Can fear be productive when approaching God?

[seattlegal] what is God's mercy, then? There are so many differing views, and that his mercy is for only a few. I'd like to disagree and suggest that it is for all. I sometimes wonder if hell is a real place, ya know? I have trouble believing that God would allow an eternal torment for those who reject his Love/will. I could see where an internal torment could be the case, but even then, I think we all unwittingly embrace such things in our lives.

For instance, I am tormented by anxiety at times, but only in social circumstances, and perhaps this keeps me from God's complete mercy as well. What is the lesson here, seattlegal? Surely there is something to be learned from this kind of fear.

[Dondi] I do deal with a type of fear, but it is not the frightful kind. My blood pressure rises, my heart speeds up, I get hot all over, and I get paronoid, but it's not like fearing God. Fearing God for me is simply being wrong about how I approach and view him. Then again, no one can be completely right, can they? I've read that all truths are but half truths, but how accurate this is I don't know, lol!

I tried to break out of my shell tonight, and it didn't turn out too good. I got extremely anxious, and had to leave the social gathering. It's quite a burden for me, and I have been dealing with it for yeas now. Maybe someday, God will give me the grace, or knowledge to overcome, but until then, I'm afraid I'll simply seek escape when it comes crashing in on me. Perhaps, I am too self conscious, or maybe have low self esteem? I don't know for sure...All I know is that I am happy when I am away from worldly things, and strangers, save nature... I absolutely Love nature and its beauty! :)

I agree that God's Love is to be shared, but at the moment, the only way I can share it is among faceless people on-line whom I've never really met, and family members who already know me. But, I do Love those I meet in life, only I don't stick around long enough to get to know them very well. Baby steps, I guess...


Love,
 
Cage said:
[seattlegal] what is God's mercy, then?
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Forgiveness and teaching a better way comes to mind...
There are so many differing views, and that his mercy is for only a few. I'd like to disagree and suggest that it is for all. I sometimes wonder if hell is a real place, ya know? I have trouble believing that God would allow an eternal torment for those who reject his Love/will. I could see where an internal torment could be the case, but even then, I think we all unwittingly embrace such things in our lives.
For instance, I am tormented by anxiety at times, but only in social circumstances, and perhaps this keeps me from God's complete mercy as well. What is the lesson here, seattlegal? Surely there is something to be learned from this kind of fear.
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I never said that God's mercy is only for a few. However, what's left for those who willfully reject it, and for those who do not practice mercy?
 
seattlegal said:
However, what's left for those who willfully reject it, and for those who do not practice mercy?
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Darkness, perhaps? Inner torment? Lack of peace, Love, etc... Everything we all experience at some point in our lives. I guess teaching forgiveness, and a better way would help some, while it would infuriate others./shrug

I wish things were more simple, but how beneficial would that be? I think we all need to go through such trials in order to grow in understanding. I just want to be compassionate enough to not offend, but at the same time make a positive impact, ya know? We all have our personal demons to deal with, and that is what makes life worth living. It's a process of growth, I think...


[seattlegal] I've read many of your posts, and I value your thoughts.


Love,
 
cage said:
Darkness, perhaps? Inner torment? Lack of peace, Love, etc... Everything we all experience at some point in our lives. I guess teaching forgiveness, and a better way would help some, while it would infuriate others./shrug
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Being blinded by anger, perhaps? ;) {It gives a whole new dimension of blind guides, does it not?}
cage said:
I wish things were more simple, but how beneficial would that be? I think we all need to go through such trials in order to grow in understanding. I just want to be compassionate enough to not offend, but at the same time make a positive impact, ya know? We all have our personal demons to deal with, and that is what makes life worth living. It's a process of growth, I think...
Click to expand...
Becoming child-like again....
Matt 24 (specifically verse 10) describes how taking offense leads to an increase of hate...
[seattlegal] I've read many of your posts, and I value your thoughts.


Love,
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Thank you, cage. You ask great questions. :)
 
Cage said:
I tried to break out of my shell tonight, and it didn't turn out too good. I got extremely anxious, and had to leave the social gathering. It's quite a burden for me, and I have been dealing with it for yeas now. Maybe someday, God will give me the grace, or knowledge to overcome, but until then, I'm afraid I'll simply seek escape when it comes crashing in on me. Perhaps, I am too self conscious, or maybe have low self esteem? I don't know for sure...All I know is that I am happy when I am away from worldly things, and strangers, save nature... I absolutely Love nature and its beauty! :)

I agree that God's Love is to be shared, but at the moment, the only way I can share it is among faceless people on-line whom I've never really met, and family members who already know me. But, I do Love those I meet in life, only I don't stick around long enough to get to know them very well. Baby steps, I guess...


