bupanishad2007
Andrew
Yahweh ("Jehovah") hated the Canaanites (Phoenicians) and had the people of Israel exterminate them. Seems like a real bad precedent for Christians!
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
In my meditation in the word.. most recently God revealed something to me.. Im sharing it for those that will be edified by it..
I was studying the book of John and wow chapter 6 is amazing you can see the miracle he did with the 5000 and feeding them bread and fish and later in the chapter when he says he is the bread of life and all that eat of the bread will receive eternal life.. you see all but the 12 depart from Him because they could not comprehend what He was saying... they left Him.. The 12 stayed because they believed Him in faith.. I see a huge parallel in these days..
but that was only part of my study...
John 6:20 But He said to them, "It is I; do not be afraid." 21 Then they willingly received Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land where they were going.
This is amazing to me.. Think about it... God created time and all its aspects.. all its dimensions.. the invisible and visible.. he obviiously states that he foreknew us throughout the bible..that we are predestined and chosen... yet he states that he desires ALL to come to Him.. what if when one decides in faith to believe Jesus to accept Him as Lord and Savior that it completely changes your path.. changes your destiny.. puts you in His will not your own.
This scripture speaks to my heart.. He said it is I.. they willingly received Him and immediately they were at their destination.. supernaturally..
He knocks at the door of your heart.. and says It is I.. you accept Him into your heart and your path changes immediately.. you are at your destination which is the kingdom of God..
I hope this edifies someone like it did me.. God is good.
I was studying the book of John and wow chapter 6 is amazing you can see the miracle he did with the 5000 and feeding them bread and fish and later in the chapter when he says he is the bread of life and all that eat of the bread will receive eternal life.. you see all but the 12 depart from Him because they could not comprehend what He was saying... they left Him.. The 12 stayed because they believed Him in faith.. I see a huge parallel in these days..
but that was only part of my study...
John 6:20 But He said to them, "It is I; do not be afraid." 21 Then they willingly received Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land where they were going.
This is amazing to me.. Think about it... God created time and all its aspects.. all its dimensions.. the invisible and visible.. he obviiously states that he foreknew us throughout the bible..that we are predestined and chosen... yet he states that he desires ALL to come to Him.. what if when one decides in faith to believe Jesus to accept Him as Lord and Savior that it completely changes your path.. changes your destiny.. puts you in His will not your own.
This scripture speaks to my heart.. He said it is I.. they willingly received Him and immediately they were at their destination.. supernaturally..
He knocks at the door of your heart.. and says It is I.. you accept Him into your heart and your path changes immediately.. you are at your destination which is the kingdom of God..
I hope this edifies someone like it did me.. God is good.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
This is where you and I are different... you think you have the right to decide for yourself whether Gods decisions are just or not...
I believe Him in faith.. He is a just and righteous God and I would never dare question His authority or commands..
We are not here to please the people of this world we are here to worship the Almighty God.
bupanishad2007
Andrew
How about Hosea 13:16? Is that a loving God to be "faithful and unquestioning" to?
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Yes
people really should fall on their faces and thank Jesus Christ... without Him thats what ALL of us deserve.
bupanishad2007
Andrew
Seems a little against the grain of those who oppose abortion today, don't you think?
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Like I said... people should really fall on their faces and worship Jesus..
We are saved through faith..
Abraham had faith and would have sacrificed Isaac because the Lord told him to.. thats why he was saved and a beloved of God.. because he didnt question.. he just believed..
Im not claiming to know Gods ways all I know is that He says hHs ways are higher than my ways.. His thoughts are higher than my thoughts and I know that I can never comprehend Him.. I just believe.
We are supposed to be ready in and out of season to explain the hope that lies within... and I am telling you is that believing in Jesus Christ literally is what saves US. If it wasnt for His precious blood on that cross... you and I deserve what you just read in Hosea.. because God HATES sin.. He is so holy and perfect that Sin cannot exist with Him.. we would die in His presence..without His grace we are doomed to die.. with His grace our sins are forgiven and forgotten.
We are saved through faith..
Abraham had faith and would have sacrificed Isaac because the Lord told him to.. thats why he was saved and a beloved of God.. because he didnt question.. he just believed..
Im not claiming to know Gods ways all I know is that He says hHs ways are higher than my ways.. His thoughts are higher than my thoughts and I know that I can never comprehend Him.. I just believe.
