The Bab

[Postmaster]

Regarding the information on baha'i awareness some of the stuff is very seriously damaging to the Baha'i faith. It even has quotations from Bahaullah's sister saying that he was always interested in property and power. I wonder how much of the information is accurate? To be honest I often found it curious how Bahaullah came out of prison and was able to live in these very nice palaces? And a man of such relgious status you would have expected to live in something alittle more modest.

 

[Mick]

Regarding the information on baha'i awareness some of the stuff is very seriously damaging to the Baha'i faith. It even has quotations from Bahaullah's sister saying that he was always interested in property and power. I wonder how much of the information is accurate? To be honest I often found it curious how Bahaullah came out of prison and was able to live in these very nice palaces? And a man of such relgious status you would have expected to live in something alittle more modest.

And what does innuendo achieve. I wonder if Baha'u'llah had been aware of what you would have expected of Him 140 years later, if that would have affected Him in the least. Considering the world changing message He was sharing, if anything, He may be surprised that arguments would be so petty; over what a sister may or may not had said or what structure the believers made available to Him in His last days. You are quoting from a site that is dedicated to the destruction of the Baha'i Faith. Are you part of this or are you just an innocent shill being used by the transgressers.

Why would you wonder about gossip, when your wonder should be directed to His message. Can you recognize the fruits? Are they spoiled and bad. Do you sense evil in anything concerning the Baha'i Faith or any of the Central Figures. If not, what is the point?

Mick

 

[9Harmony]

Regarding the information on baha'i awareness some of the stuff is very seriously damaging to the Baha'i faith. It even has quotations from Bahaullah's sister saying that he was always interested in property and power. I wonder how much of the information is accurate? To be honest I often found it curious how Bahaullah came out of prison and was able to live in these very nice palaces? And a man of such relgious status you would have expected to live in something alittle more modest.

"...Then it was decided to remove to another place, at Bahjí. It so happened that an epidemic disease had broken out at Bahjí, and the proprietor of the house fled away in distress, with all his family, ready to offer the house free of charge to any applicant. We took the house at a very low rent, and there the doors of majesty and true sovereignty were flung wide open. Bahá’u’lláh was nominally a prisoner (for the drastic firmans of Sultán ‘Abdu’l-’Aziz were never repealed), yet in reality He showed forth such nobility and dignity in His life and bearing that He was reverenced by all, and the Rulers of Palestine envied His influence and power. Governors and Mutasarrifs, generals and local officials, would humbly request the honor of attaining His presence—a request to which He seldom acceded."Baha'u'llah and the New Era, Pages 34-38: 37

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 34-38

"Having in His earlier years of hardship shown how to glorify God in a state of poverty and ignominy, Bahá’u’lláh in His later years at Bahjí showed how to glorify God in a state of honor and affluence. The offering of hundreds of thousands of devoted followers placed at His disposal large funds which He was called upon to administer. Although His life at Bahjí has been described as truly regal, in the highest sense of the word, yet it must not be imagined that it was characterized by material splendor or extravagance. The Blessed Perfection and His family lived in very simple and modest fashion, and expenditure on selfish luxury was a think unknown in that household. Near His home the believers prepared a beautiful garden called Ridván, in which He often spent many consecutive days or even weeks, sleeping at night in a little cottage in the garden. Occasionally He went further afield. He made several visits to Akká and Haifa, and on more than one occasion pitched His tent on Mount Carmel, as He had predicted when imprisoned in the barracks at Akká. The time of Bahá’u’lláh was spent for the most part in prayer and meditation, in writing the Sacred Books, revealing Tablets, and in spiritual education of the friends. In order to give Him entire freedom for this great work, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá undertook the arrangement of all other affairs, even meeting the Mullás, poets, and members of the Government. All of these were delighted and happy through meeting ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, and entirely satisfied with His explanation and talks, and although they had not met Bahá’u’lláh Himself, they became full of friendly feeling towards Him, 39 through their acquaintanceship with His son, for ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s attitude caused them to understand the station of His father." Baha'u'llah and the New Era, Pages 38-40: gr1

 

[Promethium]

In Baha'u'llah's youth He declined a ministerial career in the government, which was open to Him. Instead he decided to participate in community service activities. He eventually garnered the nickname "Father of the poor".
After His release from the abyss known as the Siyah-Chal, he was banished to Baghdad and eventually retreated to live alone in the mountains of Kurdistan for two years in the hopes that His absence would quell disunity within the Babi community.


"The one object of Our retirement was to avoid becoming a subject of discord among the faithful, a source of disturbance unto Our companions, the means of injury to any soul, or the cause of sorrow to any heart. Beyond these, We cherished no other intention, and apart from them, We had no end in view."
-Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 250-252.