Love,
Click to expand...

Did you immerse yourself in prayer before you went? Asked God to bless the people you would come into contact with? I'm telling you, when we seek the presence of God, something happens to our ego, when we are bathed in the light of God, there is peace, love, and a sound mind. It passes all understanding.

You are channeling your energies inside yourself instead of outward. Given time, I believe that God will give you the grace to approach people. He will give you His Compassion for people. But you have to really be in the Spirit of God, and that only come through deep meditative prayer and meditation of His Word.

Give it time, my friend. Give God time.
 
[Dor] I'm not offended by questions at all. I actually like them because they make me think about what I truly believe. I want to refer to John 15 for this one, though.

10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.


He layed down his life to save those who would keep his commandments. [12] If you do this, you abide in the same Love Jesus did [10] The cross simply showed his Love for humanity. He chose a higher path by not resisting such a humiliating, and awful death so we migh see; I think he literaly gave his life to show Love, and not wrath or anger as that higher path, so we 'might' do the same. This is our cross: To Love one another and walk/abide in his Love. By dong this, we lay down our own lives for Love... Leaving behind the old man, and taking on the new in Christ.

I'd say he could have easily wiped out all his persecutors, but he didn't. He chose to rise again and defeat death altogether. If he had resisted the cross, how could he show the power of God's Love being higher? I think he had too, Dor. If he didn't, we would never understand his Love for us, and we too might focus on the wrath he 'could' have pursued instead.


[Dondi] No I didn't, but I might try the next time I go to a social event. I've prayed for such things, but never just before an event. I prayed this once, and I have faith that God will, in time, allow me to overcome and be a light for him. I just have to wait until I'm ready to recieve, I think. I have no other choice but to wait on God to take away my insecurities. Although, I do work on them myself, lol! Christmas dinner is always a challenge for me. I'll see what happens...


Love,
 
Cage said:
[Dondi] No I didn't, but I might try the next time I go to a social event. I've prayed for such things, but never just before an event. I prayed this once, and I have faith that God will, in time, allow me to overcome and be a light for him. I just have to wait until I'm ready to recieve, I think. I have no other choice but to wait on God to take away my insecurities. Although, I do work on them myself, lol! Christmas dinner is always a challenge for me. I'll see what happens...


Love,
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Just a few scriptures I hope will encourage you, Cage.

A prayer of Apostle Paul, to which I am in agreement for you:

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God." - Ephesians 3:14-19

And this is what we do after we are filled wth the fulness of God:

"Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation." - II Corinthians 1:3-7


May God shed His grace and peace upon you as you discover His goodness for your life.

Love and prayers,

Dondi
 
Cage said:
[pattimax] I'm a solitary man, and not good in real world situations. Church is hard for me to attend, so I must rely on message boards like this for my social, and religeous activities. I have an illness that prohibits me from being comfortable around people. social anxiety, and bi-polor...I could never learn a thing in church as I'm too focused on the anxiety it causes. I have been contemplating on all of scripture, though. Only, I haven't been reading lately. At the moment I'm completely relying on God's Love (Spirit) for my personal guidence, but I look to you guys for further input from scripture.


Much Love,
Click to expand...
Commentaries on various books of the bible require no social interaction. Then you could bounce ideas you come away with off the people you talk to on C.R.

I love people, but sometimes they just get on my nerves. Have you ever tried listening to Christian radio? I'm not talking about hell and damnation, (although that stuff can be beneficial at times, but not now)I mean things you can really sink your teeth into or just lay back and ponder. there are tons of Christian radio stations on the internet. Just because you don't want to have to deal with people now does not mean you should cut yourself off from growth.

You are getting a lot of good input from folks who really care about you. Sincerely do more than listen. Really hear them. S.G. said you ask a lot good questions, God has the answers, give Him time. (Dondi)

I am really offering my heartfelt prayers for you,
pattimax
 
seattlegal said:
Being blinded by anger, perhaps? ;) {It gives a whole new dimension of blind guides, does it not?}

Becoming child-like again....
Matt 24 (specifically verse 10) describes how taking offense leads to an increase of hate...

