Blinded by Belief - A Great Paradox

J

JosephM

Well-Known Member
Messages
471
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Kentucky, USA
Man is a wondrous creature. Even the very thought that we are conscious at all is enough to baffle the most intelligent of men. Yet it is even more amazing that this wondrous creature we call man that has been mysteriously endowed with a mind and reason will voluntarily give it up rather than use these faculties. He gives it up to have a book he can believe in with all the answers spelled out for him and then attributes this book he knows was written by men to the divine creator.

What is it that would cause a man to do such a thing?

Inevitably a man will come to the place where the entertainment of this world no longer holds his interest and the questions of life come foremost before his mind. In his sincere search for his creator he reaches out and cries out for meaning. And when this desire reaches to his very core, something happens. He has a revelation or communications with the very essence of life itself. This he instinctively and understandingly recognizes as God. And it is revealed to him that this God loves and has been with him always and is not far away. Many Christians call this the new birth experience but it is in no way an experience that is limited to a particular religion.

From this point the man "knows" that He has a spirit and connection to the unknown questions of life itself. What he does from this point is most paramount in his journey. He usually has this burning desire to know more of this phenomena and connection that resembles finding a lost treasure. He becomes renewed and excited in purpose to know more and live in this experience he has just had. Not having all the answers, in his impatience he searches the data of his mind and recall teachings about a book of answers to his questions whose author he was taught is God. And if that knowledge was missing he shares his experience with others having had the same experience and is passed on to this same conclusion. His focus now is placed on a book. In it he seeks to find more of his experience and inevitably makes a decision of mind to accept this conclusion as a fact and through it he continues his search.

Though many things in this book neither go well with his mind nor reason he makes a decision to believe the book by a concept he is told is faith. He then uses his intellect to make it fit within that concept and puts the reason and mind as inferior to the book itself. After all, he has made a conscious decision to believe the author is God. In essence he gives up his right to doubt, question or otherwise disagree with the book whose words reinforces his decision as being correct. He believes he is in the process of learning yet his learning is always made subject to the premises of the book he has made a decision to believe in. His thinking process must always be made limited to the revelations of the book which he no longer separates from God.

To the outsider, this seems absurd, ridiculous and foolish. Yet to the believer the book speaks of itself as foolishness to the mind and therefore justifies the mind=s belief in this newfound faith. Because of the words in the book the believer sees others as blinded and lost. He sees himself as special and to be rewarded in a future life for his belief in this newfound faith concept. The book is purpose driven and gives him purpose by its command to make more disciples of the book or his newfound God. He will be so daring as to refer to his book as the Word of God as though that were the same essence of life that he connected with in the beginning. And thus starts a vicious cycle.

Reason cannot deliver him from this cycle because his decision to believe has negated its use. History, contradictions or errors in the book have no power over his belief as he is trapped within the confines of the book which declares all others to be blinded. It declares the understanding of all the concepts or premises of the book to be foolishness to the natural mind and beyond its comprehension. Yet the fact that he is blinded by this belief is hidden from him.

What can be done for him? Nothing! He must make his own choices and decisions. Those on the outside can only continue in love to include him as one on a journey and an equal partner of God's wondrous creation.



--------------------

Love in Christ,
JM
 
Irony in the extreme...blinded by faith? Or sight by foresight?
 
Great post!

My experience is that categorizing things into mental images, and mental images into concepts, and concepts into archetypes is how we absorb facts and preserve knowlege. But we can't be everywhere and experience everything, so we rely vicariously on the experiences of others to provide all the other facts that we can't access directly when we're constructing our sense of identity and place in the world. So we buy our conclusions off the rack, so to speak. The Church, the media and it's advertising, the prevalent nationalistic rhetoric wherever we happen to be located. It does the thinking for us. It digs up the relics, it tells us what science says, it organizes how we think of ourselves in terms of hygiene and sex appeal.