"concourse of Ministers of State! Do ye believe in your hearts that We have come to divest you of your earthly possessions and vanities? Nay, by the One in Whose hand is My soul! Our intention hath been to make clear that We oppose not the commands of the sovereign, nor are We to be numbered with the rebellious. Know ye of a certainty that all the treasures of the earth, all the gold, the silver, and the rare and precious gems they contain, are, in the sight of God, of His chosen ones and His loved ones, as worthless as a handful of clay. For erelong all that is on earth shall perish, and the kingdom will remain unto God, the All-Powerful, the Incomparable. That which perisheth can never profit Us, nor can it profit you, were ye but to reflect."
-Summons to the Lords of Hosts p 208
-Baha'u'llah

 

[imranshaykh]

Regarding the information on baha'i awareness some of the stuff is very seriously damaging to the Baha'i faith. It even has quotations from Bahaullah's sister saying that he was always interested in property and power. I wonder how much of the information is accurate? To be honest I often found it curious how Bahaullah came out of prison and was able to live in these very nice palaces? And a man of such relgious status you would have expected to live in something alittle more modest.

Its accurate to the extent that I have the book with me from which the quotations have been taken, which is saying something given that evrybody else who rejects the quotation would have not even heard of the book.

Regards
Imran Shaykh

 

[Mick]

Its accurate to the extent that I have the book with me from which the quotations have been taken, which is saying something given that evrybody else who rejects the quotation would have not even heard of the book.

Regards
Imran Shaykh

Well if it is printed it must be true.

I haven't heard of the book, yet, since you didn't mention which book it came from.

 

[Popeyesays]

Well, Irman, I wonder what book, and I wonder which sister, and I really wonder what the context of the statement ws, and if it's in Farsi or Arabic, would it be possible for you to scan the pages and make them available for others. I can't handle the translation, but I have friends who can.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Postmaster]

Well he was considered a heretic so I guess it was possible his sister would regard him as one. Maybe she was trying to justify why he behaved as he did. Maybe not? Before I thought it as cynical simply showing a similarity in religious ideas of Manichaeism to the Baha'i faith of which the founder came from Persian royalty also but 1700 years ealier even before Islam. This could actually be a plus in my view now, as it is intune with the progressive revelation.

Religious scholars can and have spotted more damaging problems in all monotheist religions and as I have said before Baha'i faith would be more vulnerable and as it's yet an other heretical faith you would expect mis-information to make its way through? Although some information on the Baha'i awareness could actually tip the scales.

 

[arthra]

Look at it this way....

Look at it this way...Did Christianity have any "enemies" when it began? What were the responses of the the Roman pagans when they first heard of Christianity... They thought there was a love cult and believed trhe Christians had things in common even their wives... They believed the Christians sacrificed infants and were anarchists refusing to acknowledge Ceasar so there were enemies who through innuendo and slander sought to attack the new Faith. The same is going on today with detractors of the Baha'i Faith... They have some of the truth and tryu to use it as a means to slander the Faith and it's Founder. Peoipel attack Islam and Prophet Muhammad the same was using innuendo and slander so this is nothing new...It's a time honored but despicable practise.

- Art

 

[Postmaster]

I guess.

Back to Manichaeism, it wasn't only the Baha'i faith that got influenced by that religion. Another religion was too.

 

[Mick]

Wait, I know the answer. Ask me...Ask me. Is it Postmastrianism?

 

[Postmaster]

Well I can't undertstand the sarcasum. But no it's a major world faith. Anyway I'm not a megalomaniac, I'm flawed, I don't know it all. Unlike most Baha'is that seem to think they have the answer to every aspect of religion, life and philosophy. I just say whats on my mind, throw ideas out and i'm not worried what people think or if i'm wrong.

 

[bupanishad2007]

My past experience with Bahais is such that I found them to be generally very paranoid about too many questions about their Faith. For instance, about letting anyone see the picture of Baha'ullah unless they went to Acre, Israel (I have seen his picture on the Net, and there seems to be nothing worth "hiding"). And they locked my family out of "Deepening" sessions because they did not follow me into the Faith. Finally, I dropped out since I could not see how 100+ more books and new laws by Baha'ullah were any more helpful than the simple teachings of Jesus, for instance. Am I just plain wrong, or did I misunderstand the Teachings?

 

[arthra]

Postmaster wrote:

"Unlike most Baha'is that seem to think they have the answer to every aspect of religion, life and philosophy. I just say whats on my mind, throw ideas out and i'm not worried what people think or if i'm wrong."

I really doubt Postmaster that any sarcasm was intended...

Above you wrote in your post:

"Religious scholars can and have spotted more damaging problems in all monotheist religions and as I have said before Baha'i faith would be more vulnerable.."

My comment:

The "damaging problems" pointed out by some "religious scholars" (and here I do not include all of them) is more often I believe in themselves, that they can begin with a negative bias or believe they're trying to be objective when in reality their perspective is deeply flawed. Scholars as you know differ on a lot of subjects including religious subjects.

Baha'is are supposed to humble in their approach and respect other religions... and I think we generally are as we accept the Founders of the great religions.

I was just wondering my friend if you've been able lately to read more of the Baha'i Writings?

