Hello everyone

Quite frankly if a man is distracted by ladies bums then he needs to get a grip of himself and concentrate on his prayers. :p


;) with u on that! The hijab and other things are there for prevention .... and they do say that its better than a cure! And men being the visual creatures that they are .... it's just practical. But by no mean a concrete thing, you know. imho.
But i guess we should also take into account that each person has their own capacity and level of iman/faith.

Oh oh oh, regarding the arabic, it comes with time ..... It's also just another language anyway. Not a compulsory islamic thing one has to learn (though very helpful!)

I wish ou strength and peace, my sister
walaikum salaam!
 
But i guess we should also take into account that each person has their own capacity and level of iman/faith.

You are right sister but I do get frustrated living in an Arabic country with men telling me that it is my responsibility to stop their minds wondering. I agree I must play my part but I can't see why I have to do 95% of the work, isn't that why Allah gave us self control?! Sorry it is just a soap box issue of mine.

Oh oh oh, regarding the arabic, it comes with time ..... It's also just another language anyway. Not a compulsory islamic thing one has to learn (though very helpful!)

I read this comment to my husband and he ranted for a full five minutes :D "how many times do I teach you words and you just forget, you can gossip with the women from my family in Arabic until the camels come home but when it comes to your studies......blah, blah, blah. :eek: Well, I am only human and gossip is just easier in any language. :eek::D

salaam sister
 
So how are the arabic studies going? I enjoyed my classes i attended last year and i DO love languages.

All so interesting .... hope to continue it soon enough
 
Salaam MW and elme :)

Just for the record--that was elme telling you about the Arabic language taking some time...I'm sure it would take me a lot longer than either of you, as I haven't a clue, honestly!! :D

(Just didn't want anyone to think I spoke Arabic. Now, that could get confusing! Not that I wouldn't love to, but I'm still working on Spanish as a second language. :)

Again, elme--nice to see you around....

InPeace,
InLove
 
So how are the arabic studies going? I enjoyed my classes i attended last year and i DO love languages.

All so interesting .... hope to continue it soon enough

I just don't have enough spit :eek: Living in an Arabic country I find I have learnt more conversational Arabic, rather than classical Arabic for Quranic study. So if I want to talk about food, clothes, kids, moaning about husbands, etc then no problem but discussing verses of the Quran gets a bit more tricky. I know I must work on that more and gossip less. :eek: I will go and sit on the naughty step now. Do you learn classical Arabic? How are you finding it?

Salaam sister
 
greymare...welcome to CR. I look forward to your views, and

elme...
it is so good to have you back here among us.

By all means continue chatting my sisters...I'm all ears.

flow....:)
 
I just don't have enough spit :eek: Living in an Arabic country I find I have learnt more conversational Arabic, rather than classical Arabic for Quranic study. So if I want to talk about food, clothes, kids, moaning about husbands, etc then no problem but discussing verses of the Quran gets a bit more tricky. I know I must work on that more and gossip less. :eek: I will go and sit on the naughty step now. Do you learn classical Arabic? How are you finding it?

Salaam sister

oh there's a whole lot of [intended] time [on our part] to exercise those salivary glands ;).

If you're not 'feeling' something .... being drawn to it ..... leave it! Don't force anything. Time, oh time, you relative thing. It brings its lessons in its stipulated, necessary periods.
Not forgetting sincerity .....

I've learnt classical arabic. Not nearly sufficient, but the basics that allow me to read and write (very slowly!) I intend doing an intermediate course next time, going more into grammar, gender and other language rules. Perhaps once i'm fluent and comfortable .... and have the heart for it ..... i'll become a hafiz, insha' allah.

But in the meantime, i wish you all the blessings and prosperity!
 