Thank you, cage. You ask great questions. :)
Click to expand...

I went to a church meeting last night with my mother. They have Bible study every wednesday. It is held at one of the members house, and she [the house owner] opted to stay in another room during the study, and sit with her child. After my mother and I left, Mom started showing a great anger because that lady didn't attent the study. All my efforts to lead her away from that anger were in vain, as everything I said to her, she resented. She felt like she was defending god himself through her anger. (She told me so)

That ladies child was sick, I told her...maybe she felt her time was better spent with him? My mother raged on for nearly an hour until she picked up the Bible, and found a couple passeges that calmed her a bit. I have no idea what she was angry about, nor do I understand why she felt the need to ridicule that lady behind her back for not attending bible study.

She kept saying Jesus got angry, and that that lady was setting a bad example for her child. I told her I would have done the same thing if my child were sick. Still, she resented everything I said, as it was viewed as a reproach. Mom said you see me as a villian, I said no, I think you're overreacting in anger over something that shouldn't be your concern anyway.

I think sometimes, some things might be better left alone. I can't change the heart of anyone but myself, and it hurts me when my efforts are met with resentment. I imagine many Christians feel the same way when they are blown off so directly.

I told her I was sorry, and that I was wrong, but I know in my heart that she'd be better off not being so stricken with anger, and with such negative attitude. Still my own self righteous attitude came into play last night, and that is what I appologized for.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell that, as it has got me a little distraught today.


[pattimax] Thank you for your post. I'd comment more, but I'm not feeling up to it at the moment, but I most certainly appreciate and welcome your prayers, and all those who offer their thoughts. This place has been of great benefit to me, and I appreciate everyone here.


Much Love,
 
Cage said:
I went to a church meeting last night with my mother. They have Bible study every wednesday. It is held at one of the members house, and she [the house owner] opted to stay in another room during the study, and sit with her child. After my mother and I left, Mom started showing a great anger because that lady didn't attent the study. All my efforts to lead her away from that anger were in vain, as everything I said to her, she resented. She felt like she was defending god himself through her anger. (She told me so)

That ladies child was sick, I told her...maybe she felt her time was better spent with him? My mother raged on for nearly an hour until she picked up the Bible, and found a couple passeges that calmed her a bit. I have no idea what she was angry about, nor do I understand why she felt the need to ridicule that lady behind her back for not attending bible study.

She kept saying Jesus got angry, and that that lady was setting a bad example for her child. I told her I would have done the same thing if my child were sick. Still, she resented everything I said, as it was viewed as a reproach. Mom said you see me as a villian, I said no, I think you're overreacting in anger over something that shouldn't be your concern anyway.

I think sometimes, some things might be better left alone. I can't change the heart of anyone but myself, and it hurts me when my efforts are met with resentment. I imagine many Christians feel the same way when they are blown off so directly.

I told her I was sorry, and that I was wrong, but I know in my heart that she'd be better off not being so stricken with anger, and with such negative attitude. Still my own self righteous attitude came into play last night, and that is what I appologized for.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell that, as it has got me a little distraught today.


[pattimax] Thank you for your post. I'd comment more, but I'm not feeling up to it at the moment, but I most certainly appreciate and welcome your prayers, and all those who offer their thoughts. This place has been of great benefit to me, and I appreciate everyone here.


Much Love,
Click to expand...

Lest ye do one thing to lead these little ones astray, best hang a stone around the neck and fall into the sea...

Never apologize for inappropriate behavior by someone else. Your mother has issues, that have not even come close to being addressed. And that is not your call either.

You called a spade a spade. Mom used or tried to use her authority over you, and it "partially" worked.

Your first response was correct. Should have stuck with it...

You are learning fast (for some reason or other).

Christ covers all ills (including ill will).

Mom is human, just like you and me and the rest of us, keep that in mind.

v/r

Joshua
 
Thank you Joshua, but I go back to where Jesus talked about correcting others whilst having a beam in your own eye. I'm human, too, and my shortcomings are no less severe than hers. I was worried, and I think wrong, for coming off selfrighteous when I'm far from being perfect myself, ya know?

I appologized for that, but I stood by what I said.


