Where is Buddhism going?
- Thread starter Snoopy
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לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
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I snook into the luggage bay. *shruggs*
Tao, from another thread: (there's probably a whizzy way to do it but I don't know how!)
Quote: Originally Posted by Tao_Equus
Though looking at a map seems to me that Buddhism is under assault on many fronts, its heartland multiply punctured. Do you think it will grow or diminish?
Which map? Care to share?
Care to elaborate while I think?!
(I actually tried to put some “facts” in my OP of this thread, if you'd care to peruse
).
As a general point, I think it is difficult to identify trends because official figures don’t of course always give an accurate picture; England is officially CoE but seems to be more and more secular, Japan is Shinto_Buddhist I think, but more and more secular…
s.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tao_Equus
Though looking at a map seems to me that Buddhism is under assault on many fronts, its heartland multiply punctured. Do you think it will grow or diminish?
Which map? Care to share?
Care to elaborate while I think?!
(I actually tried to put some “facts” in my OP of this thread, if you'd care to peruse
).As a general point, I think it is difficult to identify trends because official figures don’t of course always give an accurate picture; England is officially CoE but seems to be more and more secular, Japan is Shinto_Buddhist I think, but more and more secular…
s.
T
Tao_Equus
Guest
Tao, from another thread: (there's probably a whizzy way to do it but I don't know how!)
Quote: Originally Posted by Tao_Equus
Though looking at a map seems to me that Buddhism is under assault on many fronts, its heartland multiply punctured. Do you think it will grow or diminish?
Which map? Care to share?
Care to elaborate while I think?!
(I actually tried to put some “facts” in my OP of this thread, if you'd care to peruse
As a general point, I think it is difficult to identify trends because official figures don’t of course always give an accurate picture; England is officially CoE but seems to be more and more secular, Japan is Shinto_Buddhist I think, but more and more secular…
s.
Is it possible for Buddhism to expand out of its home range in East Asia. Its under threat from Islam and yet may gain ground in China, if secularism does not evolve. I cannot see it expanding much in the west but I may be wrong. So what do you think?
Think? Oh sh1t.
Well…
I think a single answer doesn’t really address the question, you would have to look at it country by country. And for each country there is the issue of the official picture as opposed to people’s actual beliefs which may vary greatly. In my ignorance it seems quite “secure” numerically in countries such as Japan, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Burma. But of course this is for historical reasons and nothing stays the same!
Since my original post I have a read a little more about Buddhism in the UK. The fastest growing “organisations” are those that are somewhat more, shall we say, evangelical. That’s not my cup of tea, but if that’s keeping it alive? But at what cost?
What I quoted in my OP suggests Buddhism is doing quite well “numerically” in the West. Admittedly as relatively small numbers but as “converts” they represent (like me I suppose) people that have made an active choice rather than being born and brought up in a particular culture. And the numbers are apparently growing.
Perhaps as important (or more so?) is not just numbers but vitality (for want of a better word). I can’t remember who said it but I read that in Japan, Zen was said to be mostly dead wood, just an institutional church to be relied on mainly at funerals. Zen in the West is, by contrast, very much living wood.
I think your average Westerner, thinks of Buddhism as just another religion (oh sh1t, you do!), something to do with the exotic / weird Orient, a fat grinning man sitting cross-legged and avoiding being reincarnated as an animal. Not very appealing for the average Westerner I can see (or else it gets a little section on the book shelves in New Age shops for the Dalai Lama and relaxation books). But I think some people who look a little deeper find (behind any mis-perceived notions and the religious “trappings”), that it addresses some of the void that they see in their modern lives (am I evangelising now?....)
Finally, the Buddha predicted his teaching would wane away (till the next Buddha). And seeing as we all seem to be going to hell in a handcart (one way or another), he was probably right in at least that!
s.
Netti-Netti
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I don't think Buddhism will take off in the US. The mindset is too focused on individualism to be compatible with a view that is centered on selflessness.
citizenzen
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This Buddhist thinks that this is not a popularity contest.
The Buddha's teachings will impact who it impacts.
But of course answers like this...
don't make for great discussions.