Hee, hee - well you'd see our legs when our skirts went up. :D
now I 've seen the skirts that extend only so far and sort of blossom rather than bloom...so wierd m thinking is sometimes.
.... He stated on tv that there is no consensus on female Imams....I am all for womens rights in Islam but not sure I feel comfortable going this far but then I was never comfortable with the idea of women vicars - sorry I am just old fashioned.
Why do you think that is, what in your mind is the limiting factor...or a female Imam?
I certainly believe women should be allowed into all mosques to pray and without the silly partition.
funny for me I can actually see the reasoning behind this...
Quite frankly if a man is distracted by ladies bums then he needs to get a grip of himself and concentrate on his prayers. :p
Speaking personally the problem is once the mind wanders it is quite tough to get it back to prayers....or yeah we pray but for things we don't have a grip on...

Now I have some age on me, which doesn't deminish the grip I don't have...but sure can tell you in youth I joined religious groups not for the religion...but for the young women... It isn't that I am making excuses...again here goes my strange thinking process again....I'm wondering if the religious doctrine against swine doesn't also apply to the two legged kind...
 
If you're not 'feeling' something .... being drawn to it ..... leave it!

as salaam aleykum sister

Thank you, to be honest I am not drawn in this direction, I am at present drawn to gaining a deeper understanding and this can only be done in my own language. In time, insha'allah, I will transfer this to Arabic, as I am aware much is lost in translation.

i'll become a hafiz, insha' allah.

I will make dua that you attain this and guard it well, truly I hope that you accomplish this.

Salaam sister
 
Why do you think that is, what in your mind is the limiting factor...or a female Imam?

Hi Wil, nice to talk to you again.

Wow what a great question and not an easy view to explain in a couple of lines. I used to have this conversation a lot when I was in the military because I feel there are only certain jobs in the military a woman should do. It is not that I believe women to be inferior in any way but women on the front line cause issues for the men. Men grow up learning to protect women and then we expect them to go against this lifetime of training and treat women as equal on the front line. Been there, seen it, lived it and it does cause conflict for the guys, which is not what they need when bullets are flying. This is a much more clear cut case than the issue of female religious leaders.

In some ways I wish we had lots of female religious leaders, we are emotional creatures and this lends itself to a more nurturing view (yes I am generalising) and women are as capable as men of learning and interpreting scriptures. However, for me personally, it is a matter of roles. We are created differently, equally but differently. Men are less emotional, are physically stronger and tend to be more logical. Throughout time G-d has chosen men to be Prophets, not women and I trust G-d's judgement in this and all matters. Men are traditionally leaders of society and women nurture. Yes women are capable of being a CEO, Prime Minister or Pope but this is not our natural role, it takes strength and giving up something inside you to do this (I speak from experience). Of course I am speaking generally and could meet a female Imam tomorrow that I would feel confident to follow off the edge of the earth, however generally I would want a second opinion. Perhaps it is simply a matter of authority?

funny for me I can actually see the reasoning behind this...Speaking personally the problem is once the mind wanders it is quite tough to get it back to prayers....or yeah we pray but for things we don't have a grip on...

So I should be punished because your mind wanders? I am happy to pray behind men, quite frankly I don't want a bunch of strangers staring at my bottom but to put a screen around me makes me feel shameful, as though I am responsible for men's inability to get a grip. Should we build women only mosques so that men do not have the trauma of trying to concentrate?????

Now I have some age on me, which doesn't deminish the grip I don't have...but sure can tell you in youth I joined religious groups not for the religion...but for the young women... It isn't that I am making excuses...again here goes my strange thinking process again....I'm wondering if the religious doctrine against swine doesn't also apply to the two legged kind...

Thank you for your honesty. When I lived in Bavaria the local church had men and women seperated and I never questioned this. What I don't like is the idea that I should be taken away from Allah in order that a man's mind stays on G-d. Why should a man's prayer be more important than mine? Men pray standing side by side, the rich with the poor, the PhD with the illiterate and it reminds them to be humble before G-d, that no man is higher than any other in the eyes of G-d. Yet, in many mosques I am banned, I am not allowed to stand side by side with my sisters and be reminded that we are all the same to G-d no matter our status in this life. You must accept there is a degree of comfort in communal prayer, so why should I be denied this because men have a control problem? In the mosques I am allowed to pray in why should I be in a room a 10th the size of the room for men, with a tatty old carpet and no Imam, just a voice over a speaker? Women's minds tend not to wander in the same way so perhaps it is the men that should be shut away until they learn to 'get a grip'?? :D

Salaam
 
I agree with you on women on the front lines and certain jobs are more suited for a particular sex....but doesn't mean that some of the opposite gender are not also suited for that position....

