Relativism Sucks!! Pt 2

S

Silas

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Question:

Why do people say truth is relative and that there is no absolute statement when that statement inself contradicts their claim?
 
Silas said:
Question:

Why do people say truth is relative and that there is no absolute statement when that statement inself contradicts their claim?
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As I understand the above statement it can also be said as 'truth is a three sided coin'- your version, my version and the real version. The problem with the 'real' version is any truth is subject to the observers interpritation- which is coloured by many different things, some of those are going to be the persons culture, background, already formed beliefs, outlook on life (glass half full/half empty)-all sorts of things will 'distort' someones interpritation of events or words in a book, God, everything. It's only through fourms like this website that we as people can learn to appreciate others views and maybe learn and grow in knowledge and understanding of ourselves and others. Even Jesus was prepared to adapt when confronted with something he wasn't expecting- the story of the Centurian who's servant he healed. By Jesus' own words he wasn't here for 'the Gentiles' yet he helped one when he showed greater faith that even his apostles. Then there's the gentile woman by the well who's argument that 'even a dog gets to eat the crumbs from its masters table'- this argument swayed Jesus into healing her daughter. (I think I've got that right- to late and tired to check, just going on memory).
 
Because the Enlightenment, starting off with all the best intentions, found itself backing up a philosophical dead end and unable to turn itself round.

So the philosophers looked again and thought, 'that can't be right' and began to review the problem. Out of Post-modernism and Deconstructionism is emerging a new optimism though, and the Continental Philosophers are leading the way.

Meanwhile it's the drum Pope Bendict XVI keeps banging, and eventually history will show we weren't being simply 'blindly dogmatic' when we refused to accept it, but speaking from a profound contemplation of more than two millenia's philosophical reflection.

Bernard Lonergan's 'Cognitive Theory' is the way to go, there's loads of resources on the internet. Very difficult, though, for a philosopher who recognises the philosophical value of 'plain old common sense' as the foundation of insight.

Chin up!

Thomas
 
The Buddha story, where a ruler asks some blind folk to describe an elefant. For the one who grasped the leg, the elefant was described as a leg, for the one who grasped the trunk the elefant was described as a trunk, etc.

All gave accurate accounts of the parts they touched, none of them was able to describe the whole elefant.
 
Caimanson said:
The Buddha story, where a ruler asks some blind folk to describe an elefant. For the one who grasped the leg, the elefant was described as a leg, for the one who grasped the trunk the elefant was described as a trunk, etc.

All gave accurate accounts of the parts they touched, none of them was able to describe the whole elefant.
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The Blind Men of Hindustan...

I believe in absolute truth just as I believe G-d is absolutely one certain way "I change not", etc.

The apparent variables in truth come from varying human interpretations of the truth, but there is one truth underneath.
 
I just want to say that God uses many different types of people with all their many different ways of doing things to do His work.. Moses stuttered... Simon Peter probably had a cursing problem.. but they both loved the Lord. Anyone who shares the gospel is doing Gods work no matter how they are doing it. There might be one person that reads this forum that Silas' method affects :) So I dont have a problem with his lack of tact hehe
 
Faithfulservant said:
I know..I know...

Rev 4:3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.

:) :p ;)
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clap, clap, clap, clap, clap...

You get another gold star in your crown!
 
Faithfulservant said:
I just want to say that God uses many different types of people with all their many different ways of doing things to do His work.. Moses stuttered... Simon Peter probably had a cursing problem.. but they both loved the Lord. Anyone who shares the gospel is doing Gods work no matter how they are doing it. There might be one person that reads this forum that Silas' method affects :) So I dont have a problem with his lack of tact hehe
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aww. I just love Christians! They are so blessed!
 
Silas said:
Question:

Why do people say truth is relative and that there is no absolute statement when that statement inself contradicts their claim?
Click to expand...

Perhaps because people mix "truth" with "fact". Truth is a subjective concept, wherein "fact" is an objective observation of a particular result, or action.

For example when someone states "this will happen". That is considered conjecture. Depending upon how well one knows the one issuing the statement determines how much merit the listener will give to the "promise" made by the issuer of such a statement. That is truth, or the makings of such.

When someone states "this has happened". That is considered observation, particularly if it can be verified by a third party. One does not have to believe the issuer if the "fact" can be verified, but in repose, the fact does cause the witness to believe the issuer.