- Art

 

[arthra]

Note to "bupanishad":

My past experience with Bahais is such that I found them to be generally very paranoid about too many questions about their Faith. For instance, about letting anyone see the picture of Baha'ullah unless they went to Acre, Israel (I have seen his picture on the Net, and there seems to be nothing worth "hiding"). And they locked my family out of "Deepening" sessions because they did not follow me into the Faith. Finally, I dropped out since I could not see how 100+ more books and new laws by Baha'ullah were any more helpful than the simple teachings of Jesus, for instance. Am I just plain wrong, or did I misunderstand the Teachings?

Thanks for your comment "bupanishad"!

And welcome to the Baha'i Forum here at CR!

Yes I think you may have gotten an incorrect impression regarding the "picture of Baha'u'llah". It is hardly because of "paranoia" that it is not used publically...by the way... the one that is copied most often on the web is not the same as the one in the archives building in Haifa. The one used on the web is from a book by a Seventh Day Adventist missionary to Iran who disliked our Faith...

Anyway it is out of reverence that we do not used the image of Baha'u'llah and for that matter using the image of any Manifestation of God such as Jesus, Muhammad, Moses is in our view being irreverant and disrespectful.

There are also people who are tempted to worship these images and for that reason we do not encourage the public use of them or adoration of images.

I'm unsure what you refer to when you wrote:

"And they locked my family out of "Deepening" sessions because they did not follow me into the Faith. "

Most deepening sessions today use the Ruhi books and no one is excluded from them... so I'm unsure what you are referring to... The nineteen day Feast is for Baha'is only.

Your comment:

"...I dropped out since I could not see how 100+ more books and new laws by Baha'ullah were any more helpful than the simple teachings of Jesus.."

As you know we Baha'is allow anyone to decide for themselves what is best for them spiritually so your choice is yours. I think if you examine however many of the teachings you find they are very friendly to the "simple teachings of Jesus" and are compatible.

God's blessings on you in your path!

- Art

 

[bupanishad2007]

Re: Note to "bupanishad":

I do not hate Bahais, and I certainly do not mean to misrepesent them. I am speaking of personal experience, but that can be misleading, too, depending on the type of Bahai people one meets (just as in other religions). I know I was soundly reprimanded for taking my wife and then-3-year-old daughter to a "Deepening" session. That was some time ago (about 30 years), so things may be different now. I get great spiritual comfort from the Bahai writings, personally, and love how Baha'ullah speaks of how the "breeze from Heaven" swept over him and taught him spiritual things. I feel that "breeze" sometimes myself . . .

 

[Popeyesays]

Manichaeanism? Some ascribe it to Zoroastrianism, but truly it's from Mani (210-276 C.E.) about two centuries after Christ. The religion of Mani is a pretty good example of a failed religion.

Neither Islam nor Baha`i allow any dualism.

Regards,
Scott

 

[arthra]

Re: Note to "bupanishad":

I do not hate Bahais, and I certainly do not mean to misrepesent them. I am speaking of personal experience, but that can be misleading, too, depending on the type of Bahai people one meets (just as in other religions). I know I was soundly reprimanded for taking my wife and then-3-year-old daughter to a "Deepening" session. That was some time ago (about 30 years), so things may be different now. I get great spiritual comfort from the Bahai writings, personally, and love how Baha'ullah speaks of how the "breeze from Heaven" swept over him and taught him spiritual things. I feel that "breeze" sometimes myself . . .

Well thanks for your post again bupanishad!

Like i mentioned above... Ruhi classes are the main deepening classes that are offered today.. and as I wrote I have no idea why anyone would exclude your family from a deepening session!?

Baha'i Feast is exclusive for Baha'is only but even in a case where someone happens to be there through some reason we wouldn't eject them or be rude to them.

I very happy that you derived some "spiritual comfort" from the Baha'i Writings!

You may have heard that "Summons of the Lord of Hosts" was made available a few years ago and is newly translated Tablets to the Kings and Rulers... Here is a brief excerpt with a theme I think you'll recognize:

"Beware lest ye hinder the breeze of God from blowing over your hearts, the breeze through which the hearts of such as have turned unto Him can be quickened. Hearken unto the clear admonitions that We have revealed for you in this Tablet, that God, in turn, may hearken unto you, and may open before your faces the portals of His mercy. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the Merciful."

Allah'u'Abha!

- Art

 

[arthra]

Correction:

Above I wrote a few posts ago:

"... the one that is copied most often on the web is not the same as the one in the archives building in Haifa. The one used on the web is from a book by a Seventh Day Adventist missionary to Iran who disliked our Faith..."

My apologies...it was a Presbyterian missionary not a Seventh Day Adventist missionary as I wrote above... My apologies to my Adventist friends.

- Art

 

[Postmaster]

Neither Islam nor Baha`i allow any dualism.

I'm not talking about an exact retake of the religion. I'm talking about certain ideas that seems to have influenced both as was explained on a site i read once. Lost the link though. And if it was before them religions then partial truths must have exsisted in Manichaeanism yet it still failed. I'd say the dualism is to blame.