Question

The unbelieving are just one of many types of sinners who will experience the second death:

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." - Revelation 21:8

How many of us can put ourselves in one or more of these catagories?

But let's expand on the concept of unbelief. What constitutes unbelief in this context? Is it willful disobedience to the truth? Untrust in God? Unbelief in the existence in God? Indifference to the truth? Ignorance of the truth? Unbelief in a particular doctrine or religious viewpoint? Unbelief on a particular religion?

Go further. What does it mean to be fearful? Fearful of God? Fearful in trusting God? Fear of ourselves? Fear of others? Fear of judgement? Fear of heights, closed spaces, the number 13? What kind of fear will send us to the second death?
 
The answer to these questions, including the OP would of necessity be context dependant. If, as Christians we look to challenge our understanding then we need to look outside the parentheses. Francis King gives us the hint with Heinlein's coined phrase.
Otherwise then let us only ask rhetorical questions to help us congratulate ourselves on our cleverness and exclusive privilege.

Peace
Mark
 
The answer to these questions, including the OP would of necessity be context dependant. If, as Christians we look to challenge our understanding then we need to look outside the parentheses. Francis King gives us the hint with Heinlein's coined phrase.
Otherwise then let us only ask rhetorical questions to help us congratulate ourselves on our cleverness and exclusive privilege.

Peace
Mark
Click to expand...

I have re-read this statement over and over, Mark. I just keep coming back to it. It is profound.

InPeace,
InLove,
Debora
 
InLove said:
I have re-read this statement over and over, Mark. I just keep coming back to it. It is profound.

InPeace,
InLove,
Debora
Click to expand...

I keep reading it, too. I really don't know what you both are saying. I guess I missed something.

Do you mean we should just have a simple faith and quit asking so many questions?

I could go for that...:)
 
I'm all for looking outside the parentheses, as long as we stay on the same page!

What context do you wish to surround yourself with?
 
Overheard conversation today...

Christian- Well Muslims call Christians Infidels!!
Muslim- And Christians call Muslims damned.
Christian- Well you wouldn't be damned if you accepted Jesus as Saviour and son of God.
Muslim- and you wouldn't be infidel if you accepted Mohameds teachings...

Argument ensued....

Niether one of them got it.
 
wil said:
Overheard conversation today...

Christian- Well Muslims call Christians Infidels!!
Muslim- And Christians call Muslims damned.
Christian- Well you wouldn't be damned if you accepted Jesus as Saviour and son of God.
Muslim- and you wouldn't be infidel if you accepted Mohameds teachings...

Argument ensued....

Niether one of them got it.
Click to expand...

Christians (the Biblical ones) says that everyone not born again will be damn. That is a hard truth, but a truth nonetheless. Why will this occure? Because man's nature is bad and he needs to be born again. Unless he is born again, Jesus said, he cannot even see the kingdom of God.
 
Silas, I think Wil was on the verge of sharing some highly enlightened thought and was just waiting for you to trigger it by commenting... dont get him started please :)
 
Faithfulservant said:
Silas, I think Wil was on the verge of sharing some highly enlightened thought and was just waiting for you to trigger it by commenting... dont get him started please :)
Click to expand...


I figured he was, because what he said had nothing to do with the topic. But, I didnt mind telling him exactly what Christians believe.
 
Silas said:
I figured he was, because what he said had nothing to do with the topic.
Click to expand...
Namaste Silas and Faithful Servant,

My bad, it seemed in line with the discussion.

Faithfulservant said:
Silas, I think Wil was on the verge of sharing some highly enlightened thought and was just waiting for you to trigger it by commenting... dont get him started please :)
Click to expand...
I was actually done, I didn't think it needed following up. It was just what happenned, it seems to happen quite often in our world, however not quite so succinctly. I sure wouldn't mind any of you triggering some enlightened thought out of me though...
 
Dondi said:
I'm all for looking outside the parentheses, as long as we stay on the same page!

What context do you wish to surround yourself with?
Click to expand...

{{Dondi}}

You know, I've always wanted to ask you if your screen name is a reference to the old comic strip but I was afraid of making a gaffe :)

You see I don't want a context at all, but this being the world it is it cannot be helped. I fully understand the model of Christ's sacrifice as it is taught here, and I understand the model that I personally cherish. Why others cannot see what you see is a valid question, but only if asked with a burning desire to know, and not, when it is all said and done only an excuse to feel good about being saved ourselves.
The mystery of the Crucifixion, and the resurection holds much for us to ponder upon and discuss but why do others reject it? Why when the model we have given them tells of their impending doom if they do not capitulate? The only way to know is if we put ourselves in their shoes, inside the mind and heart of the agnostic who simply cannot bring himself to believe in spite of himself. There is agony in the heart of such a one, and with compassion we can approach him or her and open an honest, heart to heart dialouge. I think the carrot and stick approach is somewhat pedogogical and simply would be rejected outright.
So what does Christs sacrifice mean? To us, everything, but to many others nothing and it is our fault and our responsibility to transmit the love of Christ now in a wordless way. Now we show rather than tell.
That dear friend is what I meant. And of course all are welcome to refute and reject this, and undoubtedly will, but if we keep doing the same thing we will of course get the same results.

Peace
Mark
 
Jesus sacrifice accomplishments

Kindest Regards, Inhumility!

As you can see, your post has been removed to another place. We had this discussion only a few days ago. You remind us continually that you are peaceful, yet you persist in raising an issue that is not conducive to peaceful interaction here on this board. I am taking the liberty of moving your post into a thread of its own on the Liberal Christianity board where the matter can be explored with much less conflict.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/jesusyeshuaissa-did-not-die-on-6570.html#post91294

-jt3
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top