Baha'i

Vajra wrote:

"...is this a book or is it online essay material? if either... i'd be happy to take a look at it.

actually.. now that i understand the perspective that Baha'is have towards Buddhism.. or, more specifically, now that i understand that Baha'is have a Theradevan perspective on Buddhism, it facilitates my understanding.

though.. in truth... some aspects of the epistimology don't jibe with the Buddhist epistimology... but then again.. why should they? if they did... you may as well be a Buddhist :)"

Reply:

Here's some bibliographical material on Buddhist-Baha'i subjects:

"A popularly written exploration of Buddhist teachings as they relate to the Bahá'í Faith is Jamshed Fozdar's The God Of Buddha, followed by his Buddha Maitrya-Amitabha has Appeared. Though these works are clearly popular apologetics, and though some academics have criticized Fozdar's manipulation of Buddhist philosophy and prophecy, they are worth mentioning due to their relatively widespread acceptance in the Bahá'í community. Of slightly greater academic rigor, though much smaller in scope, is Moojan Momen's "Buddhism and the Bahá'í Faith". Jonah Winters has raised some points of Bahá'í scholarship and Buddhism in his review of Momen's Buddhism and the Bahá'í Faith, in Journal of Bahá'í Studies, 6.4 (Dec. 1994-Mar. 1995). Daniel Conner's "Buddhism and the Bahá'í Faith," in World Order, 6.2 (Winter 1971-72), is a careful and tentative exploration of points of similarity between the Bahá'í Faith and Buddhism. Perhaps the best comparative study yet written is Phyllis Ghim Lian Chew's The Chinese Religion and the Bahá'í Faith, where she explores the development and interrelationship of Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism, and postulates Bahá'í parallels with them."

Fozdar's books are available through the Baha'i Distribution Service in the USA I believe and can be ordered by calling toll free 1-800-999-9019 and you could ask about the other books as well.


Vajra asked:

in terms of questions... my remaining ones are, i think, going to focus more on the issue of homosexuality.

in a previous post, you say that Baha'is forbid homosexuality, and only allow sexual relations within the confines of a marriage.

there are two aspects of this that i'd like to explore...

celibate homosexuals and married homosexuals.

in the case of a celibate... could they still be homosexual, yet not act on said prediliction, and still be a member of the Baha'i faith?

in the case of married homosexuals... hmm.. that would seem to fulfill the requirement of a proper sexual laison, would it not? is there some other area that this applies to?

Reply:

"Marriage" for Baha'is would be the traditional male-female institution, so as Baha'is we wouldn't recognize a same sex marriage in our Faith.

Baha'is recognize the marriages of other religions and also permit intermarriage of Baha'is with non-Baha'is.

If a Baha'i has homosexual feelings they are not violating any Baha'i laws. It would only be an issue if the Baha'i were to say become actively homosexual and it became known widely and was flagrant... reflecting back on the community, in that situation our Assembly would begin a confidential consultation with that Baha'i going over the facts in the case and whether he/she were aware that it violated Baha'i law. Counseling or other services might be referred to...

- Art
 
No "anathema sit's" in Baha'i, Buddhism...

The pragmatic beauty of Baha'i and Buddhism is the absence of 'Anathema Sit's", i.e., "Let Him be Damned" threats, unlike in the Roman Catholic Church.

In well-nigh two-thousand years of the Catholic Church there has been a massively tremendous collection of anathemas, that a science can be devised or should be to redact a concord or reconciliation of all the anathemas. Someone did such a conncordia in the 12th century or 11th century, a guy by the name of Gratianus, a monk church-lawyer; time for an upgrade.

Anyway, my point is this, it is hard to really know what the Baha'i religion and the Buddhist religion genuinely teach and maintain to be definitive of the essence-rigor of acceptance for members to merit the label and good standing of a Baha'i religionist or a Buddhist.

(By the way, Anthra, shall we call a Baha'i religionist as a Baha'ist?)

