Alternate Realities/Alternate Universes

[Quahom1]

Whoa, Mormons, other faiths is not the issue here.

The thread began to unravel in areas having nothing to do with alternate realities.

I love mind wandering, BUT, I want to read about ALTERNATE realites, and Alternate UNIVERSES, not specific religions!

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT... please?

 

[StrandgecK]

From what I understand of string theory, there is indeed different universes. I believe it is, at least in the case of string theory, a way to explain why gravity is not as strong as the other forces. It says that gravity can float between the different universes and the other forces (electromagnetism, and the two nuclear forces) cannot, and so while gravity is indeed as strong as the other forces, because it is not confined to a single universe it appears weak.

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,

depending on the version of string theory being employed, say 10 or 13, then yes, other realites do exist... at least in the theoritical model.

here is a great link for the interested reader to become familiar with this theory:

http://superstringtheory.com/

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Forgive my interruption.

Quahom, you say:

There is the light of stars shining brightly on earth that have been dead for over a billion years. We are seeing the last of these stars. When they died, we did not even exist as a species (according to local science).

The stars that have died -- as you say: "When they died", do they leave behind their 'earthly remains', like when people die, or do you mean that they become extinct, no longer exist?

About their light that is still travelling and we are seeing it for being some kind of targets facing this light, can we call that light the 'earthly' remains of those deceased stars?

When will the light stop travelling? When it hits the limits of the universe? for I read that the universe is not infinite. And when it reaches the ends of the universe, what then? It bounces back like light hitting the mirror, or it gets swallowed by the shell that is the ends of the universe?

Susma Rio Sep

 

[StrandgecK]

Namaste stradgeck,

thank you for the post.

i thought that this was the UP that upheld this concept, not superposition.

assuming you mean the uncertainty principle, it has to do with predicting the path of a particle. A bit different than finding its exact location or speed.

 

[Vajradhara]

assuming you mean the uncertainty principle, it has to do with predicting the path of a particle. A bit different than finding its exact location or speed.

Namaste,

indeed... i tend to abbreviate such terms to simplfy my typing

i beg to differ.

according to my information, the UP can be summed up as:

The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa.
--Heisenberg, uncertainty paper, 1927

S[size=+2]tudying the papers[/size] of Dirac and Jordan, while in frequent correspondence with Wolfgang Pauli, Heisenberg discovered a problem in the way one could measure basic physical variables appearing in the equations. His analysis showed that uncertainties, or imprecisions, always turned up if one tried to measure the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time. (Similar uncertainties occurred when measuring the energy and the time variables of the particle simultaneously.) These uncertainties or imprecisions in the measurements were not the fault of the experimenter, said Heisenberg, they were inherent in quantum mechanics. Heisenberg presented his discovery and its consequences in a 14-page letter to Pauli in February 1927. The letter evolved into a published paper in which Heisenberg presented to the world for the first time what became known as the uncertainty principle.

the interested reader is directed to this site for more information:

http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08.htm

 

[Vajradhara]

Quahom, you say:



The stars that have died -- as you say: "When they died", do they leave behind their 'earthly remains', like when people die, or do you mean that they become extinct, no longer exist?

About their light that is still travelling and we are seeing it for being some kind of targets facing this light, can we call that light the 'earthly' remains of those deceased stars?

When will the light stop travelling? When it hits the limits of the universe? for I read that the universe is not infinite. And when it reaches the ends of the universe, what then? It bounces back like light hitting the mirror, or it gets swallowed by the shell that is the ends of the universe?

Susma Rio Sep

Namaste su,

it depends on the shape of the universe... it's probably not flat. there are many theories about the exact shape and so forth... the most consistent one that i've heard is that it looks like an inverted saddle used in horseback riding.

 

[JJM]

There is the light of stars shining brightly on earth that have been dead for over a billion years. We are seeing the last of these stars. When they died, we did not even exist as a species (according to local science).

It has been proven that when man (or an object) increases in velocity away from earth (or away from us), that relative to that man or object, time slows down, but relative to us time speeds up. There is no room for debate on this issue, unless you know of physical laws that we are not aware of...

Hell, even standard physics proves this true...just listen to the sound of a truck on the highway as it approaches...and then passes by, and continues down the road.
.