As to the prophets...it seems to take three things to be a prophet...G-d speaks to you, the people listen to you, and someone writes it down. I seriously doubt that G-d speaks more to men than women....the problem is that often prophets aren't listened to, and for the millenia it has been the men writing it down and determining what was prophetic....women have been eliminated by men....not by themselves or G-d in this regard.

I can't speak to your religion or the rules on entering mosques or the various rooms....yes would be great for some equality or equal treatment...but don't we know that Allah is not just in the mosque? Can not women stand side by side someplace else? Seems wouldn't be long the before you made a new site holy by your presence and the men would want to stand and pray with you!

Peace and blessings.
 
I agree with you on women on the front lines and certain jobs are more suited for a particular sex....but doesn't mean that some of the opposite gender are not also suited for that position....

Correct Wil and I did say I was generalising, good heavens I was in the military and a Director of an international company in my former life. Some men make more nurturing parents than women but this is the exception not the rule. Some women make great leaders but again the exception not the rule.

As to the prophets...it seems to take three things to be a prophet...G-d speaks to you, the people listen to you, and someone writes it down. I seriously doubt that G-d speaks more to men than women....the problem is that often prophets aren't listened to, and for the millenia it has been the men writing it down and determining what was prophetic....women have been eliminated by men....not by themselves or G-d in this regard.

Are you aware of any women that have claimed to be a Prophet? I'm not but of course in historical terms they would have been burnt as witches. This reminds me of one of my favourite sayings "G-d is not prejudice - are you?"

I can't speak to your religion or the rules on entering mosques or the various rooms....yes would be great for some equality or equal treatment...but don't we know that Allah is not just in the mosque? Can not women stand side by side someplace else? Seems wouldn't be long the before you made a new site holy by your presence and the men would want to stand and pray with you!

I pray in my home, as most women here do but I do really miss the communal atmosphere.

I know you can't comment on my religion but my comments were directed at your post that said you could understand the segregation, so I was just trying to demonstrate to you how it feels on the other side of the fence. I too understand why it is this way but to protect men from themselves at the expense of women is, to my mind, the wrong path. Perhaps women should pray in mosques and men should pray at home until they are able to control themselves? :D

Salaam
 
I too understand why it is this way but to protect men from themselves at the expense of women is, to my mind, the wrong path. Perhaps women should pray in mosques and men should pray at home until they are able to control themselves? :D
Salaam


hee hee :D, funny ...
My husband makes salah with me instead of going to the mosque (which is right next door!) I don't like praying alone, unless i want to go at my own pace ( which is usually slower!). Is there not a verse in the Holy Q'uran that states the world is your mosque? I'm so sure of it. I know that during Ramadaan, people go to the beach to break their fast and take wudu in the sea and make salah on the beach ..... imagine it: A full "congregation" praying after sunset on the beach! Its a sight for sore eyes.




As for men one day being able to control themselves .... :eek:



Salaam!
 
imagine it: A full "congregation" praying after sunset on the beach! Its a sight for sore eyes.
Here in the states there was a man known as the sleeping prophet, Edgar Cayce, who dreamt a number of health cures. Anyway he created or his followers created a center in Virginia Beach, Virginia on the Atlantic Ocean. Every time I go to the Atlantic Ocean I like to get up at sunrise and walk the beach. In VaBeach everytime I've done this I've happened across and group from this center doing yoga at sunrise...the sun salutation is a wonderful thing, and they do it to the Lord's Prayer...as well as a number of other yoga poses. I've been at various hotels, I don't know if this group moves around, or if there a numerous of them, as I walk out, stretch, look up and down the beach and see one and go join them.