Most people I've met personally are finished with their own investigative thought processes by the time they reach their early twenties. They've absorbed enough information to satisfy their desire to understand things independantly, they're convinced that it's not worth the effort to persue an intellectually independant path, and they're most willing to sit back, relax, and let the world cruise on by.

Actually, I don't see much wrong with that. People want a sense of security. It keeps them from reaching for the pitchfork!

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
...
Most people I've met personally are finished with their own investigative thought processes by the time they reach their early twenties. They've absorbed enough information to satisfy their desire to understand things independantly, they're convinced that it's not worth the effort to persue an intellectually independant path, and they're most willing to sit back, relax, and let the world cruise on by.

Actually, I don't see much wrong with that. People want a sense of security. It keeps them from reaching for the pitchfork!

Chris
Click to expand...

Bible says a man isn't an adult until reaching the age of 30...

I'm inclined to agree, based on the stupidity of males prior to 30. Maybe there is a reason for such consideration...
Click to expand...
 
Quahom1 said:
China Cat Sunflower said:
...

Bible says a man isn't an adult until reaching the age of 30...

I'm inclined to agree, based on the stupidity of males prior to 30. Maybe there is a reason for such consideration...
Click to expand...

There's a thing in Judaism about not studying the kabbalah until age 40. I remember something about "if it's too loud 'yer too old."............. I'm too old!

O.K., I'm being funny, but there's a reason I can command a better wage than all those young carpenter dudes chasing me: I'm getting old, but I can still kick their scrawney butts!

Belief isn't stupid. Everyone believes in something.

Chris
Click to expand...
 
Quahom1 said:
Bible says a man isn't an adult until reaching the age of 30...

I'm inclined to agree, based on the stupidity of males prior to 30. Maybe there is a reason for such consideration...
Click to expand...

Where does it say that?

And what about the women?

BTW, I think in the old days (ie. ancient times) you would have been a middle-aged man by the time you were 30. People died early.
 
On other hand men's intellect is munipulated by their own interests and as they search for truth, they might find certain truth in a book which is called by some to be the word of GOd(which certainly could be), but if it is anyway interfers with the interests of this life and they do not agree with some of its concepts, they pick and choose what they want out of the book and blanket the rest over with what they call knowledge and love even while they know their conscience says otherwise.

The knowledge of this world is foolishness to GOd and perhaps the opposite of what has been said is happening...Mans reliance and confidence in his intellect has blinded him from real truth as he simply seeks to create a God to his own liking.
 
streetbob2006 said:
On other hand men's intellect is munipulated by their own interests and as they search for truth, they might find certain truth in a book which is called by some to be the word of GOd(which certainly could be), but if it is anyway interfers with the interests of this life and they do not agree with some of its concepts, they pick and choose what they want out of the book and blanket the rest over with what they call knowledge and love even while they know their conscience says otherwise.

The knowledge of this world is foolishness to GOd and perhaps the opposite of what has been said is happening...Mans reliance and confidence in his intellect has blinded him from real truth as he simply seeks to create a God to his own liking.
Click to expand...

That is of couse one take on it streetbob. Unfortunately man will do that regardless of whether the book is 100% true or has errors. But the fact remains it is mans fallacious and limited intellect that has him make the decision in the first place that then blinds him to other options.

Best Wishes on your journey,
Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
That is of couse one take on it streetbob. Unfortunately man will do that regardless of whether the book is 100% true or has errors. But the fact remains it is mans fallacious and limited intellect that has him make the decision in the first place that then blinds him to other options.

Best Wishes on your journey,
Love in Christ,
JM
Click to expand...


Very true Joesph, however if the Book is 100% true then ones interests that are contrary to the book must be sacrificed on the altar of truth.

again,I would say that ones reliance on his wisdom it what makes him blind not his limitations. God Bless Dj
 
streetbob2006 said:
Very true Joesph, however if the Book is 100% true then ones interests that are contrary to the book must be sacrificed on the altar of truth.

again,I would say that ones reliance on his wisdom it what makes him blind not his limitations. God Bless Dj
Click to expand...