What do you mean about listening to the truck? could you please clarify. As for your proof your reffering to the space shuttle clock being off. Is it not possible that it was something else. If you know of any other experiments please say them.


as for the first paragraph the thing about the dead stars is great but it doesn't change the fact that light years are in reference to the rate at which time changes on earth and not the rate that time changes when traveling at light speed.

Good question(s). Yes you are moving in three directions at once. It does affect time, but not to you, or anyone else relative to you or your position. You are in relative movement, and relative time (fixed to you). But if the EARTH should suddenly STOP IN EITHER ROTATION, OR ORBIT....you would become very aware of affected time and movement...in short order. Your relative time and movement would no longer exist, and you would now experience a new time and movement...if you lived long enough.
Hmmm, the Earth rotates at roughly 1000 miles per hour/ 1600 Kilometers per hour, and orbits our star "Sol" at 93,000,000 miles away, and does so in 365.25 solar days per solar year. That means you and I are moving at over 19,000 miles an hour, spinning at 1000 miles an hour, and zipping along in all directions at various velocities (some exceeding 1000 miles per hour). .

Is this some long round about way of saying yes?

Where is heaven?, and what is Earth? Does Heaven keep up with the spinnings and orbits of earth? If you were an astronaut who landed and (GOD FORBID), died on Mars, would you be within Heaven's realhm?
What if we make it to Taursus Centauri's tri-Star system, and die there? Is Heaven available to us?

What do I think? Heaven is a state of spirit. No matter where we are. Energy can not be created nor destroyed...only changed.

and I am the most foolish man I know, for I think I know something.

OK I'd assume that if you die in any of these places you'd still go to heaven. But how does what you wrote reply my original question about heaven. It almost looks like you just stuck a bunch of questions into the post meant to confuse those reading it and make yourself sound mystical. However I’m sensing some kind of anger here. So what do you say we put the hostility behind us and have and intelligent conversation.

__________________________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
Socrates

 

[Quahom1]

Absolutely no hostility coming from this end friend. I ENJOY your questions and thoughts. They make me reflect and question my own beliefs. And my answers are never intended to superceed yours or anyone elses. You pose a thought, I posed an alternative, or my own thoughts. Not right, not wrong, just different or even similar in areas.

I did answer your qestion about moving in several directions at once, then explained my answer, thats all (first sentence of my reply to the question).

No harm, no foul meant.

v/r

Q

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Mundane matters

I find the topics treated in the posts entered here very intriguing.

But being a creature of flesh and blood, I always ask myself how my physiological systems can take all these shiftings of universes, existing in very fast time frame and very slow one, as to survive what I would imagine are catastrophic traumas, considering just even the simple matter of food intake and elimination of the waste matters from the digetive tract.

Allow me to propose to the knowledgeable here in matters of time travel, alternate universe or mulitiverse, or fast time lanes of existence and being and slow lanes, the very mundane matter, but very pertinent and very specific, of making a cup of coffee and drinking it.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[StrangeQuark]

It has become very apparent to me that not only is there a lot for me to learn here, some of the places where I added my 2cents was unnecessary.

I have read a few books on these topics, however, that enjoyed very much. I did it as research for planned sci-fi epic and I'm glad I did, but there's obviously much more information out there.

I enjoyed Michio Kaku's *Hyperspace*, Hawking's *A Brief History of Time*, and (shucks--can anyone help me, I've suddenly forgotten the author's name) *The Matter Myth*. Many of these topics were included. fascinating stuff.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally posted by StrangeQuark
(shucks--can anyone help me, I've suddenly forgotten the author's name) *The Matter Myth*

I looked it up, and I believe it was written by Paul Davies and John Gribbon. Your local library might have a copy and, if so, it would be listed in the card catalog.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[StrangeQuark]

Ah, thank you Phyllis. I thought it was a pretty good book.

 

[Quahom1]

It has become very apparent to me that not only is there a lot for me to learn here, some of the places where I added my 2cents was unnecessary.

Your two cents can make the difference, don't ever think it is worthless (I'd stoop to pick up two cents in a new york second).

I have read a few books on these topics, however, that enjoyed very much. I did it as research for planned sci-fi epic and I'm glad I did, but there's obviously much more information out there.

yup, lot's of information, speculation, consideration.