Large group prayer is awesome....and yes on the beach with scantily clad women...my mind does wander, or wonder....if we didn't have testosterone what would we blame?
 
alhamdolillah, elme you have a wonderful husband.

Do the women also pray on the beach? This must be awesome, I would love to experience something like this.

Men, control themselves .......... oh a pig just flew past my window.

Salaam my sister
 
i do not understand when you say that at certain mosques you're banned from salahing next to your sisters .... no woman should be turned away from a mosque, where do they come on that? Surely there is no Q'uranic justification for this?!

At the beaches, the women all stand behind the men. They lead us, like my husband is my imam. At madrassa, the women all stand behind the men during salah. Most of the mosques here in Cape Town have galleries for the womens' salah area, big enough and well carpeted. Yet also with the curtained screen just high enough not to see downstairs.
There are some with a completely different room on the ground floor that is walled off from the men, with only the loudspeaker to hear the procession. But i choose not to attend those. And might i add that those mosques with the galleries are more well attended by women!

Your stance of first coming to grips with the essence and jurisprudence of islam in your own language is oh so valid. It just complicates one's learning when you're trying to extract the essence of something while still learning the binary code! Just go with what you know is best because we all have our own ways of learning, studying, praying, thinking and reasoning.

*sigh* It's sometimes endearing to see how our men have to fight to control their nafs! They're so visual! And it's just their nature like when we can read between the lines what they're saying (sometimes) .... My hubby just gives me a sheepish smile and i know .... coffee. Or a certain way he turns around in his chair .... the mug of steaming java is usually there before i have to see that silly boy smile!
But i know what you're saying .... i feel the same way. Yet tradition is always hard to challenge, especially when your sisters don't got your back.

Peace, Love & Light
elmethra
 
i do not understand when you say that at certain mosques you're banned from salahing next to your sisters .... no woman should be turned away from a mosque, where do they come on that? Surely there is no Q'uranic justification for this?!

I can find no Quranic justification, which is why this makes me so angry. The more traditional schools state that Omar & Aisha (pbut) banned women from attending mosques because they misbehaved and as this became part of the Sunnah we must all follow it. Sorry but to me it is purely man made and unjustifiable. When I point out the Quranic verse instructing All believers to attend the mosque, I am shown the verse which states it is better for women to remain in their homes. Then we have the long circular conversation which usually ends in my being told I am a woman therefore cannot possibly understand the technicalities. Oh it makes me so mad :( Of course these are the same men that insist I should dress with only one eye showing - to me this is sheer insanity.

I am only aware of one mosque in my town that allows women and my husband does not allow me to go because the women that do attend have reputations of being 'rebellious' and reputation is everything here for a woman. However, during Ramadan they do put up large tents for the women to hold congregational prayer but I haven't been brave enough to go yet, they pray so quickly I am afraid I will get lost. :eek:

Cairo is a different matter, I love to go there. The harem in the main mosque is pretty shabby so I go to the mosque of lights - it is so beautiful. They just have light curtains to seperate the men and women, as you pray the breeze blows the curtains lightly and you can really 'feel' Allah. The Imam's there are aware they have many foreign visitors praying so they go at a speed I can follow. I think it is interesting to note that this is the mosque most frequented by women - gosh I wonder why? :D

*sigh* It's sometimes endearing to see how our men have to fight to control their nafs! They're so visual! And it's just their nature

I think that is the secret to a happy marriage - just accept you are married to a large child. :D

Yet tradition is always hard to challenge, especially when your sisters don't got your back.

Absolutely correct. Try walking in my town with nail polish on, women actually stop you in the street to show you the 'errors of your ways'. I wouldn't mind but I know half of them haven't looked at the Quran since school but this doesn't stop them being so opinionated.

Gosh I seem to do nothing but rant when I talk to you, sorry. It is just so nice to be able to speak to a sister in my own language - a rare treat indeed.

My Allah bless you and give you peace my dear sister.
Salaam
 
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