo3 said:
Oh no! Q! Say it isn't so.... and I had such high hopes for you! :D ;)

LOL, I am impressed. That is quite an achievement.

Well, it was the early 80s, and I had brain cells to burn (and the Coast Guard didn't/doesn't allow pharmacuticals...), but that is another story...
 
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About Kathe:

I met Kathe on the Select Smart board. Well, let me back up a second. I started out posting on the Prodigy Interfaith Debate board. I had taken one of those deals where I bought a computer for, like $150.00 but had to take a two year contract with Prodigy to get the swingin' deal. Three years later Yahoo bought Prodigy and closed the board. It was a kind of diaspora for all of us because we had a really great, diverse R&S board going. I wandered around looking for another home and wound up on SS. But that board is polarized between believers and athiests. That got boring, so I started looking around again. But then one of the old Prodigy crowd found me and directed me to the Aantares board where some of the exiles had regrouped, and were hanging out. I asked Kathe and a couple of other people to come over with me. She was frustrated with the SS board too.

We had a pretty good thing going on the new R&S board at Aantares, but the board was skewed toward a majority liberal point of view, and the liberals became intolerant of the fundies and tried to drive them off. Of course, with no one left to argue with the board petered out. But it wasn't just that. We all started to become more interested in the political debate. Aantares has an extremely rough and tumble political debate board. And we started talking more, and more about politics and less about Religion and Spirituality. And the philosophical differences between people's spiritual point of view started to take on political overtones.

So I looked around again, and I found CR. I tried to get my friends to move over here with me, and many came and checked it out. But people get used to where they're at and don't uproot easily, plus we're all preoccupied with the political thing, holding our collective breath until Nov. 7th in the hope that things will change, so it's harder to take the time for spirituality and such.

Chris
 
hey china.. that was pretty interesting how you ended up here. Im a creature of habit and I dont hop around too much either.
 
Faithfulservant said:
hey china.. that was pretty interesting how you ended up here. Im a creature of habit and I dont hop around too much either.
FWIW, I stumbled on this place quite by accident, doing research for a paper. The only other forum I participated on was a place that offered scholarships. I took a devil's advocate position in favor of war...against all comers...for quite a while, leading up to and for a short time after the start of the current goings on. Which is why I took an oath to myself I would not discuss the current situation here, and that I would only discuss war in philosophical terms. So far, I think I have pretty well stayed true to that, and I have every intention of staying with it. (this is *not* a dare...)

Oh yeah, the paper I wrote, dealt with the development of abstract thought, art and religion in pre-historic humanity. I am quite proud of that paper, and the concept still lingers in my thoughts. And the scholarship site...after three tries I got a $250 scholarship prize for third place...at a time the money was really needed. Made me feel really good to get paid for something I wrote. That was the first, and so far only, time. I figure if it's meant to be, it will be. Until then, I'll just keep plugging along...
 
Faithfulservant said:
lol is that why you stay off the politics board?
Yep! That and I seldom see anything that interests me.

I'm more into the development (evolution) of morality, like why are we moral? Especially, why are we moral if there is / was no God to begin with? Seems a pretty tall stretch of imagination just to invent "G-d" and convince the rest of the tribe to appease "Him."
 
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