What good is the doctrine of Predestination?

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Dondi

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What possible benefit can come out of the doctrine of Predestination?

For one thing, we are never going to know who God has chosen and who He hasn't, so who should we pray for salvation? What good is praying anyway if their destiny is already? Wouldn't such a doctrine deter our enthusiasm in our attempt in bringing people to the Lord, knowing there is no possible way everyone we preach the Gospel to will get saved? Wouldn't we libel to give up on someone with the subconscious suggestion that maybe the one were trying to reach is one of those destined for hell?


On the other hand, if everyone is on the same playing field, that is everyoone having at least a chance to get saved, then doesn't that free us up to go out and reach as many as we can? Wouldn't it motivate us more that the Good News for everyone? Wouldn't we rejoice in God's unlimited provision of salvation, knowing Christ died for all? Would we be more willing that God is fair in His judgement if, though we are sinners, He has made a way for us to come to Him? Wouldn't you make a way for salvation for everyone of your children, though they might reject that choice?

Even if the doctrine is true, what business is it of ours to get bogged down in such discussions? Isn't it God who will be the final judge of our souls? Why don't we just tell others about God's grace and mercy and let His Spirit do the work in peoples lives, instead of getting caught up in useless quibble about doctrine.
 
Everyone before being introduced to the doctrines of grace will assume all the wrong things. They will assume that Christians who believe predestination will become cavalier in their walk, they believe that we will not witness, will not pray for the lost, be arrogent, etc. The opposite is truth, ironically. Nothing so causes a person to witness and prayer for lost souls as one who believes in God's Sovereignity (look at way of the master for instance). Nothing can be so humbling than to find out that "no worth have I and nothing in my hand I bring, but simply to the cross I cling." Nothing causes such a strong faith as one who knows he is eternally Christ' and that Christ is eternally his. Nothing causes some one to be so bold than to know, whether I live or I, I am in God's hand. Therefore, will I preach the gospel with assurance knowing that God has a people who will actually believe this "crazy" stuff. These doctrines are timely and I hope every Christian would take the time to test it by the word of God. I had my introduction to these doctrines by a friend of Todd Friel who hosted the way of the master show when Todd was on vacation. You can listen to it here if you want:
 
Dondi said:
Let me ask you something, Silas.

Do all babies go to heaven if they die?
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Depending on your theology the answer will differ. Some say that babies arent accountable for sin until the age of accountablity. I havent stuided that so I dont know (it may or may not be true?). As I understand it now, everyone is born in sin and therefore are counted guilty supernaturally through Adam. But, do all babies go to Heaven? I think God has mercy on whomever he wills. I dont think there is any accidents or coincidents.
 
Let me ask you a question. Why dont you believe that God isnt Sovereign in salvation?
 
concerning the babies..

the scripture comes to mind..

For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required

Not much has been given to babies.. so Im betting the Lords mercy is great towards them indeed.
 
Dondi said:
What possible benefit can come out of the doctrine of Predestination?

For one thing, we are never going to know who God has chosen and who He hasn't, so who should we pray for salvation? What good is praying anyway if their destiny is already? Wouldn't such a doctrine deter our enthusiasm in our attempt in bringing people to the Lord, knowing there is no possible way everyone we preach the Gospel to will get saved? Wouldn't we libel to give up on someone with the subconscious suggestion that maybe the one were trying to reach is one of those destined for hell?


On the other hand, if everyone is on the same playing field, that is everyoone having at least a chance to get saved, then doesn't that free us up to go out and reach as many as we can? Wouldn't it motivate us more that the Good News for everyone? Wouldn't we rejoice in God's unlimited provision of salvation, knowing Christ died for all? Would we be more willing that God is fair in His judgement if, though we are sinners, He has made a way for us to come to Him? Wouldn't you make a way for salvation for everyone of your children, though they might reject that choice?

Even if the doctrine is true, what business is it of ours to get bogged down in such discussions? Isn't it God who will be the final judge of our souls? Why don't we just tell others about God's grace and mercy and let His Spirit do the work in peoples lives, instead of getting caught up in useless quibble about doctrine.
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The future is a multi-faceted potential. There are infinite outcomes. Predestination simply means God knows all of them, every possibility. Free will determines which outcome will occur for each man, but God sees all possible outcomes for each man. That is why the book of life isn't opened until final judgement. We all have choice, and the chance to have our names added in the book of life, until our life passes from this existence into the next.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
The future is a multi-faceted potential. There are infinite outcomes. Predestination simply means God knows all of them, every possibility. Free will determines which outcome will occur for each man, but God sees all possible outcomes for each man. That is why the book of life isn't opened until final judgement. We all have choice, and the chance to have our names added in the book of life, until our life passes from this existence into the next.

v/r

Joshua
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Based what you said with scripture. So far it looks like good conjecture to me.
 
