Jesus: Tales from the Crypt

pfw said:
Any way want to point out something that might scupper the claim it's Christ? One casket is marked 'Jesua son of Joseph'. Wasn't the Jesus of the Gospels always refered to as 'Jesus son of Mary' due to (Virgin birth or not) the unusual circumstances around his conception/birth?
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I have a bunch of scriptures from the Gospels that say that Jesus is the son of Joseph:

Luke 3:23, Luke 4:22, John 1:45, John 6:42, Matthew 13:55

But many of these are spoken by people who knew Jesus to be a son of Joseph and Mary, yet wonder at His words or acts.

The only place I see Him called the son of Mary is Mark 6:3, but under the same sentiments as some of the other quotes.


I find it pecular that the discovery these crypts have been kept rather quiet after some 27 years. If this is such a historical find, surely we would have heard something of this when it was discovered, particularly if it threatens the backbone of the whole Christian religion. Why only now, at the advent of Lent, is this coming out? They make it sound as is they have found the "remains" of Jesus, Himself, but they haven't even found any bones. And even if they have DNA samples, how are they ever going to conclude it was from Jesus, particular since the DNA samples would have probably been rendered all but useless anyway by this time. what will they compare it to anyhow? (Maybe the woman that claimed she is from Jesus's Holy Grail line, perhaps? :rolleyes: ) All they really have are the names on the crypts themselves, which seems remarkable in that name Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. All common names in that day, proving nothing, really, but coincidence. Even James Cameron said in an interview that nothing was conclusive (all the while trying to maintain the demeaner that he isn't in this for profit :rolleyes: ).


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The hype definitely stems from the marketing machine...it is moving into full force in preparation for the mini series and ramping up discussions and articles everywhere.

It appears to me when the find was discovered it wasn't considered anything as all the names including Jesus were quite common and there were many Jesuses son of Josephs...wasn't until they thought the one box was Mary Magdelines name the conjecture started.... the '96 BBC version evidently had an uproar as well....any of you Brits remember this 11 years ago??

Currently much ado about nothing...

A thought on the radio today said if someone were to bring Christianity crumbling it wouldn't be Cameron, it would take Lucas or Spelling....
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, all!



I think it is important to keep in mind, as with any scholarly studies, that we are not the "experts" here. I doubt there is one among us fluent enough in first century Hebrew to decipher what is written, on the bone boxes or in Josephus. The only one among us who may be fluent enough in general Latin is Thomas, which may or may not provide insight given an original copy of Josephus' work could be produced (assuming it was written in Latin). Bananabrain might be fluent enough in first century Hebrew, but (with all due respect) what motivation has he to prove anything to benefit Christianity? (*To see the gist of what I am getting at, look up BB's absolutely excellent thread "Tilting at Windmills" about linguistic redaction*)

It is unfair of me to single these two of our fellows out, I do so only to make a point...none of us here is truly qualified to prove or disprove the assertions of these so-called "experts." The sad part is, experts can be found on either side of the fence, which only serves to further polarize the common folk like us trying to make sense of this stuff. Don't let it rattle your cage, it's not worth losing any sleep over.

I do think it is imperitive to consider the motivations behind these promoters...is there a decided bias against Christianity, are they deliberately hoping to attempt to undermine the faith? If so, then their motives will bite them, it will return to them to haunt them, I have faith. Now, if their motive is sincere, a quest for discovery of the truth behind the myth, that too will manifest in due course of time as people become better prepared to accept.

Faith may move mountains, but faith in lies and deceit only move fearful imaginings. It is only faith in truth as the truth is that stands steadfast to weather any storm that arises. Therefore, be not troubled with fearful imaginings.

It's just a stupid movie.
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It's a fair point you make and one I'm well aware of. The point I was making originaly was that there is almost no reliable historical evidence for Jesus. I brought up Josephus because it's one quote that's always brought up in any discussion about 'historical Jesus' and it seems that legitimate doubts have been raised over its authenticity.

Phil
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, all!

...........
I do think it is imperitive to consider the motivations behind these promoters...is there a decided bias against Christianity, are they deliberately hoping to attempt to undermine the faith? If so, then their motives will bite them, it will return to them to haunt them, I have faith. Now, if their motive is sincere, a quest for discovery of the truth behind the myth, that too will manifest in due course of time as people become better prepared to accept.

Faith may move mountains, but faith in lies and deceit only move fearful imaginings. It is only faith in truth as the truth is that stands steadfast to weather any storm that arises. Therefore, be not troubled with fearful imaginings.

It's just a stupid movie.
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According to the article, Jesus' brothers, as mentioned on the inscriptions, were Matthew and Jofa. Judas was Jesus' son.

