Jesus, sex and Mary Magdalen

P

Penguin

Well-Known Member
Messages
448
Reaction score
2
Points
18
Hi all,
Apologies if this has been asked before but it is something I don't know much about and I would like peoples opinions on this. If jesus had sex with mary magdalen or indeed was married to her why should it make any difference to people believing he was the son of god? If jesus was not celibate/pure could he still be the son of god? If jesus was god in human form and came down to show god is for everybody not just the jews then why is there a big issue made about mary magdalen?
 
Penguin said:
Hi all,
Apologies if this has been asked before but it is something I don't know much about and I would like peoples opinions on this. If jesus had sex with mary magdalen or indeed was married to her why should it make any difference to people believing he was the son of god? If jesus was not celibate/pure could he still be the son of god? If jesus was god in human form and came down to show god is for everybody not just the jews then why is there a big issue made about mary magdalen?
Click to expand...

For the very simple fact that he was not married to her, having sex with her.

He came her to fix man and save us from our sins not to bang some chick.
 
Hi,
Thanks for your reply. I agree with what you say but I read somewhere that originally the bible may have contained books which told of his close relationship with mary magdalen and these were omitted out. If jesus was god in human form and experienced all the things which humans do why shouldn't he have endulged in sex? Why is it so critical that he had to be celibate?
 
Dor said:
He came her to fix man and save us from our sins not to bang some chick.
Click to expand...
Yikes.

Namaste Penguin,

This is the subject of many a story and a few movies and probably will be for many more. There is much discussion surrounding it. Some think it abhorant thought to even consider. Others think it a distinct possiblity.

Some may say that he didn't come to earth 'to bang some chick', others wonder if he came to turn water into wine, others still wonder whose wedding would be so important to his mother to ask him to do such a thing?

Unfortunately we only have very few books and very few pages devoted to his life, room for a lot of speculation.

Some say the rebelious upstart that started this movement was chaste and have requirements for their clergy to be also.

Some say it wasn't in the bible therefor it didn't happen, others say it isn't mentioned in the bible, that proves he was married with children (societal norms of the day indicating a 30 year old rabbi/teacher/prophet would have been thought out of the ordinary to not have been married....and that would have definitely garnered a mention)

I am afraid it is left to conjecture, and those that suppose this or that, as it is not available for us to know with any of the cannonized documents we have...we can only suppose.

Why it would be an issue if it were true, I wouldn't know, except that for a couple thousand years we've been denying it, and it is awful hard to make those kind of changes...
 
If I understood correctly, penguin is asking about the theological implications of such scenario, regardless of what really happened.
 
Penguin said:
If jesus had sex with mary magdalen or indeed was married to her why should it make any difference to people believing he was the son of god?
Click to expand...
Why it would be an issue if it were true, I wouldn't know, except that for a couple thousand years we've been denying it, and it is awful hard to make those kind of changes...old thoughts die hard, some still see her as a prostitute despite the fact that church leaders gave up that notion a millenia ago.
Penguin said:
If jesus was not celibate/pure could he still be the son of god?
Click to expand...
I don't see why not.
Penguin said:
If jesus was god in human form and came down to show god is for everybody not just the jews then why is there a big issue made about mary magdalen?
Click to expand...
I personally don't see it as an issue, or even see how it could be, but it obviously is.
 
wil said:
others say it isn't mentioned in the bible, that proves he was married with children (societal norms of the day indicating a 30 year old rabbi/teacher/prophet would have been thought out of the ordinary to not have been married....and that would have definitely garnered a mention)
Click to expand...

Hmm ok Wil lets see virgin birth, walking on water, healing blind, healing lepers, feeding 5 thousand with 2 loaves and 7 fish.....hardly who I would call normal.

As for ramifications easy....Children would have also compromised His position of the last king of the lineage of David.

We have heard it all Jesus was married, had children, smoked pot, was gay, had an affair with some young boy. And you know what we will hear it all again next person that wants a best-seller.
 
Many thanks gents for your responses.

Caiamnson:- If I understood correctly, penguin is asking about the theological implications of such scenario, regardless of what really happened.
Click to expand...

Correct Caimanson, and the reason I ask the question is that I have been reading some books on jesus and tryed to picture myself in those times and being him. Having that mass of people attracted to you etc it would have been difficult for anybody, no matter who he is, to resist advances from women. In those days, as we all know, life was even cheaper than it is today, turbulent and volotile times and who's to say jesus didn't indulge in a bit of good old fashioned naughtyness. Whatever, it's not an issue to me personally but I know some people do get rather passionate about jesus having to have been celibate and I was hoping one of those people would read this and tell me why. Many thanks.
 
Penguin, I found this article analysing the history of celibacy in christianity.
Introduction, Celebacy
Their conclusion is that either stating Jesus' celibacy or non celibacy is pure speculation.

As far as I can tell this is not a christian organisation, so you would still need a response from a mainstream christian point of view to compare.

I think the article is right in the way they analyzed it: Jewish perspective of the time, what other Jewish sects practiced, what the early church fathers taught and early church history. They also Analise the implications of celibacy in church power and politics.

What I think is missing is what what the OT says about the Messiah and what the jews of those times expected of him.

Whatever the case, it seems that celibacy had its origins in greek asceticism.
 
Penguin said:
Many thanks gents for your responses.



Correct Caimanson, and the reason I ask the question is that I have been reading some books on jesus and tryed to picture myself in those times and being him. Having that mass of people attracted to you etc it would have been difficult for anybody, no matter who he is, to resist advances from women. In those days, as we all know, life was even cheaper than it is today, turbulent and volotile times and who's to say jesus didn't indulge in a bit of good old fashioned naughtyness. Whatever, it's not an issue to me personally but I know some people do get rather passionate about jesus having to have been celibate and I was hoping one of those people would read this and tell me why. Many thanks.
Click to expand...