I enjoyed Michio Kaku's *Hyperspace*, Hawking's *A Brief History of Time*, and (shucks--can anyone help me, I've suddenly forgotten the author's name) *The Matter Myth*. Many of these topics were included. fascinating stuff.

Anyone who authors a book that basically says "It can't be done", is a fool.

 

[StrangeQuark]

Certainly, Quahom. Part of the idea I had after reading Hawking's book was to suggest some way that it can be done, at least speculatively and within the context of a fictional story.

I may not actually offer that suggestion, but I will at least have the characters pull it off!

Oh, and thank you. I do appreciate the encouragement!

 

[tufty68]

I agree have always felt that there are infinite realities, timelines, universes, etc. God's role in this is a mystery to me, but I do have my personal thoughts about this.

Concerning parallel or alternate realities, I have become very aware of my ability to make changes in "my present" when I have a dejavu. Sometimes these events occur years apart, sometimes I will have a dejavu within minutes. But as I have become aware of these events, I take note of the events and/or people involved, the surroundings, and then I notice the differences as they occur. As more differences begin to appear, the dejavu fades.

I have always wondered what purpose, if any, these events serve. I suspect it is a built in safety net that allows us, and God, to learn from our experiences, our past, our successes and failures, and perhaps to select different paths.

 

[Avinash]

So, if it is true that God is omnipresent, and omnipotent, then the first part indicates that there are at least three planes of existense for us in this life. Unlike man, God is non-linear, in terms of time. And defacto three universes exist, or three versions of one universe.

Now does that infir time being set, and stages changing (universes), or time changes and the universe is set...or both?

Namaskar,

Nah, there is just the one universe, but it is layered as far as the consciousness (which is at the heart of it) is concerned. So your personal experience of the reality of this universe changes as your own consciousness identifies with the different layers. There is no such thing as time. Time is only used as a parameter to order perceived changes in the configuration of the material universe.

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Avinash,

thank you for the post.

Namaskar,

Nah, there is just the one universe, but it is layered as far as the consciousness (which is at the heart of it) is concerned. So your personal experience of the reality of this universe changes as your own consciousness identifies with the different layers. There is no such thing as time. Time is only used as a parameter to order perceived changes in the configuration of the material universe.

interestingly enough, there may be 26 dimensions in our universe, if String Theory is correct http://superstringtheory.com/basics/basic5a.html

further, there are some very good scientists that maintain that if the No Boundary Proposal is correct, we live in a multiverse... with other universes being rolled into themselves. it's all quite fascinating, in my opinion. the interested reader is directed to this site for more information on the No Boundary Proposal and related items:

http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/lindex.html

note, this does presume a college physics comprehension level.

 

[granni]

Re: Touche et parle

There is the light of stars shining brightly on earth that have been dead for over a billion years. We are seeing the last of these stars. When they died, we did not even exist as a species (according to local science).

It has been proven that when man (or an object) increases in velocity away from earth (or away from us), that relative to that man or object, time slows down, but relative to us time speeds up. There is no room for debate on this issue, unless you know of physical laws that we are not aware of...

Hell, even standard physics proves this true...just listen to the sound of a truck on the highway as it approaches...and then passes by, and continues down the road.
No, 1500 was not pulled out of my backside sir, or madam(oiselle). And arguing with you when physics are established on this issue is mute, unless you wish to take on the E theory, on relativity, or the special theories on relativity, and you intend to quote the bible, as reference...

(which you can't), since the reference(s) is/are obscure at best. (not going one way or the other...just letting us know there is something more...)

Good question(s). Yes you are moving in three directions at once. It does affect time, but not to you, or anyone else relative to you or your position. You are in relative movement, and relative time (fixed to you). But if the EARTH should suddenly STOP IN EITHER ROTATION, OR ORBIT....you would become very aware of affected time and movement...in short order. Your relative time and movement would no longer exist, and you would now experience a new time and movement...if you lived long enough.
Hmmm, the Earth rotates at roughly 1000 miles per hour/ 1600 Kilometers per hour, and orbits our star "Sol" at 93,000,000 miles away, and does so in 365.25 solar days per solar year. That means you and I are moving at over 19,000 miles an hour, spinning at 1000 miles an hour, and zipping along in all directions at various velocities (some exceeding 1000 miles per hour).