On what you have written I think we both agree streetbob.

What you dismiss though is another alternative and that is that we can go beyond intellect and enter the realm of the kingdom, which is here now as it was at hand in Jesus's time, and 'know'.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
On what you have written I think we both agree streetbob.

What you dismiss though is another alternative and that is that we can go beyond intellect and enter the realm of the kingdom, which is here now as it was at hand in Jesus's time, and 'know'.
Click to expand...
So then, where is the paradox?
 
wil said:
So then, where is the paradox?
Click to expand...

Greetings Wil and welcome to the thread.

The paradox is only to those who limit themselves to intellect and by a fixed decision to put 100 % trust in a Book, blind themselves to the other option just mentioned.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
The paradox is only to those who limit themselves to intellect and by a fixed decision to put 100 % trust in a Book, blind themselves to the other option just mentioned.
Click to expand...
Namaste Joseph,

But where would you be without the book? Do you not think you put 100% trust in the book? I'm not saying that it was not written at a point in time where some of the understandings may not apply to your current thinking. I'm not saying that it doesn't contain some myth, some allegory, some parable and some analogy...I think possibly you trust it does. And that knowledge allows it to come alive even more, sustain your belief in it even deeper.

The knowledge that you can see what you see, and I what I see, and others can read and find comfort in the pages...in their manner, in their way...isn't it a beautiful thing?

Should I ask what book we are speaking, and does it matter?
 
wil said:
Namaste Joseph,

But where would you be without the book? Do you not think you put 100% trust in the book? I'm not saying that it was not written at a point in time where some of the understandings may not apply to your current thinking. I'm not saying that it doesn't contain some myth, some allegory, some parable and some analogy...I think possibly you trust it does. And that knowledge allows it to come alive even more, sustain your belief in it even deeper.
Click to expand...

Gassho Wil,

My experiences all happened outside of a book. At one time I allowed others to re-contextualize my experience to the book. (The Bible OT and NT)
After many years of study and being ordained I taught out of the Book. Though I did it in innocence, I did it in ignorance. I have since allowed my experiences to speak for themselves and no longer recognize the book as authority. In my view, it is full of myth, allegory, and contains error. The OT has been revealed to me as describing God from the standpoint of the ego of man. I have no belief in the Bible. In fact I have only understandings of truth that change as my experiences deepen. Not that truth changes, because it does not. But understandings will always be to some degree fallacious. How do I know? Because I can as yet not put to clear words that which I 'know' and is self evident.

Wil said:
The knowledge that you can see what you see, and I what I see, and others can read and find comfort in the pages...in their manner, in their way...isn't it a beautiful thing?

Should I ask what book we are speaking, and does it matter?
Click to expand...

All things are a beautiful thing. One will find comfort in relative truth but if one desires to go on, he must shed that belief that he might receive something greater. A book can only point, as you well know. Finding comfort in pages is illusory in nature. It is not found in the letters of words just as happiness is not found in external triggers. For those who are content with the Book, (whatever Book) that is fine. In time they will grow tired and weary and reach the end of its limits and then will they reach beyond to find what was always there before their eyes. Nothing is lost either way.

With Metta,
Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
On what you have written I think we both agree streetbob.

What you dismiss though is another alternative and that is that we can go beyond intellect and enter the realm of the kingdom, which is here now as it was at hand in Jesus's time, and 'know'.

Love in Christ,
JM
Click to expand...


The only thing I know about the Kingdom is it is entered through repentence and faith in Jesus Christ alone and that dom which CHrist is King has not and will not fully manifested itself until his return.
 
JosephM said:
Gassho Wil,

My experiences all happened outside of a book. At one time I allowed others to re-contextualize my experience to the book. (The Bible OT and NT)
After many years of study and being ordained I taught out of the Book. Though I did it in innocence, I did it in ignorance. I have since allowed my experiences to speak for themselves and no longer recognize the book as authority. In my view, it is full of myth, allegory, and contains error. The OT has been revealed to me as describing God from the standpoint of the ego of man. I have no belief in the Bible. In fact I have only understandings of truth that change as my experiences deepen. Not that truth changes, because it does not. But understandings will always be to some degree fallacious. How do I know? Because I can as yet not put to clear words that which I 'know' and is self evident.