I beleive God is sovereign in salvation. It is a scary thought to me to that God would leave salvation to be a self-determinating thing by man. Pink put it best, I feel, when he said:

"To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole humam race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellow-men are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity: is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated."
 
Silas said:
I beleive God is sovereign in salvation. It is a scary thought to me to that God would leave salvation to be a self-determinating thing by man. Pink put it best, I feel, when he said:

"To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole humam race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellow-men are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity: is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated."
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Salvation is an offer to man by God. The sovereignty of God in salvation is that He has the authority to grant it to whomever accepts the gift Jesus presented. The will of man will not be impinged upon by God (He declared it so). He makes that intrinsically clear. "Many are called, few are chosen..." (which means few will choose).

v/r

Joshua
 
Silas said:
Based what you said with scripture. So far it looks like good conjecture to me.
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If you mean I make a judgement call based on incomplete information...who of us doesn't? :D

Like you, I still see through a glass darkly...
 
Quahom1 said:
Salvation is an offer to man by God. The sovereignty of God in salvation is that He has the authority to grant it to whomever accepts the gift Jesus presented. The will of man will not be impinged upon by God (He declared it so). He makes that intrinsically clear. "Many are called, few are chosen..." (which means few will choose).

v/r

Joshua
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You dont notice a contradiction there? Also, you made a lot of presumptious statements. Where's your scriptural proof?
 
Quahom1 said:
If you mean I make a judgement call based on incomplete information...who of us doesn't? :D

Like you, I still see through a glass darkly...
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No. I meant that I dont see your scriptural premis at all.
 
Silas said:
You dont notice a contradiction there? Also, you made a lot of presumptious statements. Where's your scriptural proof?
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No, but you, I presume are considering the will of carnal man vs. the will of a saved man...and that is not what I am talking about. Carnal man is bound by his nature, and saved man has a will that embraces God...understood.

My point is that man chooses, because God gave him the ability to choose, and my scriptural proof is this (among many other scriptural points)...Man devises his way, but the Lord directs his steps. (Prov. 16:9)
Man, devises his way...man has free will. He can say yes, or no, to whatever comes before him. Even God will not take that away from him.

v/r

Joshua
 
Silas said:
No. I meant that I dont see your scriptural premis at all.
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Of course you don't. All you apparently see is your own, and everyone else is an idiot...

Maybe, you are mistaken, and others are not so deluded, or dumb, or blinded as you think...but the only way you might come to that conclusion, is if you consider that God deals with different people in different ways. Christians are not cookie cutter gingerbread men...

v/r

Joshua
 
Q, a minor point, but while potential outcomes are many they are finite.
 
Quahom1 said:
Of course you don't. All you apparently see is your own, and everyone else is an idiot...

Maybe, you are mistaken, and others are not so deluded, or dumb, or blinded as you think...but the only way you might come to that conclusion, is if you consider that God deals with different people in different ways. Christians are not cookie cutter gingerbread men...

v/r

Joshua
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I dont consider you and idiot, Q. Also, I do agree that man has a free will, but I dont see from scripture that man is sovereign in salvation and that predestination is based on God's foreknowledge of someone's choice. Maybe you can show me a few scriptures that do? How do you understand Romans 8:29 and 1Peter 1:1?
 
Quahom1 said:
lol, from man's perspective, or God's? :D
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Oops! Well it wouldn't even be anywhere near man's perspective... it was my own. Maybe I should say that observation reveals that the Earth has so far followed some laws that God made, and that framework places a limit on possible outcomes. Free will is more of a selection from those outcomes within that limit. There are many, many compounded outcomes, and maybe someday God will grant me more to choose from, but at this time a trip to Venus for lunch is not one of the available outcomes.
 
Quahom1 said:
The future is a multi-faceted potential. There are infinite outcomes. Predestination simply means God knows all of them, every possibility. Free will determines which outcome will occur for each man, but God sees all possible outcomes for each man. That is why the book of life isn't opened until final judgement. We all have choice, and the chance to have our names added in the book of life, until our life passes from this existence into the next.

v/r

Joshua
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I don't believe in "predestination" per se. I agree with everything else you stated.

As someone (I don't remember whom) stated previously, "If you left your kids alone in a room with a red button and said "play with all the other toys, but don't push the red button" and then closed the door, you would be pretty sure what would happen".
 
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