He tells the truth, because the facts prove he has done so...

Let us look at this another way. The Bible is called the Truth. However, the bible's truth is based in great part on "facts" occuring and being observed, so as to prove the validity of the Bible's promises. This is where faith comes in.

I believe the bible to be true, because in the past it has been proven true or factual. So, by faith, I take the future actions as described in the Bible to be true as well. It's kind of like choosing stocks and bonds. Christians are betting everything on future prospects, based on past performance...

Relativism is required just as absolute boundries are required. Black and white provides contrast, shades of gray provide reality.

Life isn't a fixed cartoon. It is a painting or drawing with depth and shadow.

v/r

Joshua
 
Kindest Regards, Dor!
Dor said:
Back to post 1...some of us have been asking the same thing just no one can answer us and Silas was a little more blunt about it.
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I'm not sure how you can say this, I've been addressing this very issue for over two years here. Granted, one would have to look outside of the boundaries of the Christianity board...

BTW, Kudos to Faithful! Great answer.

Silas, I know you saw the question...you had to let the girl answer it for you???

Now...does anyone see how the answer relates to the OP question?
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, Dor!

I'm not sure how you can say this, I've been addressing this very issue for over two years here. Granted, one would have to look outside of the boundaries of the Christianity board...

BTW, Kudos to Faithful! Great answer.

Silas, I know you saw the question...you had to let the girl answer it for you???

Now...does anyone see how the answer relates to the OP question?
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Huh? What answer? Who answered what for me? By the way, Q. I'm not question if Jesus used tact or not. What I am questioning is if he were here today for the first time, would you accept his preaching. I think it was Lenoard Ravenhill that said it best, "If Jesus preached the way some preachers preached today, he would have never been nailed to the cross."
 
Silas said:
... What I am questioning is if he were here today for the first time, would you accept his preaching. ....
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Now this is a darn interesting question. I think it would make quite the book. Because odds are he'd either be trotted around by the paranormal conspiracy theorists or denied by just about everyone...

What about you Silas? If Jesus came up to you today, told you he was your lord and saviour returned, asked for you to leave your family and your church and follow him...would you? Or would you think it was some wack job off the street?

If he told you that he wanted you to practice unconditional love, that judgement was the father's, that you needed to accept people where they were, love them, and lead by example, not by coercement....would you?

If he told you only those without sin should cast the first stone...would it change your ways?

If he said love your neighbor....all of them....
 
wil

Now this is a darn interesting question. I think it would make quite the book. Because odds are he'd either be trotted around by the paranormal conspiracy theorists or denied by just about everyone...

If He came today for the first time the same thing would occure: The world (including myself) would hate Him and kill Him.

What about you Silas? If Jesus came up to you today, told you he was your lord and saviour returned, asked for you to leave your family and your church and follow him...would you? Or would you think it was some wack job off the street?
If some guy came to me and said he was Jesus, I'd laugh at Him and qoute Jesus words to Him..."If they say there he is, dont believe them. If they say the Christ has come, do not go out to meet Him." When Jesus returns, EVERYONE will know who He is. Those not of his flock would be hiding from fear of the that Great and Terrible day and the wrath of the Lamb of God.

If he told you only those without sin should cast the first stone...would it change your ways?
Nope. He isnt Christ. I'd problem hit him with a rock?

If he said love your neighbor....all of them....
I already do. God empowers that in me for His own glory.

 
wil said:
Now this is a darn interesting question. I think it would make quite the book.
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That is a darn interesting question.


If Jesus came up to you today, told you he was your lord and saviour returned, asked for you to leave your family and your church and follow him...would you? Or would you think it was some wack job off the street?
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Of course, the first time around Jesus did not go around telling people He was the Lord and Savior...He simply went about saving, healing, feeding, teaching. If I remember correctly, the closest He got to claiming His divinity was when it was revealed to Peter, and Jesus accepted Peter's statement that He was the Messiah.

He did ask people to follow him to the cross...to death. That is, after first telling them to "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is near!" So, Christ would be expected to ask us to repent (change our ways) and be willing to give up all for His Cause.

If he told you that he wanted you to practice unconditional love, that judgement was the father's, that you needed to accept people where they were, love them, and lead by example, not by coercement....
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Yes, this is the message I think Christ would still teach.


If he said love your neighbor....all of them....
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And this is His Cause.
 
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