Yet in Matthew 13:55, Jesus' brothers were listed as James, Joseph, Simon and Judas. Judas was Jesus' brother, not his son.

Not the same Jesus, eh? Where did Matthew and Jofa come from and what happened to James, Joseph and Simon? How did Judas become his son?

Another point: Why wasn't Jesus buried with his wife?

If Jesus was married, and he was buried with his son, I would have thought that he might have been buried with his wife. What an unusual burial. Was Jesus divorced?

Some Links:

Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)?

Did Jesus hav Brothers and Sisters?
 
Saltmeister said:
Not the same Jesus, eh? Where did Matthew and Jofa come from and what happened to James, Joseph and Simon? How did Judas become his son?

Another point: Why wasn't Jesus buried with his wife?
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It appears the conjecture will be that he was buried with his wife, that is Mary Magdelines box with him under the nick name...and I guess he could have named his son Judas, after his brother, or in memory of the fellow he sent off.."Do what you must and do it quickly" No 'Et tu Brute' surprise in that story.

But beyond all that the marketers of this kind of stuff are incredible. I can see them around the table.

"Well what about this old piece with the "Jesus" tomb."
"Wasn't that discovered and claimed to be nothing in the 80's?"
"Didn't the BBC do a program on it in the 90's and it flopped?"
"Why do you want to waste money on that?"

"It is just an idea but I believe the Christian right will go bonkers, put us on every headline and webpage and do 90% of our adverstising for us"
"Yeah, Preachers will say don't go...which means the congregation will"
"Yeah, just like DaVinci Code! I smell a blockbuster"
"This makes it all easy"

"Anyone have a problem that it is all conjecture?"
"We'll put enough quotes in that say it is improbable"
"And some experts that say it is hokum"
"But they won't be quoted! It'll be perfect, we'll make money on the original showing, the reruns, and the DVDs"

"Could be some spinoffs"
"Just depends on how much negative press we get"
"Negative press...whats that in our world"
general chuckles and laughter round the table...
 
Hi...Here's something I posted on another site about this issue. Some of us touched upon these alternatives last summer I think.

There are at least two other alternative myths concerning Jesus, Mary Magdalene, Jesus' children, and Joseph of Aramathea. In terms of locales they involve the south of France, and the west regions of the UK near the ancient tin mines and Glastonbury. Both stories involve getting Jesus and his family re-established after his tribulations in Jerusalem, after leaving his brother James the Just to establish a Jerusalem branch of the new followers.

The British guys that sued Dan Brown for infringement did some good research and writing as did some German authors, both of whom published in the 80's; but only Mr. Cameron and his crew, and the other recently proven hoax purporting to have found the bone box of James the Just, seem to have gained public attention in this circus that's taking place regarding Jesus' legacy.

Just to show you how influential the alternative stories have become, the late and great John Paul II worshipped the blue virgin images of the Madonna image that arose simultaneously in the middle ages in the South of France, and in eastern and central Europe. Coincidence...? Hmmmmm...?


BTW. the brother Judas mentioned above is Judas Thomas, purported to have travelled to Syria and South India to found branches of the early church, which are still going strong as contrasted with the Jerusalem church which died in 70 ad and was purportedly reborn in Rome under Peter and in Turkey and Greece with Paul's assistance.

flow....:)
 
*yawn*
when will they come up with something new to try and drag Jesus down.
This same old married to Mary crap is getting old come all yall need to try harder your lacking new material.
 
Dor--

I love Jesus as much as anyone you know can love Him. He is much freer than the traditions. He tells you that in your Bible.

I love you in Christ.

InPeace,
InLove

Edit: I am not saying that he was married to Mary Magdalene--at least not in the way you may be thinking.
 
Dor said:
*yawn*
when will they come up with something new to try and drag Jesus down.
This same old married to Mary crap is getting old come all yall need to try harder your lacking new material.
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who is yall?

It is just a premise to make money!

I read all over people hate Jesus, people try to drag Jesus down. I don't see it.
 
Awhh, geez, wil, and I was getting ready to get off here for the day.

You, my dear friend, do not understand what "Y"all" means. Let it go. It is colloquial, and it means something very good.

The yawn, on the other hand, may mean something different.

You know I love you.

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
You, my dear friend, do not understand what "Y"all" means. Let it go. It is colloquial, and it means something very good.
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I'm hip to Y'all, but just seems it is the same they as they. They are trying to do this, they are trying to do that, they are the problem. Now I percieve, Y'all to be a little more personal....so I'm trying to discover if Dor knows who Y'all is...after all it isn't me, you, flow, salt or pfw...we are on the sidelines reading the news Blazn posts just like Dor....so I'm tryin to discover...who y'all is.

and then maybe I'll know who the infamous they is as well.
 
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