Besides the obvious, that Jesus is without sin (naughtiness outside the context of marriage is still sin, regardless of society's wink wink, nudge nudge), His mission was the focus on mankind, not on a mate, and a family.

The ramifications of Jesus having children through a marriage (or outside of marriage, which would be worse), would be the actual lineage. Can you imagine the children of a man who was conceived of the Holy Spirit of God and a virgin woman? Why, you've just condemned the Son of God to being no better than the fallen angels, who desired after the daughters of men...in other words, Jesus becomes Nephilim, as do His alleged "children".

Now let's look at the "hypocracy" that Jesus would have displayed, had He taken a wife and had children. What did He tell his followers? "Follow me, and I will make you "fishers" of men". So they left their homes, their livelyhood, their wives, and they followed Him. What a joke, had He a wife, but they had to leave theirs...

He also made certain things clear about His mission and familial ties. "Who is my mother, who are my sisters and brothers"? Add to that, "who is my wife and children".

Now the Old Testament never refers to the Messaiah having a family of His own. Nor does the New Testament. There is never speak of a mate, or of children with Jesus, but the Apostles have such.

Now there is "legend" and mythology of Jesus and Mary Magdelene having children. This alleged "secret" was protected by the Knights Templar, and is part of the folklore of the "Holy Graille". Indeed, if that were ever proven true, Christianity would be turned on its ear.

v/r

Joshua
 
Dor said:
Hmm ok Wil lets see virgin birth, walking on water, healing blind, healing lepers, feeding 5 thousand with 2 loaves and 7 fish.....hardly who I would call normal.

As for ramifications easy....Children would have also compromised His position of the last king of the lineage of David.

We have heard it all Jesus was married, had children, smoked pot, was gay, had an affair with some young boy. And you know what we will hear it all again next person that wants a best-seller.
Click to expand...


I heard Jesus had to wear a pink dress because he lost in a game of cards to Satan........ I think I might make a book about this.... lol jk
 
Thanks Quahom, some very good points there indeed, things of which I had overlooked especially expecting his followers to leave their wives and still having one himself. You are right, this would have been unthinkable and would have gone against everything that jesus stood for.

Now the Old Testament never refers to the Messaiah having a family of His own. Nor does the New Testament. There is never speak of a mate, or of children with Jesus, but the Apostles have such.
Click to expand...

Could the old or new testament have had books removed along time ago because they may have contained material which could have suggested jesus had a partner/companion? I'll try and find out the exact names of these, I don't think it was the book of enoch though. Many thanks.
 
Dor said:
Hmm ok Wil lets see virgin birth, walking on water, healing blind, healing lepers, feeding 5 thousand with 2 loaves and 7 fish.....hardly who I would call normal.

As for ramifications easy....Children would have also compromised His position of the last king of the lineage of David.

We have heard it all Jesus was married, had children, smoked pot, was gay, had an affair with some young boy. And you know what we will hear it all again next person that wants a best-seller.
Click to expand...
Namaste Dor, you and Q present some very good arguments as to why it interferes with the theology as written and understood by many.

You also point out how the bible has enough leeway for a variety of interpretations, I know your reference is tongue in cheek, however you are correct how far the ideas get stretched...I did miss whoever wrote on Jesus smokin pot though.
 
wil said:
Namaste Dor, you and Q present some very good arguments as to why it interferes with the theology as written and understood by many.

You also point out how the bible has enough leeway for a variety of interpretations, I know your reference is tongue in cheek, however you are correct how far the ideas get stretched...I did miss whoever wrote on Jesus smokin pot though.
Click to expand...


read this?
CC11: Cannabis and the Christ: Jesus used Marijuana
 
There is a fragment of an apocryphal gospel, the gospel of Philip, and it tells us much in this regard.

"The Lord loved Mary more than all the other disciples and he kissed her often (on her mouth)..." now the fragment actually says 'kissed her often' and that's it ... modern commentary (not scholarship) has put 'on her mouth' in the gap. Why? Well, where else would he kiss her? Why not the cheek? hand? forehead?

The kiss in those days was exchanged between men (as it is today in many cultures), but that does not assume they are having sex.

So I would reflect on what is being read into the text, out of context of time and place ...

In fact our family has friends and neighbours, among whom are women I kiss upon greeting and women I don't, on the basis of 'comfortability' - some I have known for years and never kissed ... but because I kissed the woman next door, as it were, that does not mean I kissed her on the mouth, nor that we had children ...

There's a huge assumption founded on the morality and ethics of the reader, and this is more telling than the text, in my opinion...

The gospel itself is very heavily influenced by gnostic thought, and Christian sayings have been incorporated into the text ... but this was common gnostic practice to take from all sources (not just Christian), but rather allows the gnostic to show forth his wisdom 'wherever it may be found' ... so we can reliably assume that this gnostic Philip (who makes no claim to be the Philip numbered among the disciples) is following common acceptable practice of incorporation, and the question of whether he understood the original meaning of the text copied is questionable.

Thomas
 
Dor said:
See proof everyone has said everything about him.
Click to expand...


What do you expect? Any "famous name" will get talked about... I could stand on my soap box and say all that is said agaisn't Satan is really slander and he likes cute and fluffy things, and I have a photo of him cuddling a bunny rabbit... But yeah any name that is famous... be it a real person or not will gain slander and glory.
 
You beat me to it Thomas! It was Phillip I remembered soon as I saw it. Some very good points on the "kissing" and it's implications to jesus and mary. The points Quahom made in his earlier post was really hitting it home, great stuff! You are right about ethics on what a reader believes, again some very strong points. Many thanks gents it has helped me out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top