We are supposed to be ready in and out of season to explain the hope that lies within... and I am telling you is that believing in Jesus Christ literally is what saves US. If it wasnt for His precious blood on that cross... you and I deserve what you just read in Hosea.. because God HATES sin.. He is so holy and perfect that Sin cannot exist with Him.. we would die in His presence..without His grace we are doomed to die.. with His grace our sins are forgiven and forgotten.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
in addition to that... Think about this.
We deserve punishment
Jesus who is God suffered that punishment once and for all
It pleased God to punish Jesus... thats how much He HATES sin..
Jesus suffered for ALL sins for ALL time.. because He is God it was enough...
We deserve punishment
Jesus who is God suffered that punishment once and for all
It pleased God to punish Jesus... thats how much He HATES sin..
Jesus suffered for ALL sins for ALL time.. because He is God it was enough...
bupanishad2007
Andrew
" I just believe."
That's your first mistake! So do the Fundamentalist Muslim terrorists of 9-11, and so many others in history who were ready to kill "for their God."
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
no.. your mistake is purposefully disregarding Jesus Christ..
You are arguing without considering where I am coming from..
The OT was preparing Israel for the coming of the Messiah.. You are hating a God that wanted to save you by coming in flesh to die for you..
I see you are retired military.. how many people did you kill "for your country"?
whats the difference? Your argument is flawed.
Contemplating, Jesus=G-d...
G-d who is Jesus suffered that punishment once and for all
It pleased Jesus to punish G-d...thats how much He HATES sin..
G-d suffered for all sins for ALL time...because He is G-d it was enough...
Contemplating trinity...
Jesus loved humanity so much He sent His only begotten Son G-d to earth...to die for our sins...
bupanishad2007
Andrew
"I see you are retired military.. how many people did you kill "for your country"? "
And the answer is, NONE that I know of. I was in the Army in Vietnam and then in the Air Force for 18 years, totalling 20+ years. I'm proud of my service, but I didn't accept it without question. I, personally, did not have any enemies, although my Country did. I'm not questioning God, Whom I love and serve, but YOU, who seem to think you know even better than God what's required of us. "Flawed argument"? Perhaps. Certainly one of us is DEAD wrong!
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
My dad was Air Force and served 3 tours in vietnam and was in law enforcement for 18 years before he died I know he had to kill and suffered for it greatly and I honor him for the sacrifices he made for this country. I was born in Dover AFB and my dad is a huge reason why I am the way I am and believe the way I believe. He died from cancer the cause Agent Orange spread by the country he served most of his life.. he didnt die in bitterness and I am not bitter because Gods will be done and not mine.. He is with his creator.
I think you hate what I stand for and I stand for Jesus Christ whom I serve without question... I believe everything my bible says whether I understand it or not.. that is what faith is.. believing in something not seen.
bupanishad2007
Andrew
"I believe everything my bible says whether I understand it or not.. "
I'm sorry about your Dad. My children all have had or do have spinal problems due to Agent Orange. It must have been rough for you. I'm sorry. No doubt you must believe or you would go bonkers---I don't mean that bad---that's why I believe. But I would still strive for more and ever more understanding. I think that's what St. Paul, for one, would have us do.
I'm sorry about your Dad. My children all have had or do have spinal problems due to Agent Orange. It must have been rough for you. I'm sorry. No doubt you must believe or you would go bonkers---I don't mean that bad---that's why I believe. But I would still strive for more and ever more understanding. I think that's what St. Paul, for one, would have us do.
S
Silas
Guest
I cannot doubt that you've loved your god and sought him as far back as you can remember. However, holy writ shall be my measuring rod and I can only affirm with it that "none seek after God (Rom 3:11)." Therefore, in my attempt to let God be true and every man a liar, I must believe that your god isnt God - for none sought Him and None loved Him, save those who He has given grace that they may see that He first loved them with an incredible and mighty love where which He proved in the agony of His believed Son, Jesus.
S
Silas
Guest
Hi Thomas,
I agree that man has a free will, as evident in scripture. But agian, I see from scripture that will is bound in a willingness to love sin and hate God. Can you show me from scritpture one person who choose to serve God out of His/her own will, pior to God's grace?
bupanishad2007
Andrew
We "live, move, and have our being" by God's grace. How much more "prevenient" can you get than that?