If a stranger to Buddhism looks at Buddhists they will say that Buddhists have gods and deities and saints to whom they pray to; but Buddhists of the learned kind, versed in the theories and intricacies of Buddhism will tell him that: No, there are no such entities, and Buddhists don't worship them.

Perhaps that is why Baha'ists in trying to round up the religions of the world in order to show that theirs is the last final definitive one intended by God to guide man to Himself -- and I thought that Mohammed made that claim in his days, that Buddhism is also a worshipful theistic religion.

But both Baha'i and Buddhism don't have lists and lists of definitions and statutes making very clear in words what their members are to adhere to in beliefs and to practice in life.

We do have very broad dictates on the do's and don'ts and theories about the rise of man and the cosmos, in Buddhism and in Baha'i. Beyond that -- and I know little of the innermost recesses of Baha'i and Buddhism, therefore I speak with fear of misrepresentation or misapprehension or ignorance even, there do not seem to be definitive meticulous statements of beliefs and concrete prescriptions of action.

Now, for the sake of people like me who cannot spend hours and hours pouring over the theoretizations of Buddhist elites, or what in fine details the Baha'ists believe and are mandated to observe in their daily life, the doctrinaires of both religions should come out with something like the Apostles' Creed and the Ten Commandments of the Chriantian churches.

But to their advantage, you cannot pin down the Buddhist or the Baha'ist on something which they once upon a time had declared to be irrevocably determined.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Hello my dear friend Susma!

Susma Rio Sep wrote:

Anyway, my point is this, it is hard to really know what the Baha'i religion and the Buddhist religion genuinely teach and maintain to be definitive of the essence-rigor of acceptance for members to merit the label and good standing of a Baha'i religionist or a Buddhist.

(By the way, Anthra, shall we call a Baha'i religionist as a Baha'ist?)

Reply:

I'd be mosty happy to answer any questions you may have about Baha'i practices Susma... The term "Baha'i" is used nowadays among the friends and by most scholars.

Susma:

If a stranger to Buddhism looks at Buddhists they will say that Buddhists have gods and deities and saints to whom they pray to; but Buddhists of the learned kind, versed in the theories and intricacies of Buddhism will tell him that: No, there are no such entities, and Buddhists don't worship them.

Perhaps that is why Baha'ists in trying to round up the religions of the world in order to show that theirs is the last final definitive one intended by God to guide man to Himself -- and I thought that Mohammed made that claim in his days, that Buddhism is also a worshipful theistic religion.

My reply:

I won't offer any description at this point of Buddhism as I think it has been well represented here by Vajra... but Baha'is are only saying that the Revelation of Baha'u'llah is the "latest one" and not "the last final definitive one intended by God to guide man to Himself".

Baha'is accept Prophet Muhammad as a Manifestation of God and believe the Qur'an is inspired and that Islamic prophecies were fulfilled.

Susma:

But both Baha'i and Buddhism don't have lists and lists of definitions and statutes making very clear in words what their members are to adhere to in beliefs and to practice in life.

My reply:

There is a very definitive "list" of Baha'i laws in the book known as the Kitab-i-Aqdas which also happens to be online and available for anyone to peruse, however many of these laws are not operative but will be implemented in future Baha'i societies under the guidance of the Universal House of Justice. Please see:

http://bahai-library.org/writings/bahaullah/aqdas/synopsis.html

Susma:

We do have very broad dictates on the do's and don'ts and theories about the rise of man and the cosmos, in Buddhism and in Baha'i. Beyond that -- and I know little of the innermost recesses of Baha'i and Buddhism, therefore I speak with fear of misrepresentation or misapprehension or ignorance even, there do not seem to be definitive meticulous statements of beliefs and concrete prescriptions of action.

My reply:

Again I'd be most pleased to assist you Susma if you have any questions in these areas as from my view, Baha'i beliefs are very definitive and not difficult to discuss.

