Pope ready to bow to Allah?!

Saltmeister said:
Removing one's shoes and prostrating oneself in the same way as Muslims do in the mosque, and observing the same rituals is an expression of the fact that one is devoted to that religion.

For the Pope to have to remove his shoes, wash his feet, bow down and prostrate himself when the call is given to the Muslims in the mosque, that would be like losing face, losing honour. It would be very humiliating to the Pontiff.

Sure, God understands, but the most excruciating part is not God's opinion of the Pope, but the opinions of men . . . :confused:
Click to expand...
Quahom1 said:
That is not what the Pope has to do. The article stated he would have to remove his shoes upon entering the Mosque, that was the only thing the article stated.
Click to expand...

I was deliberately exaggerating there. The idea of being forced to do the same things as Muslims in the mosque was a suggestion. If it was true that would be the ultimate humiliation for Christians around the world, even if the Pope isn't our leader. No group of Christians would ever want that to happen to their leader -- even someone else's.

How fortunate for the Pope!!! How relieving. My point was that it would have been a humiliation if he had to go that one step further. But . . . what do you think would happen if, one day, something like that did happen to Christian leaders? Signs of the Times?

Dor said:
So depends on what you actually think about Allah.
Click to expand...
Seeker_of_truth said:
I am interested to know what your concept of Allah (which literally means "The One God") and the Hebrew God is.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

From a Christian point of view, the Islamic God Allah is only nominally equivalent to the God of Israel in which Christians believe, and likewise only nominally equivalent to the God of Christ.

For Christians, Allah is conceptually not the same God. A God is conceptualised in the way a religion is taught and expressed. The way Islam structures and organises life, and the concepts to which Muslims align themselves, the values of Islam, Islam's rules and approach to life mean that a different God is conceptualised in Islam than in Christianity.

While Islam tends to organise and structure life, Christianity is, in a sense, independent of structure. Christianity doesn't have structure. A Christian's spiritual journey is conceptualised in metaphors and symbols that serve as signposts in that journey. Not all of these "signposts" will be encountered in one's spiritual journey. Moreover, we won't notice them all at once. While Muslims may see Islam as "more advanced" than Christianity, a Christian may just as easily consider these concepts "unessential" as the most important thing is one's spiritual journey. If Christians can dismiss Islam as unessential then that ultimately means that one religion does not affect the other. It's just a matter of choosing which one is more valid.

The theories used in Islam and Christianity to conceptualise one's spiritual journey are completely different in nature, which would lead me to conclude that the God depicted in the two religions are conceptually different.
 
wil said:
But as Christianity as a whole has no other leader in this regard (other than Jesus, who I agree would was right there with the two of them)..it is a grand gesture...one much needed.
Click to expand...

I guess, then, it might not be a "humiliation" after all, or even seen as "blasphemy" toward Christianity. It's not that the Pope's my leader, I'm not Catholic, but the idea of any Christian leader being "humiliated" may be intimidating enough.

We could say that the Pope's visit was "a purely personal one" of asking forgiveness from the Islamic world. I guess, then, that it's between the Pope and Islam. It doesn't involve the rest of Christendom.:D

A religious leader is just a man. Who ever said that any religious leader could speak for all of us, all the time? There are times when religious leaders only speak for themselves.

As Jesus said, "Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and give to God the things that are God's."
 
I don't think keeping the peace, turning the other cheek, loving thy enemy ever crosses the line. The problem is we've never, never fully tried it.

I thought it quite enlightening having a Imam visit our church and discuss Islam. The five pillars, submission to G-d, the ritual prayer prostrate 5 times a day, the charity required, the pilgramige to Mecca (at least once, if you can afford it), and fasting during Ramadan...and how he felt close to Allah (G-d) when he was fasting and alone, and only had one to answer to...no one else would know.

He made it clear that while Christians believe that salvation can only be achieved through Christ, he believed that salvation can only be achieved by following the pillars...and that the problem with the terrorists is they are not Muslims, they have strayed from the faith, as it would be impossible for them to do what they doing.

I sure don't see the Pope as bowing to some foriegn G-d than to be bathing in spirit with fellow believers of G-d. I heard him say something along the lines that the we need to connect more with the non-theists, and not be so concerned about other theists...
 
Hi Dor -

Perhaps if the pope asked an Imam to come and worship in a Church ... that would be interesting ... but I doubt they would get the point.

Christ asked his father to forgive those who nailed Him to a cross. If God can do that, I doubt He would hold much against the man who reached out in a gesture of eccumenism and unity in His name – a clear sign of one who follows a loving and forgiving God.

Courage, mon frere! (to be read in a French accent)

Hi Saltmeister -
A religious leader is just a man. Who ever said that any religious leader could speak for all of us, all the time? There are times when religious leaders only speak for themselves.
That's why we have the doctrine of ex cathedra - common to popular belief, we do not believe the pope, or what he says, is infallible. Only when he speaks with the voice of the Church is it so.

