S
Silas
Guest
I understand it as Jesus laid down his life for the sheep, that is to say all those the Father has given him (John 17:6) and Jesus knows them and they know His vioce. Therefore, when the gospel goes out to the sheep, they will hear it and believe. As 1 Cor. 1:23-34 says:
"but we preach about a crucified Christ, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles. But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God."
Who's believing it, the Jews? No. The Greek or Gentiles? No. The ones being called out (the sheep) are believing it. And its by grace they even see (Jon 3:3), since none deserve to be saved in the first place.
bupanishad2007
Andrew
Please see my edited Post above!
Namaste Silas,
Can you help me with the ten times that they tried to kill Jesus? If you'll point out the scripture, I'll look it up.
Personal attacks are typically frowned upon. We here would like to have discussion, this deviates from creating an atmosphere where this is possible. We can all find plenty of places to go get preached at or condemned, no need to bring it here.
Apologies to all--I meant John 10:14-16
I would be interested both in how you interpret this, Silas, as well as input from the Jehovah's Witness point of view.
I hope this is not too far off-topic--it seems relative to me.
InPeace,
InLove
I would be interested both in how you interpret this, Silas, as well as input from the Jehovah's Witness point of view.
I hope this is not too far off-topic--it seems relative to me.
InPeace,
InLove
S
Silas
Guest
I wasnt aware that I attacked anyone, but if I was hasty and did offend anyone, please accept my appology - Im sorry. As for where the scriptures talk about the ten times before which Jesus allowed Himself to be killed, you can read them in the Gospels. Its starts at His with Herod and end with them trying to stone him a sec. time. Finally, He allowed it in the fullness of time.
S
Silas
Guest
Hey there family in Christ,
You'll have to excuse me, I thought I answered the question. Here it is again:
I understand it as Jesus laid down his life for the sheep, that is to say all those the Father has given him (John 17:6) and Jesus knows them and they know His vioce. Therefore, when the gospel goes out to the sheep, they will hear it and believe. As 1 Cor. 1:23-34 says:
"but we preach about a crucified Christ, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles. But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God."
Who's believing it, the Jews? No. The Greek or Gentiles? No. The ones being called out (the sheep) are believing it. And its by grace they even see (Jon 3:3), since none deserve to be saved in the first place.
As for the 2nd part, the part the JWs. I dont know what they believe. They need to repent and trust in Jesus, the real one, lest they die in sin. Jesus himself said, "If you do not believe that I am, you will die in your sins."
S
Silas
Guest
I didnt ask what do you know of John Calvin and whether or not he allowed Servetus to be burned on a stake. I asked what do you know of the doctrines of Calvinism that Calvin recieved from Agustine who got the teachings from Apostle Paul? In other words the doctrines of grace that we find in scripture and which was stystematically organized into a system of theology named "Calvinism" by John Calvin, what do you know of that?
S
Silas
Guest
The moment you look to yourself, you look away from the cross and you miss it. You'll end up like the religious Jews who sought God by their own righteouness rather than having faith in Christ and relying on His merit to save them. Romans 14:23 states that "whever that is not done in faith is sin." Therefore, I remind you friend, you are not good enough to please God no matter how good you think you are. So please trust in Christ alone and not on anything you do.
bupanishad2007
Andrew
[Got a quick question for the Moderators: How does one set up a personalized signature block?]
Namaste Silas,
I have faith, and I trust in the teachings. I just don't believe in a G-d that has such self worth issues as to need my worship or is in need of me placating or pleasing her.
Silas said:
hmmm, then what were you thinking when you said he didn't think?Silas said:
S
Silas
Guest
Before I answer your comments I want to ensure that God needs nothing from anyone, He is completely self-suffient and satisifed within Himself. That said, He did create creatures for His glory. His Glory is bound up in the unsurpassed joy in His creatures. Therefore, when we are fully Satified in God, God is then fully Glorified in us, giving Him the glory and we the joy, which is the best of both possible worlds. So again in short, if you arent glorifying God, you're sinning. Therefore the situation remains, whatever is not done in faith is sin. You must understand that it is not just faith, but the objection of one's faith that makes it true. For example, I can bleieve that Oprah is god and if I say her names 5 times a day for the rest of my life, I will go to Heaven. Because I have faith in that does not make it true. The only way that my faith in that would be true is if it occured. As for my condesending remark, Im sorry!
In him we live and breathe and have our being...
You know it is funny as I contemplate it, I realize all is of G-d, all my desires (of the father), and attribute all my blessings to G-d...but my mistakes are mine, the issues in my life I take personal responsiblity for...
Make me wonder.
You know it is funny as I contemplate it, I realize all is of G-d, all my desires (of the father), and attribute all my blessings to G-d...but my mistakes are mine, the issues in my life I take personal responsiblity for...
Make me wonder.
S
Silas
Guest
Back to the question at hand...
How do JWs and Mormons understand Jesus saying "there is none good but God." And, if they believe Jesus isnt God and therefore not good, how are they saved by his sacrifice?
How do JWs and Mormons understand Jesus saying "there is none good but God." And, if they believe Jesus isnt God and therefore not good, how are they saved by his sacrifice?
M
mee
Guest
i would not know what cults believe i stick to the bible.
M
mee
Guest
yes Jesus certainly does have other sheep . as John 10;16 tells us
"And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. .............
apart from the little flock of 144,000 he has a great crowd now welcoming Jesus as their king revelation 7;9-10
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
Hi. Member of a cult here (at least by your definition). (Well, and we're all members of a cult by Webster's definition.)
"There is none good but God."