Susma:

Now, for the sake of people like me who cannot spend hours and hours pouring over the theoretizations of Buddhist elites, or what in fine details the Baha'ists believe and are mandated to observe in their daily life, the doctrinaires of both religions should come out with something like the Apostles' Creed and the Ten Commandments of the Chriantian churches.

Reply:

There are available very specific details about Baha'i belief that we observe in our daily life and again I'd be most pleased to discuss any area you wish!

Susma:

But to their advantage, you cannot pin down the Buddhist or the Baha'ist on something which they once upon a time had declared to be irrevocably determined.

My reply:

Well I think you should be a little more specific here my friend... What do you think is so difficult to pin down that "they once upon a time had declared to be irrevocably determined"?

- Art
 
Good Arthra, I love you!

Thanks Arthra for your most enlightening information. I have learned to be more receptive to Baha'i people.

If every Baha'i is like you, I think there would be less suicide bombers roaming around looking for targets to bomb.

An old but thirty-st pundit said: "Look at the fruits". This is no flattery: if you are the typical fruit of Baha'i, then count me in as Baha'i, even though by background, training, and tradition I grew up and was brought up in schools to be Catholic. Now, however, I consider myself a postgraduate one.

That bit is very informative and reassuring, about Baha'i not claiming to be the final manifestation of God's plan for mankind, but the latest.

I can't say the same thing about Christianity and Islam. What about Buddhism? Well, the Buddhist savants, do they claim to have all the answers? They have no more questions?

I love you Arthra, for being a good man true to his religion, at least you don't get piqued with me.

No flattery to Vaj, either. But he's also one patient Buddhist, even though he does appear to have all the answers and none of the questions of this whole caboodle that is life and the universe.

Susma Rio Sep

PS Can you just the same work out something like a precis Baha'i creed and also its short list of do's and don'ts?



Susma Rio Sep
 
Thank yuo my dear friend Susma!

I will try to be in some small way worthy of your fine words...

Susma Rio Sep wrote:

Can you just the same work out something like a precis Baha'i creed and also its short list of do's and don'ts?

My reply:

Well Baha'is have a very simply declaration of faith that says:

"I declare my belief in Baha'u'llah, the Promised One of God. I recognize the Bab, HIs Forerunner and Abdul-Baha, the Center of HIs Covenant. I request enrollment in the Baha'i Community with the understanding that Baha'u'llah has established sacred principles, laws, and institutions which I must obey."

This is the basic declaration all Baha'is make when they declare.

Baha'is pray at least once a day and can say a short obligatory prayer:

"I bear witness oh my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee; I testify at this moment to my powerlessness and to Thy might; To my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self Subsisting."

This prayer is said between noon and sunset. One can also say as an alternative either of two other obligatory prayers which involved more directions.

Baha'is normally say their prayers individually rather than collectively...The only exception that comes to mind is a prayer for the dead.

Here are some "do's":

Baha'is pray every day and reading of our Writings is urged in the morning and evening;

Baha'is fast from sunrise to sunset during the Baha'i month of "Ala" which is between the 2nd and 20th of March. There are exemptions from fasting allowed...children under fifteen years do not fast; a person who is ill or travelling long distances is exempted);

We observe nine Holy Days in our year when work and school is suspended.

When possible a Baha'i is expected to go on pilgrimage (in this case to Mount Carmel and Bahji in the Holy Land) at least once in his lifetime;

When possible a Baha'i is expected to contribute at least 19% of their profits after living expenses to the Right of God or Huquq'u'llah;

Only Baha'is can contribute to building Baha'i temples or Baha'i causes.

Here are some "don'ts":

Baha'is are forbidden alcohol (an exception might be unless prescribed by a physician);

Gambling is forbidden;

Marriage is monogamous and sex outside of marriage is forbidden;

So these are some of our laws...there are others. Some are laws are not now enforced as I pointed out earlier.

- Art
 
I can qualify for Baha'i.

It is very satisfying to my vanity -- God forgive me, though, to see that I can fit perfectly within the Baha'i faith.