S
Silas
Guest
For: Faithful
You menitioned this:
"I have come to wonder if God chooses us all. After all, Scripture tells us that The Creator created us all, and died for all. Free will? Yes, we are free to choose His Love. (edited to add: or try to reject it)."
As a young Christian who is known recieving grace to understand these deep, yet basic truths of scripture, I find it extremely difficult to speak with other saints of the faith who are not only older than I, but may not be familar with, or even learned in theology and who are also bias to their traditions, which is evident by their unwillingness to "test the spirits" if it were. I can only ask that you would consider my words and weigh what I say in light of God's words. Again, I want to affirm with you all that man has a will. As for the word "free" I'm not so sure I want to use it. It is true that man has a choice but he always chooses that which is right in his own eyes. Yes, he can do good and be moral, as our Lord says..."You being "evil" know how to give good" Matt 7:11). However, when commanded to do the hightest good - namely, "deny self and follow after the hard and rough ways of the Christ," No one does it. Why? Because naturally we do not want this, but we want our own way.
If people would admit and understand that creatures are acting always consistant with their nature, then you would know that since man's nature is evil and loving of sin, he will not choose God as Scripture so plainly shows. Therefore, for God to show His love and mercy on rebellious man - and Romans 9 comes to mind here - He must choose from the same wicked lump of clay (humanity) some to display His love and mercy and leave the rest who already hate Him, to their own desiers and eventually punish them to show His power, wrath and justice. Now, we get to the seeminly difficult part. For whom did Christ die for? Well, let scriptures tell it. First I must make known to you that the words "all" and "world" in scripture have many different meanings - see for yourself (Mar 1:5; Joh 6:45; Joh 8:2; Act 21:28; Act 22:15; 2Co 3:2 etc.). We see from these scriptures that "all" does not mean everyone indivisually, but of all sorts of everyone, e.g., some kings, some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, etc. Indeed if God intended for all of already guilty mankind to be saved, He would have done so since we know from scipture that "What His soul desireth even that He doeth" (Job 23:13).
In Jesus!
You menitioned this:
"I have come to wonder if God chooses us all. After all, Scripture tells us that The Creator created us all, and died for all. Free will? Yes, we are free to choose His Love. (edited to add: or try to reject it)."
As a young Christian who is known recieving grace to understand these deep, yet basic truths of scripture, I find it extremely difficult to speak with other saints of the faith who are not only older than I, but may not be familar with, or even learned in theology and who are also bias to their traditions, which is evident by their unwillingness to "test the spirits" if it were. I can only ask that you would consider my words and weigh what I say in light of God's words. Again, I want to affirm with you all that man has a will. As for the word "free" I'm not so sure I want to use it. It is true that man has a choice but he always chooses that which is right in his own eyes. Yes, he can do good and be moral, as our Lord says..."You being "evil" know how to give good" Matt 7:11). However, when commanded to do the hightest good - namely, "deny self and follow after the hard and rough ways of the Christ," No one does it. Why? Because naturally we do not want this, but we want our own way.
If people would admit and understand that creatures are acting always consistant with their nature, then you would know that since man's nature is evil and loving of sin, he will not choose God as Scripture so plainly shows. Therefore, for God to show His love and mercy on rebellious man - and Romans 9 comes to mind here - He must choose from the same wicked lump of clay (humanity) some to display His love and mercy and leave the rest who already hate Him, to their own desiers and eventually punish them to show His power, wrath and justice. Now, we get to the seeminly difficult part. For whom did Christ die for? Well, let scriptures tell it. First I must make known to you that the words "all" and "world" in scripture have many different meanings - see for yourself (Mar 1:5; Joh 6:45; Joh 8:2; Act 21:28; Act 22:15; 2Co 3:2 etc.). We see from these scriptures that "all" does not mean everyone indivisually, but of all sorts of everyone, e.g., some kings, some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, etc. Indeed if God intended for all of already guilty mankind to be saved, He would have done so since we know from scipture that "What His soul desireth even that He doeth" (Job 23:13).
In Jesus!
S
Silas
Guest
S
Silas
Guest
“Of Him” — His will is the origin of all existence; “through” or “by Him” — He is the Creator and Controller of all; “to Him” — all things promote His glory in their final end.