Love,
 
Cage said:
Thank you Joshua, but I go back to where Jesus talked about correcting others whilst having a beam in your own eye. I'm human, too, and my shortcomings are no less severe than hers. I was worried, and I think wrong, for coming off selfrighteous when I'm far from being perfect myself, ya know?

I appologized for that, but I stood by what I said.


Love,
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Second guessing will kill the righteous thought in seconds. Moms are really good at recalling every indiscretion a child has made in life. The fact that she called them up to you, should tell you she was on the defensive, becuase you were stating the truth of things. (you weren't nailing her to the wall).

If you love your Mom, you will bear witness before her...and she will love you more for your courage and strength.

I know it sounds crazy. But we do look to those who love us, to tell us what we do not want to hear about ourselves. We will lash out, we will deny, we will fight to avoid, but in the end we want to know that we are loved despite our shortcomimgs.

Then to be picked up and dusted off and set square of shoulder...by those who love us, is...precious.

v/r

Joshua
 
I need to be mindful of what spirit I'm in when I try to witness. I was fully aware of her own, but if I was in the right Spirit, and perhaps more tactful, and wise, I would have been more effective.

I'll continue to bear witness, but I will also keep my toungue in check. My words last night caused her to think I viewed her as a villian. The truth hurts sometimes, but if I can lesson that hurt, and still be effective, then that is what I'll pursue. I had compassion for the one who was being ridiculed, but I never considered my own mothers feelings.

Thanks, Joshua...I'll stick with it, but I'll try to do it with compassion for all involved.


Much Love,
 
Sounds like a spiritual attack to me. Cage havent you noticed the more you draw closer to Christ the more things happen that could cause you to stumble?? Even using people that love Jesus? This whole bible study thing and your moms self righteousness sounds like she is putting a law on you both... we have liberty through Christ ... we attend bible studies because we WANT to learn about our savior not because He WANTS us too.

*hugs*
 
Faithfulservant said:
Sounds like a spiritual attack to me. Cage havent you noticed the more you draw closer to Christ the more things happen that could cause you to stumble?? Even using people that love Jesus?
*hugs*
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Boy that sure is true!


I like to say "When you're playing in God's A league, you're playing against the devil's A league".
 
Faithfulservant said:
Sounds like a spiritual attack to me. Cage havent you noticed the more you draw closer to Christ the more things happen that could cause you to stumble?? Even using people that love Jesus? This whole bible study thing and your moms self righteousness sounds like she is putting a law on you both... we have liberty through Christ ... we attend bible studies because we WANT to learn about our savior not because He WANTS us too.

*hugs*
Click to expand...

Thank you faithfulservant,

If I had the words placed in bold, I think it could have calmed the fire a bit. Only, we were discussing Exodus the other night, and not directly talking about Christ.

Mom is a really beautiful person, but she has some issues...like we all do. One of which is that she doesn't like to admit her faults to others, but I am certain she realizes them in private, and works to improve them.

[prober] I don't know about the whole "A league" thing, but I'd say at any level the enemy puts up players able to give a good fight, lol.


Much Love,
 
Cage said:
Thank you faithfulservant,

If I had the words placed in bold, I think it could have calmed the fire a bit. Only, we were discussing Exodus the other night, and not directly talking about Christ.

Mom is a really beautiful person, but she has some issues...like we all do. One of which is that she doesn't like to admit her faults to others, but I am certain she realizes them in private, and works to improve them.

[prober] I don't know about the whole "A league" thing, but I'd say at any level the enemy puts up players able to give a good fight, lol.


Much Love,
Click to expand...

Exodus has many types of Christ, particularly in regards to the Passover Lamb. Egypt was a type of the world, with all its excesses and worldly reilgion. The ten plagues upon Egypt culminated to the last plague in which all first-born children were to die during the night....unless they spread the blood of an umblemished lamb over the doorposts. The Israelites did so, the Egyptians scoffed in unbelief. In the morning, much wailing could be heard in the homes of those who did not obey the Word of the Lord, including Pharoah, who lost his first-born son. It was the final plague before Pharoah let the people go.

John the Baptist, when he saw Jesus approaching to get baptized, said, "...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." - John 1:29

Jesus told the Pharisees:

"Search the scriptures;[OT] for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." - John 5:39-40 [brackets mine]

And a little further He said in vs 46-47:

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

The OT points to Christ, the Word of the Living God.
 
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