Yah, I said in my OP "it" isn't a competition, but we could still talk about trends. So talk on!
s.
N
Nick_A
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Why should anyone be attracted to a choice between individualism and selflessness?
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste Snoopy,
thank you for the post.
the Buddha actually advocated that the Sangha go forth and spread the Dharma impartially to all beings... i think that the negative connotations of such actions by the Abrahamic faiths has led to a rather unusual view of the Buddhas teachings on spreading the Dharma. recall that the Shastras are repleat with stories of monks of various religious paths engaging in lengthy debate to determine which philosophical view was superior... this debating method is still taught in many Vajrayana monestaries and is included in part of the final exams, so to speak.
regarding the future of the Buddhadharma on this world system... it will end. in roughly 2,400 years the true Dharma epoc will end and it will be the time of the Sembelance Dharma... the Suttas go into more detail regarding the time line and such regarding the fading of the Dharma on this world system. indeed, it will be at such time that Maitreya takes rebirth on this world system to Turn the Wheel of Dharma once more.
my thoughts.
metta,
~v
thank you for the post.
Snoopy said:
the Buddha actually advocated that the Sangha go forth and spread the Dharma impartially to all beings... i think that the negative connotations of such actions by the Abrahamic faiths has led to a rather unusual view of the Buddhas teachings on spreading the Dharma. recall that the Shastras are repleat with stories of monks of various religious paths engaging in lengthy debate to determine which philosophical view was superior... this debating method is still taught in many Vajrayana monestaries and is included in part of the final exams, so to speak.
regarding the future of the Buddhadharma on this world system... it will end. in roughly 2,400 years the true Dharma epoc will end and it will be the time of the Sembelance Dharma... the Suttas go into more detail regarding the time line and such regarding the fading of the Dharma on this world system. indeed, it will be at such time that Maitreya takes rebirth on this world system to Turn the Wheel of Dharma once more.
my thoughts.
metta,
~v
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Does that mean that it's about half way through this cycle?
Vajradhara
One of Many
yeah, there abouts... but it sort of depends on the Sutta/Sutras that one takes to be authoritive on such matters. the initial halving of the length of time for the true dharma to arise was due to the inclusion of women in the monastic order, the Buddha gave an additional set of instructions for the women monastics to interrupt the halving of the time.. the long and short of it is that it's still the length of time the Buddha originally said the True Dharma, Sembelence Dharma and the False Dharma were to be.
ymmv.
metta,
~v
Netti-Netti
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That reminds me. I think it's punishment for a Buddhist to become a Theravadan if they mess up as a Mahayanan.Perhaps Yanks could all be Theravadans
(Don't quote me on that.)Actually all vehicles of Dharma are thought to be equally efficacious on the road to enlightenment-but, of course, various practitioners of various vehicles often show "team" pride that makes many say "one gets the best gas mileage from my vehicle."That reminds me. I think it's punishment for a Buddhist to become a Theravadan if they mess up as a Mahayanan.
earl
N
Nick_A
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Actually all vehicles of Dharma are thought to be equally efficacious on the road to enlightenment-but, of course, various practitioners of various vehicles often show "team" pride that makes many say "one gets the best gas mileage from my vehicle."
However, it has been conclusively demonstrated that choir logic does not lead to enlightenment.
Nick, since this response makes no sense to me, it must be like a koan-what is the sound of 1 conspiracy theorist clapping?
earl
N
Nick_A
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Nick, since this response makes no sense to me, it must be like a koan-what is the sound of 1 conspiracy theorist clapping?
First what you have to do is take everything off including any rose colored glasses. When completely naked, assume the lotus position and contemplate this question. The truth will eventually appear and you will be astounded.
As ever, I am grateful for your thoughts.
I am aware that the Buddha could be described as an evangeliser; it is the fine line today that I see where this greys into the "my way or the highway" approach of some organisations. Difficult call I think.
s.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
The Kalama Sutta makes the difference between the approaches clear...As ever, I am grateful for your thoughts.
I am aware that the Buddha could be described as an evangeliser; it is the fine line today that I see where this greys into the "my way or the highway" approach of some organisations. Difficult call I think.
s.