Relativism sucks!!

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Silas

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OK, how do I start this without coming off mean? I dont know if I could so I'll just get into it. Um...Why do we have so many people who dont adhere to the Bible that call themselves Christian? The world is already so confused as to what being a Christian means, the last thing we need are more false coverts saying "Im gay and Chrsitian" or "Im a Christian because I got baptised," or "I'm Christian but I believe that religions are all different roads to the same God" or "I am Christian because I was born one" or the ever popular one... "I am a Chrisitan because I said a prayer and asked Jesus to come into my life." Why wont those guys just say that they're something else - shoot - I dont know, maybe say..."I'm spiritual," or something like that? Why say that you are a Chrisitan and you dont follow the Bible? Look, just so you know:

You cant be gay and a Christian. Thats an oxymoron! You're not a Christian if you believe that all religions are just different roads to the same God. You're not a Christian if you mother or father is one. You're not a Christian because you said a prayer and invinted Jesus into your heart. The only way to be a Christian is to Repent and Trust in the Savior. God does the rest. He does a supernatural work whereby your nature will be changed. You'll be regenerated or - to use a popular word - "born again." Until you come to recornize your worth and/or your worthlessness, you will not understand the gospel and therefore will be impervious to its truths. Only those who see their goodness in juxtaposition to God's holiness will understand their need for a Savior. Those that dont see their goodness as God sees it - namely as excrement, will assume themseleves to be good people and thereby lull themselves into a comfortable sleep only to be awoken by death's plunge. Of course however, it is too late then.

-Silas
 
Let me ask you something. As a predestinationist, what are you asking people to do? Repent? Turn from their sins?

But isn't salvation a work of God? Then why should you worry about anyone doing anything? If God is going to save someone here, why do you need to plead like you are? Is your pleading going to effect salvation in someone?
 
Namaste Silas,

I should stand back and keep my mouth shut but I can't, I haven't reached that point yet.
Silas said:
OK, how do I start this without coming off mean?.... Those that dont see their goodness as God sees it - namely as excrement...
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Absolutely amazing, thank you so much for setting the world straight. Can't wait for the book to come out, and the movie.

The Dali Lama says, "You know you are enlightened when everyone you see, you see as enlightened." And it is also said that, "Everyone is here to teach us unconditional love"

Silas my brother, you are a guidepost, a lantern in the dark, showing me how far I have to go.
 
I don't know...I'm for leading people to Christ through example and doing everything I can not to push them away...
 
Dondi said:
Let me ask you something. As a predestinationist, what are you asking people to do? Repent? Turn from their sins?

But isn't salvation a work of God? Then why should you worry about anyone doing anything? If God is going to save someone here, why do you need to plead like you are? Is your pleading going to effect salvation in someone?
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Yep. Remember, God not only determinds the "end" in salvation, but also the "means" by which we are to be saved - namely through the preaching of the gospel. The "gospel" is the power of God unto salvation (1 Cor 1:18). "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news" (Romans 10:13-15). You see, when we preach we have confidence that God's sheep (the elect) will hear their master's voice and believe. Jesus said "my sheep hears my voice." I dont have to persuade them or be a great orator or anything of that sort. I just have to give the gospel and "all those who are appointed to eternal life will believe (Acts 13:48).

God has a people from every tribe, nation, and tounge. Go out and witness, witness, witness!!:)
 
Prober said:
I don't know...I'm for leading people to Christ through example and doing everything I can not to push them away...
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Christ' example? You mean when He told people that He didnt come to bring peace but a sword. And how he came to seperate mothers from daugters and fathers from sons. Or do you mean when He said if you love this world you are not of His fock or that if you dont love Him more than anyone else you are not worthy of Him? If Christ preached the way some of you believed He did, he wouldnt have been nailed to a cross.
 
Wil,

In my tradition there is a teaching, "Who is wise? He who learns from everyone." I don't think that this means what every person believes s/he has to teach us is what we have to learn from them, but I do think that when you call silas a "lantern in the dark" you are not far off. He has brought so much to light in the way people have responded and reacted to his more extreme statements, also where people have come together, and certainly avenues of discussion have been open that would not otherwise have happened.

Dauer
 
wil

I should stand back and keep my mouth shut but I can't, I haven't reached that point yet. Absolutely amazing, thank you so much for setting the world straight. Can't wait for the book to come out, and the movie.

You and I both! I'd shake things up I feel.