Except for that one thing about allegiance. I can't be loyal, I don't have the disposition to swear or promise fealty to any religion, not even the Catholic one where I grew up in and got properly marinated in.

Woe is me; I can find a home in any religion that is not against the law of the land; but for want of commitment to any particular one, there will be no home for me in any.

Susma Rio Sep


arthra said:
Thank yuo my dear friend Susma!

I will try to be in some small way worthy of your fine words...

Susma Rio Sep wrote:

Can you just the same work out something like a precis Baha'i creed and also its short list of do's and don'ts?

My reply:

Well Baha'is have a very simply declaration of faith that says:

"I declare my belief in Baha'u'llah, the Promised One of God. I recognize the Bab, HIs Forerunner and Abdul-Baha, the Center of HIs Covenant. I request enrollment in the Baha'i Community with the understanding that Baha'u'llah has established sacred principles, laws, and institutions which I must obey."

This is the basic declaration all Baha'is make when they declare.

Baha'is pray at least once a day and can say a short obligatory prayer:

"I bear witness oh my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee; I testify at this moment to my powerlessness and to Thy might; To my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self Subsisting."

This prayer is said between noon and sunset. One can also say as an alternative either of two other obligatory prayers which involved more directions.

Baha'is normally say their prayers individually rather than collectively...The only exception that comes to mind is a prayer for the dead.

Here are some "do's":

Baha'is pray every day and reading of our Writings is urged in the morning and evening;

Baha'is fast from sunrise to sunset during the Baha'i month of "Ala" which is between the 2nd and 20th of March. There are exemptions from fasting allowed...children under fifteen years do not fast; a person who is ill or travelling long distances is exempted);

We observe nine Holy Days in our year when work and school is suspended.

When possible a Baha'i is expected to go on pilgrimage (in this case to Mount Carmel and Bahji in the Holy Land) at least once in his lifetime;

When possible a Baha'i is expected to contribute at least 19% of their profits after living expenses to the Right of God or Huquq'u'llah;

Only Baha'is can contribute to building Baha'i temples or Baha'i causes.

Here are some "don'ts":

Baha'is are forbidden alcohol (an exception might be unless prescribed by a physician);

Gambling is forbidden;

Marriage is monogamous and sex outside of marriage is forbidden;

So these are some of our laws...there are others. Some are laws are not now enforced as I pointed out earlier.

- Art
Click to expand...
 
My friend Susma Rio Sep wrote:

"It is very satisfying to my vanity -- God forgive me, though, to see that I can fit perfectly within the Baha'i faith.

Except for that one thing about allegiance. I can't be loyal, I don't have the disposition to swear or promise fealty to any religion, not even the Catholic one where I grew up in and got properly marinated in.

Woe is me; I can find a home in any religion that is not against the law of the land; but for want of commitment to any particular one, there will be no home for me in any"

My reply:

I sense I think what you are experiencing... there are definite causes for your current "disposition" and issues about "allegiance".... You needn't state them here.

"Post graduate" students often go through this condition... But God is patient and has infinite capacity to wait. So do not for the time being feel guilt about it or that you should in any way compel your self to an allegiance before you are fully prepared and eager to spill out your life's blood in His path and write down on the manuscript of your life using the blood of your heart the tokens of your devotion.

The day will come when you will meet your Beloved, your heart's desire and all that went before will be forgiven.

"O my Lord! O my Lord! This a a lamp lighted by the fire of Thy love and ablaze with the flame which is ignited in the tree of Thy mercy. O my Lord! Increase his enkindlement, heat and flame, with the fire which is kindled in the Sinai of Thy Manifestation. Verily, Thou art the Confirmer, the Assister, the Powerful, the Generous, the Loving."

- `Abdu'l-Bahá
 
Namaste Susma,

thank you for the post

Susma Rio Sep said:
Now, for the sake of people like me who cannot spend hours and hours pouring over the theoretizations of Buddhist elites, or what in fine details the Baha'ists believe and are mandated to observe in their daily life, the doctrinaires of both religions should come out with something like the Apostles' Creed and the Ten Commandments of the Chriantian churches.