Experiences are fallible and if false (which obviously they can be) will also blind someone to real truth. Just as you say a belief in a book blinds, so does experience. One can disregard objective truth because it is in opposition to a subjective experience.


All things are a beautiful thing. One will find comfort in relative truth but if one desires to go on, he must shed that belief that he might receive something greater. A book can only point, as you well know. Finding comfort in pages is illusory in nature. It is not found in the letters of words just as happiness is not found in external triggers. For those who are content with the Book, (whatever Book) that is fine. In time they will grow tired and weary and reach the end of its limits and then will they reach beyond to find what was always there before their eyes. Nothing is lost either way.

With Metta,
Love in Christ,
JM
Click to expand...


A book can do more then point...it can reveal objective truth. On top of that if a book reveals something greater then all there is no need to shed it, but to indulge. The bible is more then finding comfort it is about finding Christ himself. Its not about the pages or words, it is about the truth in those words. The writings of the Bible are forever deep with truth. I am not a Christian for happiness,finding myself, purpose, or anything else that fills me up. It about my heart and conscience crying out for a messiah to save me from my sins and granting me eternal life. I know I have done wrong and know that a Good GOd cannot let my crimes go unpunished, but through his SOn I can gain forgiveness. I am not so much on a journey as I am in the santification process. It is all about the glory of God not just trying to make myself happy,etc
 
streetbob2006 said:
The only thing I know about the Kingdom is it is entered through repentence and faith in Jesus Christ alone and that dom which CHrist is King has not and will not fully manifested itself until his return.
Click to expand...

You are free to believe what you say streetbob. That is your choice. Of course I do not share that belief from my own experience.

Best Wishes for you
Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
You are free to believe what you say streetbob. That is your choice. Of course I do not share that belief from my own experience.

Best Wishes for you
Love in Christ,
JM
Click to expand...


Hey Joesph, we will agree to disagree. It has been nice chatting. DJ
 
streetbob2006 said:
A book can do more then point...it can reveal objective truth. On top of that if a book reveals something greater then all there is no need to shed it, but to indulge. The bible is more then finding comfort it is about finding Christ himself. Its not about the pages or words, it is about the truth in those words. The writings of the Bible are forever deep with truth. I am not a Christian for happiness,finding myself, purpose, or anything else that fills me up. It about my heart and conscience crying out for a messiah to save me from my sins and granting me eternal life. I know I have done wrong and know that a Good GOd cannot let my crimes go unpunished, but through his SOn I can gain forgiveness. I am not so much on a journey as I am in the santification process. It is all about the glory of God not just trying to make myself happy,etc
Click to expand...

Streetbob,

Okay. If you choose to believe that a book can reveal objective truth about God I will not oppose you. Personally I find God more a subjective experience and there to be no such thing as objective truth but that is my experience and you are entitled to your beliefs.

I'm sorry but I do not understand it when you say "Its not about the pages or words, it is about the truth in those words." Perhaps then you are advocating one look for truth in words rather than in an eternal living spirit. Because I was under the impression that words could ONLY point to something because they are dead letters on paper.

You say "I am not a Christian for happiness,finding myself, purpose, or anything else that fills me up." Then you say "I know I have done wrong and know that a Good GOd cannot let my crimes go unpunished," It seems to me you fear God's punishment and feel that would not make you very happy and so out of fear of punishment you seek forgiveness and the glory of God so you can be happy. That seems like purpose to me. Perhaps I am mistaking your words but that is what it seems like you are saying to me. Nevertheless, I do not seek to change you from what you believe. I merely present a different picture for consideration. Your beliefs are a choice you make and I wish you the best life has to offer.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top