Caught at the End of a Loaded Gun: A Choice

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dauer

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You are sitting at home with your family when they arrive. Their clothes in some small or large way are different from your own. They seize you and your loved ones. You don't know exactly what is going to happen, but you have heard stories. You and your family are driven to a compound where you are separated and placed sitting at a bare table in a room, alone. A man or woman walks in dressed in the garb of some foreign clergy, or the garb of an official for a nation or organization that rejects clergy and religion. The individual speaks to you in similar or different words,

"Good tidings, my friend." He begins. "You are fortunate we found you when we did, for this is a matter that concerns your very being. Had you continued along the path you were on, you would have surely been lost to the world. It was a path of lies and deception. But we have come to share with you the truth of this world, and we hope that you can join us and be free from your former life of transgression."

He goes on to describe a way of life and/or system of beliefs dissimilar in large or small ways from your own, but one whose concepts, ideals, and or practices are in some way a violation of your own, whose acceptance and obediance would be a continued transgression according to your current path.

"We hope that you will accept," he continues to say in similar or dissimilar words. "We are spreading our way to all corners of the globe with faith in the creation of a utopia. But if you do not accept, we cannot allow your false path to continue any longer. You will be executed immediately. If you choose to join the correct path and are caught practicing in secret, as a deterrent of such action, we will also execute your family. Our way is not a violent way, but the time is upon us to act and save the world. You have ten minutes to make your decision."

He leaves the room, never having given you an opportunity to speak out. He returns exactly ten minutes later. What do you choose? Why? What are the difficulties in making such a choice, if any? How do you approach a problem such as this?


Dauer
 
What do you choose? Why? What are the difficulties in making such a choice, if any? How do you approach a problem such as this?
Click to expand...


This sounds like the choices some Jews had to make during the reign of Spain's Catholic monarchs...I am guessing that this is not a coincidence?
 
Nattering,

It was certainly one of the things that came to my mind when I thought of this, but this is not in direct reference to that. It's merely a hypothetical to stimulate thought and discussion over issues like life vs. religion/way of life/worldview, and to see how different people personally attempt to grapple with such a complex and visceral matter.

Dauer
 
"concepts, ideals, and or practices are in some way a violation of your own, whose acceptance and obediance would be a continued transgression according to your current path."
How big a violation?
It's a tough one because of not wanting to die, obviously, but also because of worry for your family.
I guess my hypothetical answer would depend on that question.
 
cav,

I tried to leave it open so people could play with it. So for example, another question that could be raised, is there a difference between the experience of this being done by a religion and this being done by some type of atheist entity? Is it more significant if they have a radically different worldview or a radically different way of life? But more relevant to your query: How would you respond if the violation was a small one? How would you respond if it was larger? Would your response be different if the small violation was something that seemed to run contrary to the thinking of most of humanity today? (say for example, at the beginning of each month each family was expected to aquire a mouse or some other type of mammalian pest and physically torture it until it passes out from the abuse? I'm listing the torture of an animal as small because, in this case, it's something generally viewed as a pest that we we already use inhumane methods to capture and kill. I of course still find this type of torture abhorrent.)

Another question I suppose, how do you pass on something that's in violation of what you believe/your way of life/etc to your children so that they might pass it on to theirs and help eradicate your original way of approaching the world?

Dauer
 
It would depend on the exact nature of this alternative belief.

In this world, and for my family I can't do anything while dead.

I'm thinking I would choose life...and knowing and this to shall pass, holding off for the revolution.

If however, joining meant I had to take over for the interviewer, make the same offer to others, and carry out the sentencing, I'd prefer to go with what I can do from the other side.
 
I'd go along with it in a heart beat. Maybe things will change later. I'm not gonna get killed over ideas.

Chris
 
Kindest Regards, Dauer!

Interesting scenario.

wil said:
In this world, and for my family I can't do anything while dead.

I'm thinking I would choose life...and knowing and this to shall pass, holding off for the revolution.
Click to expand...
I'm with Wil on this...I would probably tell them what they want to hear until an opportune moment, to quietly slip away into the woods...
 
I'm wondering if resisting and becoming a martyr will in a way make you one of them.
I mean the martyr and the oppressor have in common a fundamentalist way of being and thinking.:eek:
 
Hi,

I choose to tell him lies as he has lied to me. Their way is obviously a violent way, contrary to what he says. They proclaim their way is one of truth, but this cannot be because any “way” transmitted by coercion is not one of truth.

s.
 