But to their advantage, you cannot pin down the Buddhist or the Baha'ist on something which they once upon a time had declared to be irrevocably determined.

Susma Rio Sep
Click to expand...

Luckily for you... you are not correct :) as Arthra has already demonstrated, Baha'is do have a "creedo" that you can recite and that sums up their teachings.

as does Buddhism.

in point of fact, as Buddhism was primarly an oral tradition, it's repleat with lists of things :)

here, i shall excerpt a few of these from a well known Buddhist website (buddhanet.net)


[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Four Noble Truths

1. The Noble Truth of Dukkha - stress, unsatisfactoriness, suffering;
2. The Noble Truth of the causal arising of Dukkha, which is grasping, clinging and wanting;
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. The Noble Truth of Nirvana, The ending of Dukkha. Awakening, Enlightenment. "Mind like fire unbound";
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. The Noble Truth of the Path leading to Nirvana or Awakening. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]All Buddhist teachings flow from the Four Noble Truths. Particularly emphasised in the Theravada.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Four Bodhisattva Vows[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. I vow to rescue the boundless living beings from suffering; (Link to 1st Truth)
2. I vow to put an end to the infinite afflictions of living beings; (Link to 2nd Truth)
3. I vow to learn the measureless Dharma-doors; (Link to 4th Truth)
4. I vow to realise the unsurpassed path of the Buddha. (Link to 3th Truth) [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Foundation of the Mahayana Path, these vows say. 'Whatever the highest perfection of the human heart-mind may I realise it for the benefit of all that lives!'[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Eight Fold-Path[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Right, Integral, Complete, Perfected.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. Right View, Understanding;
2. Right Attitude, Thought or Emotion;
3. Right Speech;
4. Right Action;
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Right livelihood;
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. Right Effort, Energy, and Vitality;
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7. Right Mindfulness or Awareness;
[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8. Right Samadhi "concentration", one-pointedness. Integration of, or establishment in, various levels of consciousness.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Alternate meanings are given as the original Pali has shades of meaning not available in one English word.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Five Precepts[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I undertake to:[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. Abstain from killing living beings;
2. Abstain from taking that which not given;
3. Abstain from sexual misconduct;
4. Abstain from false speech;
5. Abstain from distilled substances that confuse the mind. (Alcohol and Drugs)[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The underlying principle is non-exploitation of yourself or others. The precepts are the foundation of all Buddhist training. With a developed ethical base, much of the emotional conflict and stress that we experience is resolved, allowing commitment and more conscious choice. Free choice and intention is important. It is "I undertake" not 'Thou Shalt". Choice, not command.[/font]

(these are the precepts by which all laypeople abide and practice.)

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Five Precepts in positive terms[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I undertake the training precept to:[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. Act with Loving-kindness;
2. Be open hearted and generous;
3. Practice stillness, simplicity and contentment;
4. Speak with truth, clarity and peace;
5. Live with mindfulness.[/font]
 
Vajra,

Excellent summary of Buddhism that you've provided... and you're very correct to point out the verbal tradition which came down through chanting which aided in memorization.

Buddhists initially transmitted their teachings through Pali (a Prakrit) a language of the people while Brahmins used Sanskrit and continued to recite the Vedas.

Much of the Qur'an was also verbally transmitted through chanting and recited as well as being inscribed...

Thanks for your fine summary!

- Art
 
arthra said:
Vajra,

Excellent summary of Buddhism that you've provided... and you're very correct to point out the verbal tradition which came down through chanting which aided in memorization.

Buddhists initially transmitted their teachings through Pali (a Prakrit) a language of the people while Brahmins used Sanskrit and continued to recite the Vedas.

Much of the Qur'an was also verbally transmitted through chanting and recited as well as being inscribed...

Thanks for your fine summary!

