Silas said:
I meant Peter, when I wrote Paul. But, somehow, I feel you knew that. I think you just couldnt agument against my points and the above was your way of resovling the situation. That said, please do not think I am trying to convert you. I cannot! I am confidient that if I say God's truth, the Spirit of God will do the saving if He so choose. Later bro!
Hey . . . Silas.
Christianity isn't a science. It's not about right and wrong answers for
all people. There are right and wrong answers for individuals, but not for the whole of humanity. Answers and solutions to problems are different for different people, depending on their personality, race, attitude, life story, etc.
Life poses a lot of questions that need answering, but for each individual there may be a different answer. A statement that is right for one person may be wrong for another.
Let's suppose you're listening to a Sunday school story. After telling the story, your Sunday school teacher asks the class a few questions. Are there right and wrong answers to those questions? I would say
yes and
no.
Whenever we reason about things that happen in any story, there may be several problems associated with our reasoning.
1) Revelance -- unimportant details
2) Missing the point -- not focusing on what's important
3) Unessential concepts -- including ideas that are not important
A kid in Sunday school, as part of his attempt to answer a question, may include irrelevant, unimportant or unessential details in his explanation or response. For example, Joab kills Abner. Is Joab a murderer? Of course!!! But there is
something more important than the fact that Joab has just killed Abner. Abner is a high-ranking commander in the kingdom of Israel who has just abandoned his king. Abner is important to David because it gives him more of a sense of security. Abner has an army and has offered his loyalty to David. But Joab is jealous. Joab is the most important man in David's kingdom, but now Abner is taking his place. So he kills Abner.
Another example. King Jeroboam has taken over Israel. Solomon's son Rehoboam has fled south to Jerusalem. Jeroboam has a problem. The Temple is in Jerusalem. People want to worship God in His Temple. So they are moving south to Judah. To preserve power and save his kingdom, Jeroboam introduces a new religion. He tells the Israelites to worship golden calves. The fact that Jeroboam has caused the people to worship idols is less important than the reason why he's doing it. He's doing it for the selfish purpose of preserving his power and influence. It's obvious God doesn't like people worshipping idols. But why do people do it in the first place? They don't trust God. They need something more assuring. A Temple isn't enough. God wasn't enough for Jeroboam. So he created gods to save himself.
Concerning the idea of predestination. It really has to do with the idea that God is a far-seeing mathematician who can calculate exactly what will happen in the future, excluding nothing. Those advocating predestination believe that God has to see and choose everything in advance, and choose the best possible response. Sounds a bit like
game theory. That's what predestination is about -- game theory.
From the discussion I've seen, it seems as if people get polarised about predestination. It would, actually, be nice if people put a bit less emphasis on the word.
There is a difference between "the condition of being chosen" and "predestination," but there is one common element --
certainty. Predestination suggests that
future events cannot be altered, but that is
not essential to achieve the condition of being
chosen.
The condition of being chosen is a
promise, guarantee, assurance of something wonderful from God. God, who knows more about us than we do about ourselves, obviously has a better idea of what's important for us. If God has a better knowledge of us than we do of ourselves, then obviously God's choices matter a lot more than our own choices.
God's choices override our's not because He's manipulative and know-all. God isn't a control freak. He cares for us. If we've been chosen, He obviously knows and believes His ideas for our lives are better for us than our own. Actually, if you think about it, if predestination existed, God wouldn't need to do anything. If the universe is a machine, and everything in the universe is a machine, then there are
no people. There is no adversary called Satan, because Satan is just another machine. God could just wind up the clock, sit back and watch us like we watch TV.
Because it's a promise, it's also an
agreement and a
covenant. The course of future events may be altered, but God will ultimately prevail in His agenda. Whatever problems we face it will not ultimately affect our destiny or relationship with God. Our future is secure.
But that isn't predestination. A father loves his children, but doesn't have to foresee everything to know what's good and bad. If he's incredibly powerful (like Superman) he can protect his children from dangers, maybe every single time. Sure, he's not perfect and he makes mistakes. But he is always there to protect his children. God is a bit like that. Far-seeing mathematics and logic isn't necessary or essential. It's the power to protect. God doesn't have to be Father Time, He only needs to be a Superman Father.
God is obviously Father Time and Superman Father both at the same time, but Him choosing us has nothing to do with His qualities as Father Time, but more to do with Him being the Superman Father -- the guy who
doesn't need to see everything, but can
solve all problems.
(Father Time, by the way, is the masculine equivalent of Mother Nature in "naturalist mythology." Superman -- well, you all know who Superman is don't you? Should I add Father Christmas?
![Big Grin :D :D](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
What about Father Ted and Father Dougal and Father Jack?)
Predestination is a cliche. A loaded word that's overused. It's become part of the collection of banners and slogans that Christians carry around with them wherever they go. Banners and slogans are dangerous. There is more to Christianity than banners and slogans, and anyone who reduces Christianity to banners and slogans is doing a disservice to their understanding of Christianity and are not fully appreciating what it really means.
Predestination is one such slogan. This word needs to disappear. Christians need to use it less and less as a tenet and see it more and more as a poor way of expressing one's relationship with God. Predestination is not entirely the wrong idea, but just the wrong word.
Christianity isn't a science. It's about where we fit in as people.