In Zoroastrian belief the truth is always opposed by the lie. I know that for myself I began agreeing with what others had said about playing along but... second thoughts.

If I play along with the lie then I am empowering it, I am enabling the lie to become what it is not yet (according to the story), world-encompassing. I love my family and I love life but surely a line must be drawn in the sand somewhere.

Someone must say, "I believe you consider your way to be non-violent and empowering but your actions speak louder than words and your actions are violent and demean other human-beings, I cannot agree with you."

kiwimac
 
kiwimac said:
If I play along with the lie then I am empowering it, I am enabling the lie to become what it is not yet (according to the story), world-encompassing. I love my family and I love life but surely a line must be drawn in the sand somewhere.

Someone must say, "I believe you consider your way to be non-violent and empowering but your actions speak louder than words and your actions are violent and demean other human-beings, I cannot agree with you."

kiwimac
Click to expand...

What about the concept of yielding as in Taoism, like in some martial arts yield so that the opponent is thrown by its own force:)

Hypothetically, if no one resisted then perhaps the tyrant has no one to persecute/oppress, no one to quench the thirst for blood, no use for the lash.
 
I'd lie, and be convincing, and get my family to lie too...after all, better to live on ur knees than die on ur feet...
 
ON YOUR FEET OR ON YOUR KNEES.........


BLUE​


OYSTER​


CULT!!!!!​
 
Kindest Regards, Francis!
Francis king said:
whats the blue oyster cult? I was paraphrasing zapata..
Click to expand...
BOC was / is a 70's rock'n'roll band, perhaps you have heard "Don't Fear the Reaper"? They also toured around the San Francisco Bay area (where they are from) by the name Soft White Underbelly. I believe Snoopy was referring to one of their more obscure compositions.
 
In my mind would begin a prayer to God for help. It is hard to predict what God's will is for the situation. There is nothing wrong with learning anything new. I would be thankful to learn their way to gain more information, and be as expressely open as possible to learning this alledged truthful way. If pressed to disavow anything, I would inform them that I can not choose from what I do not know, so I would have to learn their way and verbage first.

If I am ignorant of their ways and vernacular then I would wait to learn more so that I can judge them with their verbage. Based on the description of kidnapping, blackmale, religious intolerance, etc... I would immediately judge any crimes being perpetrated and inform them. While a situation is obvious, it has to be placed into words so that the perpetrator can hear it. If that results in hostility then I would inform them of the obvious evidence that they are not peaceful, and yet I would not physically fight back. I would be as docile as possible with stated open ears, even asking questions... but with a sharp tongue. I would try to reassure them that I mean them no harm. Any inflicted punishment as a result would reflect on them, and it will permanently damage them. If people have been murdered then evasion or countering force may be necessary if the situation permits. It really depends on God's will and who can be helped, both the religious fanatics and family alike. Realize that all evidence says that life is going to end trying to either help your's truly, or to help someone else. Either it is contending with ailments of disease and old age, or contending with the needs of others. Better to lose a life trying to help others than to lose a soul.
 
dauer said:
cav,

I tried to leave it open so people could play with it. So for example, another question that could be raised, is there a difference between the experience of this being done by a religion and this being done by some type of atheist entity? Is it more significant if they have a radically different worldview or a radically different way of life? But more relevant to your query: How would you respond if the violation was a small one? How would you respond if it was larger? Would your response be different if the small violation was something that seemed to run contrary to the thinking of most of humanity today? (say for example, at the beginning of each month each family was expected to aquire a mouse or some other type of mammalian pest and physically torture it until it passes out from the abuse? I'm listing the torture of an animal as small because, in this case, it's something generally viewed as a pest that we we already use inhumane methods to capture and kill. I of course still find this type of torture abhorrent.)

Another question I suppose, how do you pass on something that's in violation of what you believe/your way of life/etc to your children so that they might pass it on to theirs and help eradicate your original way of approaching the world?

Dauer
Click to expand...
Bring on the mice.
I guess would probably torture mice just to save my own skin, with the added dimension of wanting to protect my family, I'd do it without much thought.
Exactly how big, or what kind of violation would make me choose death, I'm not sure.
 
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