- Art
Click to expand...

Namaste art,

thank you for the kind words.

pali is a pankrit of Sanskrit. a "pankrit" is a vernacular dialect of Sanskrit. Sanskrit was the overall name for the Indo-Aryan Middle Indian language.

it, Pali, arose sometime around 400 BCE, after the time of the Buddha, who most probably spoke Sanskrit, owing to his royal birth and the teaching and training available to young nobles at the time.

though.. in truth... he would have spoke a dialect of Sanskrit that was predominant to his region of birth...
 
[QUOTE}PS Can you just the same work out something like a precis Baha'i creed and also its short list of do's and don'ts?[/QUOTE]

Allah'u'Abha, friend.

If I could add a few things.

Some of the principles emphasized by Baha'u'llah are:

-The oneness of humanity
-The equality of women and men
-The elimination of prejudices
-The elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty
-The independent investigation of truth
-Universal Education
-Religious tolerance
-The harmony of science and religion
-A world commonwealth of nations
-A universal auxiliary language

Baha'is follow the moral code of the Ten Commandants and more. Baha'u'llah forbids:

-Killing
-Stealing
-Lying
-Adultery and promiscuity
-Gambling
-Alcoholic drinks
-Drug abuse
-Gossip and backbiting

Baha'is strive to uphold a high moral standard. Baha'u'llah stressed the importance of:

-Honesty
-Trustworthiness
-Chastity
-Service to others
-Purity of motives
-Generosity
-Deeds over words
-Unity
-Work as a form of worship

These are not all inclusive but give you a good foundation of the guidelines that the 7 million Baha'is in the world strive to live by.

warmly,

Mick
 
Mick wrote:

"Allah'u'Abha, friend.

If I could add a few things.

Some of the principles emphasized by Baha'u'llah are...."

My reply:

Excellent Mick! Good "list" and I wanted to thank you for the fine contributions you've made earlier on this topic and on the other forums here.

- Art
 
Sex do's and don'ts

Namaste, everyone here.

Sexual misconduct figures quite importantly in Buddhism and in Baha'i. Consider the following don't from Vaj, one of five Buddhist precepts:

"3. Abstain from sexual misconduct";

In Baha'i there's is that one about not doing adultery and promiscuity.

Do you Buddhist and Baha'i posters here know of any online texts on the more casuitic treatments of the sex do's and don'ts of Buddhism as of Baha'i?

In Catholic morality the very broad principle of sexual morality is no sex of any kind and any degree outside monogamic marriage, and within marriage no sex except in accordance with the natural law of productive sexuality, meaning no contraception except by abstinence or by rhythm method.

Susma Rio Sep
 
Susma Rio Sep said:
Namaste, everyone here.

Sexual misconduct figures quite importantly in Buddhism and in Baha'i. Consider the following don't from Vaj, one of five Buddhist precepts:

"3. Abstain from sexual misconduct";

In Baha'i there's is that one about not doing adultery and promiscuity.

Do you Buddhist and Baha'i posters here know of any online texts on the more casuitic treatments of the sex do's and don'ts of Buddhism as of Baha'i?

In Catholic morality the very broad principle of sexual morality is no sex of any kind and any degree outside monogamic marriage, and within marriage no sex except in accordance with the natural law of productive sexuality, meaning no contraception except by abstinence or by rhythm method.

Susma Rio Sep
Click to expand...

Namaste Susma,

i'm not sure what you are referring to when you ask:

Do you Buddhist and Baha'i posters here know of any online texts on the more casuitic[sic] treatments of the sex do's and don'ts of Buddhism as of Baha'i?

can you elaborate? i'm not really sure what "caustic treatments" is meant to indicate.
 
Susma,

Here is an online site where you can explore chastity and morality from the Baha'i standpoint:

http://bahai-library.org/compilations/chaste.life.html

Like Catholics, Baha'i law opposes sex outside of marriage and marriage is primarily for reproduction. Baha'is accept that the soul begins at conception and that abortion is against Baha'i law....however this doesn't necessarily mean we respond in the same way that Catholics have to enforcing these principles as we have our own Institutions and guidlines.