I can't say how "the cults understand" this. I am not a cult. I am just a person who you define as a member of a cult. So I can only speak for what this means to me. I am actually not a "member" of much of anything (see user name) but I guess I'd fall into the "cult" category for you because I don't agree with you and I am best described as a Christian Druid (Christian by faith/practice, Druid by philosophy/practice).
I believe this is saying that all goodness comes from God. So everything that is good, is of God. God's immanence shines through to us in all good things on earth. Christ was saying, "Look, all the goodness you see, including the goodness in me, is from God!"
If you are saying that there is nothing good on earth, then you are limiting God. You are putting God in a "non-earth" box. On the contrary, there are lots of good things on earth, and these point towards the immanence and goodness of God. This is why the Psalms say that the heaves show God's presence, and why Paul says that all humans are without excuse (in their choice whether or not to seek after God) because even if they have not heard the gospel, they have the Creation itself to speak of God's presence, goodness, and love.
When we are good to others, when we love others as we love ourselves, we are also showing God's immanence. This is why this commandment is so important. We can show Christ's love to others by exercising the goodness of God that is in us.
I believe Jesus was a pure manifestation of God. He completely emptied His human self (desires, fears, etc.) and was, at the end, entirely filled with God's love and spirit, though in the form of a man. He was not only God, but also man, and this is how He unites the two. That He struggled as a man is Biblical, down to His time at the Garden before His cruxifiction, when He asked God to spare Him.
That said, I do not think we are saved by Christ's blood sacrifice, per se. Christ is an eternal essence of God; He has always existed and will always exist. Jesus was the temporary manifestation, the personification, of this essence of God's grace and love and pure goodness, into human history. Christ's sacrifice (God's sacrifice) has always been and will always be. His sacrifice was not simply cruxifiction on a cross, but much much more. God's sacrifice is His willingness to love us despite our sins, His grace in the face of our cruelty and self-centeredness. A lot of humans (of all cultures and religions) couldn't really understand the extent of God's grace and love. And so Christ was made manifest in Jesus (the man) to show us the extent of God's love for us and to give us a guide for how to lead a life truly pleasing to God- a life that is free from "the rules" but following the right path, leading us to extend God's love and grace to others in turn.
So I suppose I fit in an odd category for you. I believe in the perfection of Jesus Christ, and His rightful place as an essence of God. But I do not believe that God demands blood sacrifice, so I think to see it in that way is limiting the true Gift that was given. Yes, there is none good but God. But God's goodness is in everything He ever created, as Genesis says. We can choose to not be good (that is our free will), we can choose not to cultivate the immanence of God in us, but we cannot be totally rid of it. We can only ignore it, and even this is only finite, for we exist in mere slivers of time and understanding that are as nothing at all to the eternal God.
Wonderful description of the meaning of "Christ" if I'm understanding you correctly path and a view I'd agree with: "Christ" being a principal, or force, or potential for a human to receive and manifest into this world of form the full expression of God, which was fully completed in and by Jesus. have a good one, earlHi. Member of a cult here (at least by your definition). (Well, and we're all members of a cult by Webster's definition.)
"There is none good but God."
I can't say how "the cults understand" this. I am not a cult. I am just a person who you define as a member of a cult. So I can only speak for what this means to me. I am actually not a "member" of much of anything (see user name) but I guess I'd fall into the "cult" category for you because I don't agree with you and I am best described as a Christian Druid (Christian by faith/practice, Druid by philosophy/practice).
I believe this is saying that all goodness comes from God. So everything that is good, is of God. God's immanence shines through to us in all good things on earth. Christ was saying, "Look, all the goodness you see, including the goodness in me, is from God!"
If you are saying that there is nothing good on earth, then you are limiting God. You are putting God in a "non-earth" box. On the contrary, there are lots of good things on earth, and these point towards the immanence and goodness of God. This is why the Psalms say that the heaves show God's presence, and why Paul says that all humans are without excuse (in their choice whether or not to seek after God) because even if they have not heard the gospel, they have the Creation itself to speak of God's presence, goodness, and love.
When we are good to others, when we love others as we love ourselves, we are also showing God's immanence. This is why this commandment is so important. We can show Christ's love to others by exercising the goodness of God that is in us.
I believe Jesus was a pure manifestation of God. He completely emptied His human self (desires, fears, etc.) and was, at the end, entirely filled with God's love and spirit, though in the form of a man. He was not only God, but also man, and this is how He unites the two. That He struggled as a man is Biblical, down to His time at the Garden before His cruxifiction, when He asked God to spare Him.
That said, I do not think we are saved by Christ's blood sacrifice, per se. Christ is an eternal essence of God; He has always existed and will always exist. Jesus was the temporary manifestation, the personification, of this essence of God's grace and love and pure goodness, into human history. Christ's sacrifice (God's sacrifice) has always been and will always be. His sacrifice was not simply cruxifiction on a cross, but much much more. God's sacrifice is His willingness to love us despite our sins, His grace in the face of our cruelty and self-centeredness. A lot of humans (of all cultures and religions) couldn't really understand the extent of God's grace and love. And so Christ was made manifest in Jesus (the man) to show us the extent of God's love for us and to give us a guide for how to lead a life truly pleasing to God- a life that is free from "the rules" but following the right path, leading us to extend God's love and grace to others in turn.
So I suppose I fit in an odd category for you. I believe in the perfection of Jesus Christ, and His rightful place as an essence of God. But I do not believe that God demands blood sacrifice, so I think to see it in that way is limiting the true Gift that was given. Yes, there is none good but God. But God's goodness is in everything He ever created, as Genesis says. We can choose to not be good (that is our free will), we can choose not to cultivate the immanence of God in us, but we cannot be totally rid of it. We can only ignore it, and even this is only finite, for we exist in mere slivers of time and understanding that are as nothing at all to the eternal God.