Where is heaven?, and what is Earth? Does Heaven keep up with the spinnings and orbits of earth? If you were an astronaut who landed and (GOD FORBID), died on Mars, would you be within Heaven's realhm?
What if we make it to Taursus Centauri's tri-Star system, and die there? Is Heaven available to us?

What do I think? Heaven is a state of spirit. No matter where we are. Energy can not be created nor destroyed...only changed.

and I am the most foolish man I know, for I think I know something.

what a remarkable thread! thank-you to all who are contributing!

now.... re:
"the Earth rotates at roughly 1000 miles per hour/ 1600 Kilometers per hour, and orbits our star "Sol" at 93,000,000 miles away, and does so in 365.25 solar days per solar year. That means you and I are moving at over 19,000 miles an hour, spinning at 1000 miles an hour, and zipping along in all directions at various velocities (some exceeding 1000 miles per hour)."

FINALLY, i understand why i crave the afternoon nap! i'm jes plain ol tuckered-out!
the next time the grandkids ask me, "what'd you do today, grandma?"..... i'll have an answer fer the wee folk. of course, i do anticipate an, "ohhh, grandma....!"

signed:

a wiser granni

 

[granni]

a fine greeting to all of you wonderful thinkers.....

alternate realities. yep. sure gets the imagination going, doesn't it?

time, gravity, and expansion and contraction of what we perceive to be 'our' universe.

re the deja vu experiences: i've wondered if a factor could be gravitational fluxuation. it's been theorized that time can be affected by gravity. therefore, would gravity fluxuation not impact time? time, in that small geographical location. right where you were. specifically.
add to that, that our minds only percieve existing in the 'now'. a moment before is past, a moment to come is future. so, we assume.
we've (not all) experienced those moments when everything seems to be a thing that's happened before. we know in that instant what is going to happen next, what is going to be said by so and so next. and as we're experiencing it... we're also observing it. noting. questioning. and, then it's suddenly 'gone'.... and everything is as it usually is. and, ocassionally we even ask another present if they were aware of what just happened.
therefore, did that time-slip cause a leak over from another reality? or did we just meet ourselves (and everything involved) coming... and... going?
AND... that it happened only right there where you were. It did not occur to others a few feet away.
Is it that some are more able to perceive it, and not others?
Although it's happened to enough that it's commonly understood the moment you say the words, deja vu. still, you'll hear, "it's never happened to me."

alternate realities: i think that gets back to that thing we refer to as time. i also think that we don't understand it in the least. as with most that we're discovering, we're only at the beginning.... which LMBO.. of course infers the usuage of the term... time.
that it is caused/exists by multiple dimensions is comfortably feasible.

way back a long long time ago, i'd read an article in Scientific American that refered to human awareness. i'm going to err in the usuage of the numbers.... but you'll get my drift.... and, perhaps have access to the correct figures:
mankind's awareness is: .153 - .143 of a second.
although my numbers are not exact (can't remember it well enough to quote), that says that anything faster than .143 we see as stationary and everything slower than .153, we're not even aware of.
that leaves a lot of room for the existance of other forms, totally oblivious to us. and, in our own dimension. so, it'd seem we'd not have to go far at all to just recognize that our reality is based totally on our perception.

i see it as more of a 'multiple realities', along with the probability of alternate realities. particularly when we also think in terms of the numerous dimensions theoretically found.
now, add to that...... for every matter there is anti-matter. it doesn't matter (no pun intended) whether we're + or - matter. what ever we are, there is an opposite.

so, what all of this means is that life as we know it is far more than we know it. and that's not only intriguing.... it's downright exciting.

i'd read Richard Bach's "Illusions". and, loved it. i got up out of that comfy chair, looked at that solid wall, knowing there are spaces in our togetherness.... and thought, "nahhh, it ain't gonna happen". much as i understood what he'd said.... there was no way i could pass thru that wall.
well, at least not as firmly indoctrinated as We are in the laws of 3rd dimensional existance. yet, i understood the possibilities. so i did dishes instead. watch the phillanges get 'dish-pan-hands'... and thought, "shucks, it's jes an illusion."

granni