Thomas.
 
By all accounts the Pope's trip to Turkey was a resounding success. He managed to pull off a nearly astounding public relations coup. I'm astonished that anyone would fault the Pope for praying to God in a mosque in the locally accepted manner. It was a brilliant manuever, and a clear demonstration of his desire to put the bad feelings generated by his remarks behind him. My Dad had a saying when we were kids that's stuck with me. He said, "if you please where you go, you can go where you please." Looks like Benedict gets it.

Chris
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
I am interested to know what your concept of Allah (which literally means "The One God") and the Hebrew God is.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Not quite true. Allah means the main god. Please don't correct me with crap, when I know my history. Allah is the main god of a whole lot of gods in the old arab world.

That Muslims claim Allah (the Supreme God) as the God of the Universe is great...but about 500 to 1000 years too late.

Since the Pope is about to enter a house that is designated for God, he will remove his shoes in accordance with local tradition. He has respect for the people who believe as they do. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
By all accounts the Pope's trip to Turkey was a resounding success. He managed to pull off a nearly astounding public relations coup. I'm astonished that anyone would fault the Pope for praying to God in a mosque in the locally accepted manner. It was a brilliant manuever, and a clear demonstration of his desire to put the bad feelings generated by his remarks behind him. My Dad had a saying when we were kids that's stuck with me. He said, "if you please where you go, you can go where you please." Looks like Benedict gets it.

Chris
Click to expand...

My dad had a saying too. Stand up for what you believe or else fall in line with everyone else...

No thanks.
 
in the military there is the saying if you cant respect the person respect the position. is it possible for the pope to respect the muslim religion but not their version of god?
 
BlaznFattyz said:
in the military there is the saying if you cant respect the person respect the position. is it possible for the pope to respect the muslim religion but not their version of god?
Click to expand...

Take off your cross. Do not bow before the Lord. There is only one God, and your Jesus is not it.

Allah is the only God, and you will submit to Him, or die...

There are your options...
 
Quahom1 said:
Take off your cross. Do not bow before the Lord. There is only one God, and your Jesus is not it.

Allah is the only God, and you will submit to Him, or die...

There are your options...
Click to expand...

With an an attitude like that you can make anything seem horrible.

Let me demonstrate:


Either excect Jesus or endure an eternity of searing pain in the depths of hell.
We say this out of "love" because Jesus "loves" you, but you will still burn if you don't believe in him. You are what we call "unsaved" because you are a non-Christian so automatically that makes you possessed by Satan. I'm sorry that is your only option.:D
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
With an an attitude like that you can make anything seem horrible.

Let me demonstrate:


Either excect Jesus or endure an eternity of searing pain in the depths of hell.
We say this out of "love" because Jesus "loves" you, but you will still burn if you don't believe in him. You are what we call "unsaved" because you are a non-Christian so automatically that makes you possessed by Satan. I'm sorry that is your only option.:D
Click to expand...

Fortunately for you Seeker, you do not believe in original sin. For those of us that do, we have only one way out of this place...

But I'll tell you what, if more Arab Muslims were like the Moorish warrior in Robin Hood, I might think differently...:eek:

Please don't tell me they are, been there seen that, not impressed.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
Fortunately for you Seeker, you do not believe in original sin. For those of us that do, we have only one way out of this place...

But I'll tell you what, if more Arab Muslims were like the Moorish warrior in Robin Hood, I might think differently...:eek:

Please don't tell me they are, been there seen that, not impressed.

v/r

Joshua
Click to expand...

Original sin? No. Jesus the Christ Son of God? Absolutly.:)
 
Quahom1 said:
Take off your cross. Do not bow before the Lord. There is only one God, and your Jesus is not it.

Allah is the only God, and you will submit to Him, or die...

There are your options...
Click to expand...
Seeker_of_truth said:
Either excect Jesus or endure an eternity of searing pain in the depths of hell.
We say this out of "love" because Jesus "loves" you, but you will still burn if you don't believe in him. You are what we call "unsaved" because you are a non-Christian so automatically that makes you possessed by Satan. I'm sorry that is your only option.:D
Click to expand...

Well, you can say that if you want to dwell on the superficial aspects of Christianity and Islam. I don't think that really enlightens us much on either religion. It makes it sound like Christians and Muslims are robots that never cease chanting the same mantras. Dead, lifeless and brainless. Not a depiction Christians and Muslims would like.:)
 
so, the pope messed up, he's trying to put that right... I think we should all meet up after school and meet behind the bikesheds to reinact the crusades...
 
Get over it. Taking off your shoes before entering a person's house or a religious building is just good manners in many parts of the world.
 
Perhaps Islam and Christianity should bow to each other!.. leaving their emotions at the door.


Emotions are so base – sorry but i am a stoist [and borderline autistic ;) ]
 
I know someone from heaven was watching:

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

The Children of God... that sounds familiar but I can't quite place it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top