I am Judas

From:CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Redemption

The real redeemer is Jesus Christ, who, according to the Nicene creed, "for us men and for our salvation descended from Heaven; and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary and became man. He was also crucified for us, suffered under Pontius Pilate and was buried". The energetic words of the Greek text [Denzinger-Bannwart, n. 86 (47)], enanthropesanta, pathonta, point to incarnation and sacrifice as the groundwork of Redemption. Incarnation — that is, the personal union of the human nature with the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity — is the necessary basis of Redemption because this, in order to be efficacious, must include as attributions of the one Redeemer both the humiliation of man, without which there would be no satisfaction, and the dignity of God, without which the satisfaction would not be adequate. "For an adequate satisfaction", says St. Thomas, "it is necessary that the act of him who satisfies should possess an infinite value and proceed from one who is both God and Man" (III:1:2 ad 2um). Sacrifice, which always carries with it the idea of suffering and immolation (see Lagrange, "Religions semitiques", 244), is the complement and full expression of Incarnation. Although one single theandric operation, owing to its infinite worth, would have sufficed for Redemption, yet it pleased the Father to demand and the Redeemer to offer His labours, passion, and death (John 10:17-18). St. Thomas (III:46:6 ad 6um) remarks that Christ wishing to liberate man not only by way of power but also by way of justice, sought both the high degree of power which flows from His Godhead and the maximum of suffering which, according to the human standard, would be considered sufficient satisfaction. It is in this double light of incarnation and sacrifice that we should always view the two concrete factors of Redemption, namely, the satisfaction and the merits of Christ.
Click to expand...

As I understand this, it is the Incarnation and the act of self-sacrifice which is redemptive. The act of taking on human life in full brings with it suffering and death...it's the fate of each of us. Whether we die by intense suffering, such as Jesus did, or by disease, or old age, human life is marked by suffering. The above also says that Christ chose a maximum degree of suffering as a act of justice. But, there is nothing otherwise special about a cross being the means of the suffering. It was...and so now is for us a symbol of Christ's sacrifice.
 
I like Judas...

Think, he HAD to do that... Someone HAD to do that... And he did it... I think the KEY thing is... He was SORRY.... Are we not meant to be forgiven? He was sorry and he threw the silver back in the peoples faces.... He being only human regret what he had done. IF this truly wasn't meant to happen your boy god would have stepped in wouldn't he? Humans would be mere ants to such a being... He could of just got out the old magnifying glass and said that's enough of your crap Judas.

But Jesus had to be sacraficed, and Judas was the push to make it move. Without him prophecy would have failed, or someone else would have done.. Good ol' Peter... Who denied christ three times! It might have been him ;/ would you still like Peter if it was?

..Go with christ brah.
 
Do you think Judas loved Christ as much as Peter? At the beginning of his ministry, Peter was a sweet, bumbling fool-- Judas was always looking out for no. 1.

I do think things would be different, interesting scenario.
 
One was an idiot, the other was selfish... They both had faults and both were just human :) jesus showed them both love though.. I think in the "after life" or whatever jesus would still show them both love ;\ If your the son of the god of love... Man think how powerful your forgiveness is... I could walk up and punch jesus right on the nose... For no reason... If I was truly sorry he'd forgive me... That's impressive.


Go with christ brah!
 
17th Angel said:
One was an idiot, the other was selfish... They both had faults and both were just human :) jesus showed them both love though.. I think in the "after life" or whatever jesus would still show them both love ;\ If your the son of the god of love... Man think how powerful your forgiveness is... I could walk up and punch jesus right on the nose... For no reason... If I was truly sorry he'd forgive me... That's impressive.


Go with christ brah!
Click to expand...

...then again there was Thomas...and there was Lazarus...

Options, options options...think God would leave himself to only one?
 
Now I don't believe Judas was a puppet, but a pawn. Nobody pulled his strings but as a leader you use folks for their strengths AND their weaknesses. As was indicated man has free will. Judas was tempted and took the bait, and according to scripture Jesus knew full well what was going on and let it happen, encouraged is not to strong a word based on his words.