- Art

Susma wrote:

"In Catholic morality the very broad principle of sexual morality is no sex of any kind and any degree outside monogamic marriage, and within marriage no sex except in accordance with the natural law of productive sexuality, meaning no contraception except by abstinence or by rhythm method."

Susma Rio Sep[/QUOTE]
 
Susma Rio Sep said:
In Catholic morality the very broad principle of sexual morality is no sex of any kind and any degree outside monogamic marriage, and within marriage no sex except in accordance with the natural law of productive sexuality, meaning no contraception except by abstinence or by rhythm method. Susma Rio Sep
Click to expand...

Allah'u'Abha, friend

Concerning sex, Shoghi Effendi, the great grandson of Baha'u'llah and the Guardian of the Faith until his passing in 1957, said in response to a question by a believer:

"In connection with your question relative to the Bahá'í solution of sex problems. On the question of sex the Bahá'ís are, in most of their fundamental views, in full agreement with the upholders of traditional morality. Bahá'u'lláh, like all the other Prophets and Messengers of God, preaches abstinence, and condemns, in vehement language, all forms of sexual laxity, unbridled licence and lust. The Bahá'í standard of sex morality is thus very high, but it is by no means unreasonably rigid. While free love is condemned, yet marriage is considered as a holy act which every human being should be encouraged, though not forced, to perform. Sex instinct, like all other human instincts, is not necessarily evil. It is a power which, if properly directed, can bring joy and satisfaction to the individual. If misused or abused it brings, of course, incalculable harm not only to the individual but also to the society in which he lives. While the Bahá'ís condemn asceticism and all extreme forms of self-mortification they at the same time view with disfavour the current theories of sex ethics which cannot but bring ruin to human society. In the Bahá'í Cause marriage has been encouraged, but made somewhat difficult, conditioned as it is upon the consent of the four parents. Divorce, on the other hand, has been made relatively easy, and the sociologists are just beginning to realise the importance."

This was printed in Unfolding Destiny in a letter dated May 29, 1935. It can, as well as other works, be found at

http://www.ibiblio.org/Bahai/Texts/EN/

This site has most of the writings of the central figures of the Baha'i Faith. I found this quote by going to a simple search and typing in "sex".

We normally tell seekers, to simplify it, when asked a question concerning sex, that we are told that we should enjoy sex to its fullest within our marriage. This quote or a similar one is found in Fortress for Well Being, a compilation of writings put together to help us in forming a strong marriage.

warmly

Mick
 
I’m too ridiculously lazy to read this entire lecture of the Baha'i Faith. However, I did read one section that did interest me. (I don’t dislike your religion. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy its concept.)

“We believe that God gave us logic so we could know Him. Anything that is illogical is of man and anything that is logical is of God.”

I do not find any logic in understanding a greater being with no evidence of his/her/its existence (do you believe in anyway to connect with this god threw prayer/ magick/ meditation?). Then on top of that the religion must believe in either one God or several Gods. Maybe you answered this question before but I missed it. (I know that I am ignorant of this topic because I have not even heard of the Baha’I Faith until I got to this forum. Please enlighten me.)
 
Thanks Pagan-prophet for your note!

Pagan-prophet wrote:

I’m too ridiculously lazy to read this entire lecture of the Baha'i Faith. However, I did read one section that did interest me. (I don’t dislike your religion. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy its concept.)

“We believe that God gave us logic so we could know Him. Anything that is illogical is of man and anything that is logical is of God.”

I do not find any logic in understanding a greater being with no evidence of his/her/its existence (do you believe in anyway to connect with this god threw prayer/ magick/ meditation?).

My reply:

What is it Pagan-prophet that you would like me to do? (1) Prove to you that God exists or (2) were you trying to learn more about the Baha'i Faith? Let me know as I can give information about the Baha'is, but I really think you will have to pursue your own investigation about the existence of a Supreme Being....