The Dali Lama says, "You know you are enlightened when everyone you see, you see as enlightened." And it is also said that, "Everyone is here to teach us unconditional love"

The Dali lama was born a sinner and needs to repent and trust in Jesus lest He dies in His sins and face a Holy God who will not withold his grudge agaisnt sin. Jesus came into the world for sinners. If you repent and believe you will have made peace with God. If you dont you remain and enemy of His. Thats scary!


Silas my brother, you are a guidepost, a lantern in the dark, showing me how far I have to go.

I'll point you to the only one that can help any of us: Jesus. Read the book of John and let the scriptures interprate itself. Let the weight of Jesus' words crush you preconcieved notions of His and then cry out to Him in humilty until He changes you. You might have to wait or you might not, just keep crying out until you are born again.
 
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. Here's what I was attempting to say...

Heb 5:1) For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things {pertaining} to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
(Heb 5:2) Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
(Heb 5:3) And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
(Heb 5:4) And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as {was} Aaron.
(Heb 5:5) So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
(Heb 5:6) As he saith also in another {place}, Thou {art} a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
(Heb 5:7) Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
(Heb 5:8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
(Heb 5:9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
(Heb 5:10) Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
(Heb 5:11) Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
(Heb 5:12) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which {be} the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
(Heb 5:13) For every one that useth milk {is} unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
(Heb 5:14) But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, {even} those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 
Silas said:
Yep. Remember, God not only determinds the "end" in salvation, but also the "means" by which we are to be saved - namely through the preaching of the gospel. The "gospel" is the power of God unto salvation (1 Cor 1:18). "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news" (Romans 10:13-15). You see, when we preach we have confidence that God's sheep (the elect) will hear their master's voice and believe. Jesus said "my sheep hears my voice." I dont have to persuade them or be a great orator or anything of that sort. I just have to give the gospel and "all those who are appointed to eternal life will believe (Acts 13:48).

God has a people from every tribe, nation, and tounge. Go out and witness, witness, witness!!:)
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What if no one witnesses? Will God still save? What if I failed to witness to a certain someone, and the Gospel is passed from them? Are they lost because of my failure to obey the command?
 
Prober said:
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. Here's what I was attempting to say...

Heb 5:1) For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things {pertaining} to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
(Heb 5:2) Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
(Heb 5:3) And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
(Heb 5:4) And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as {was} Aaron.
(Heb 5:5) So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
(Heb 5:6) As he saith also in another {place}, Thou {art} a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
(Heb 5:7) Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
(Heb 5:8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
(Heb 5:9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
(Heb 5:10) Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
(Heb 5:11) Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
(Heb 5:12) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which {be} the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
(Heb 5:13) For every one that useth milk {is} unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
(Heb 5:14) But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, {even} those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
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Ok, I think I get what you're saying? But, what does this have to do with the post?
 
Silas said:
Ok, I think I get what you're saying? But, what does this have to do with the post?
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I'm saying...My beliefs are (I believe) quite similar to yours. However, I try to word things less strongly to avoid pushing people away.

The point is to bring people to Christ through nourishment which will help them grow and not choke them.

To make myself heard is not as important to me as a good example which may work itsself into the consciousness of others.

In other words, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you...:)
 
Oh...And since I try to keep an open mind about what I believe, I sometimes explore other ways of looking at things to see if there's anything I've missed "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good".[/FONT]
 
Prober said:
I'm saying...My beliefs are (I believe) quite similar to yours. However, I try to word things less strongly to avoid pushing people away.

The point is to bring people to Christ through nourishment which will help them grow and not choke them.

To make myself heard is not as important to me as a good example which may work itsself into the consciousness of others.

In other words, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you...:)
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You have a point there! I want to learn TACT.
 
Regards, Silas.
Silas said:
Ok, I think I get what you're saying? But, what does this have to do with the post?
Click to expand...
He was attempting, in a way much more polite than I was thinking, to tell you you might not be as correct as you think you are. That you are still suckling milk, when many of us here have long ago cut teeth and began chewing on the meat of the Word.

You view is not the only view. What's more, I doubt it is anywhere close to correct. And that is by using the Bible, all 66 books of it, to use as a guide. That is by appreciating the intent behind the words; the symbology where symbology is called for, metaphor, allegory, paraphrase and parable. That is looking at the Hebrew and Greek texts, and how very pregnant some passages are with mutiple meanings and multiple levels of meaning. Something it is quite evident is beyond your comprehension...does that mean you are created to be damned? By your own judgement will you be judged.

I have addressed the issue of proselytizing with you directly already once. If you cannot find it in your heart while you participate here to look beyond your prejudices and accept that others might understand a bit differently than you...that you are not appointed judge, jury or executioner...and that you might not actually know even a fraction of what you think you do...then I have little choice but to lock this thread.
 
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