Now I don't believe this makes any of it a farce, Jesus stated he came to fulfill prophecy..he had plenty of opportunity to avoid the cross, he had plenty of followers who would have seen that he was skirted outta town if that was what he chose...
 
wil said:
Now I don't believe Judas was a puppet, but a pawn. Nobody pulled his strings but as a leader you use folks for their strengths AND their weaknesses. As was indicated man has free will. Judas was tempted and took the bait, and according to scripture Jesus knew full well what was going on and let it happen, encouraged is not to strong a word based on his words.

Now I don't believe this makes any of it a farce, Jesus stated he came to fulfill prophecy..he had plenty of opportunity to avoid the cross, he had plenty of followers who would have seen that he was skirted outta town if that was what he chose...
Click to expand...
Judas chose his way. He knew what Jesus was about, and that did not suit him, so he tried to force the hand of God.

Maybe it was ordained, none the less, the "man" had a choice.

v/r

Joshua
 
Precisely. And didn't Satan "sift Peter like wheat?" If Peter was preselected as a back-up, I do not think Peter would have willingly gone along. He did deny Jesus to save himself, but Judas sold out for just money. Peter did make some bad choices, but he made more good ones.
 
Quahom1 said:
Judas chose his way. He knew what Jesus was about, and that did not suit him, so he tried to force the hand of God.

Maybe it was ordained, none the less, the "man" had a choice.
Click to expand...
hmmm I don't buy that. If that is the case, it would seem he was successful...not thy will but Judas's will, it don't sit well....hmmm...
 
Lets not forget the OT prophecy that He would be sold for silver... I think its pretty much set in stone that it would be Judas from the beginning when God had His plan. I do not believe there are variables in any of it.
 
pattimax said:
Precisely. And didn't Satan "sift Peter like wheat?" If Peter was preselected as a back-up, I do not think Peter would have willingly gone along. He did deny Jesus to save himself, but Judas sold out for just money. Peter did make some bad choices, but he made more good ones.
Click to expand...
What makes us think Judas willingly went along? He threw the money in the faces of the sanhedrin, after the fact...they used the money to buy a potters's field...not Judas.
 
wil said:
hmmm I don't buy that. If that is the case, it would seem he was successful...not thy will but Judas's will, it don't sit well....hmmm...
Click to expand...

Judas was successful because he was supposed to be sucessful. He already was a jerk, it's not like God had to change his heart. He let it happen.
 
What I was hoping to get at with my OP is that as little as I like to admit it...I have Judas in me, I have darkness as well as light. It's the reason I need a Savior.

Can you identify with Judas?
 
lunamoth said:
What I was hoping to get at with my OP is that as little as I like to admit it...I have Judas in me, I have darkness as well as light. It's the reason I need a Savior.

Can you identify with Judas?
Click to expand...
And Moses, and Abraham, and Enoch, and Job, and Ruth, and Mary, and Jesus...

Tis what I love about the bible, when I see action and reaction, and know that it is my autobiography written...I can use their trials and interject mine to learn from.

Yes of been the betrayer and the betrayed, the condemner and the condemned, the lover and the loved....

Have I set someone else up for a fall for my own personal gain? uh...yeah the judge not less ye be judged sure shows up strong in the story....as does that we are punished by our sins not for them...he didn't take it very well did he...

I've met a lot of people with a lot of different names...however I've yet to meet a Judas (by nature yes, by name no).

It also brings up the mirror concept. When we are troubled by others actions, it is because there is a part of us, that is troubled by the part of us we see in that mirror we call another. If Judas bothers you...it is due to that Judas nature in yourself....so says the mirror.
 
pattimax said:
Judas was successful because he was supposed to be sucessful. He already was a jerk, it's not like God had to change his heart. He let it happen.
Click to expand...
Consider the situation he was in, and what he hoped for his people (he hated the roman occupation, and expected a leader to throw the yoke off once and for all). I think the only thing that could be said of Judas was that he was "short sighted" (kind of like the rest of us, now?)

He also took matters into his own hands, and we all know what happens when we do that, without guidance...

my 2c

v/r

Joshua
 
Dor said:
Hey that sounds like what Silas kept saying.:)
Click to expand...

eh, not quite. Silas was content to tell the rest of us, that we had Judas in us, adnauseum. When someone comes in with a wound, it isn't nice to stick a finger in it and twist...that simply sets people off. You wouldn't do that to an injured animal stuck in a corner...they might come out biting and scratching.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top