As to logic and reasoning, Baha'is believe you should independently investigate and evaluate for yourself reality or truth, that it is your responsibility and obligation to do so and not merely accept what someone else tells you because they are a religious figure of some kind or because you happen to be raised in a certain belief system.

You seem to be asking: "...do you believe in anyway to connect with this god threw prayer/ magick/ meditation?"

Baha'is are monotheists much as Moslems, Christians and Jews are... We have Writings that were revealed by Baha'u'llah that are we feel particularly important for the issues facing mankind today. Baha'is ae interested in the establishment of a world federated government to maintain peace. We advocate reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty and in abolishing racial, class and religious prejudices.

Baha'is believe God can be approached through prayer as in other religions.

Pagan-prophet:

Then on top of that the religion must believe in either one God or several Gods. Maybe you answered this question before but I missed it. (I know that I am ignorant of this topic because I have not even heard of the Baha’I Faith until I got to this forum. Please enlighten me.

Reply:

Yes Baha'is believe in One God and we believe that God has sent Messengers and Prophets down through the ages to uplift mankind to a higher state of civilization... and we believe this will continue through the ages....

- Art
 
“What is it Pagan-prophet that you would like me to do? (1) Prove to you that God exists or (2) were you trying to learn more about the Baha'i Faith?”

I guess what I was trying to ask is: How can you use logic to know God?

“we believe that God has sent Messengers and Prophets down through the ages to uplift mankind to a higher state of civilization...”

Why did god not send himself? Is your god all-powerful?
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Is there a punishment for not fallowing this faith? (example: hell)
 
Pagan-prophet said:
“What is it Pagan-prophet that you would like me to do? (1) Prove to you that God exists or (2) were you trying to learn more about the Baha'i Faith?”

I guess what I was trying to ask is: How can you use logic to know God?

“we believe that God has sent Messengers and Prophets down through the ages to uplift mankind to a higher state of civilization...”

Why did god not send himself? Is your god all-powerful?
------
Is there a punishment for not fallowing this faith? (example: hell)
Click to expand...

Pagan-prophet,

Thank you for your questions.

We are told that which separates us from all the other animals is logic and rational thinking. We see the "breath of life" that God gave the first believer (Adam?) as the gift of logic and we are told that it is this gift that allows us to know God. It is the logic of the creation that is the proof of God. Could this order come from happenstance? It is the logic of evolution that is the proof of God. Could this as well come from happenstance. It is the logic that God instilled in us to make us His chosen animals/people that allows us to know and accept Him. Science without religion/spirituality is materialism and religion/spritiuality without logic is mere superstition.

We are told that God is Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent. He is the Unknown/Knowable. We can know His works and expectations, but we cannot conceive his presence. For this reason, He has chosen certain individuals to manifest His qualities and it is these Individuals that we know as Prophets/Manifestations. From the time of their imbuement it was as if God Himself spoke. They were chosen to deliver the new directions/message from God so society could continue to advance. Baha'u'llah told us this was called Progressive Revelation of God. We are told to think of the Manifestations as perfectly polished mirrors that reflect all the qualities of God. It is these qualities that attracted mankind to them and the message they were espousing. It is these qualities that made each and every one of them have to deny their own deity.

I am not sure what you mean by "all-powerful". We are told there is only one God and He is the God of all the religions of God.

The only punishment for not following the writings of Baha'u'llah is that one wouldn't be enlightened by God's most recent message. We believe that we can follow the will of God through many intermediaries as well as none. The important actions that we must do to walk the path is to accept the existance of God, to pray and meditate and to do good acts. With these three mandates our life will become calm and fulfilled.

In your original post you mentioned you were lazy. I doubt that. Searching for the truths of God or spiritual truths is a chore the lazy couldn't acheive what more even begin. I applaud you in your energy and questions.

warmly,

Mick
 
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