More about Hell

I should hope not. I know better than to let humans choose a hellish state for all eternity. I just dont think I could let that one slip by my all seeing eye.
 
and yeah those things are scary. I was terrified when someone witnessed to me about revelation back in 3rd grade. They told me the world was ending and the middle east situation proved it (this was before or during the gulf war)

I had nightmares about people being thrown into a huge lake of fire, or the sun exploding or stuff like that.

I dont see whats so great about being judgemental... whats so great about that. this world is so messed up, people are dying, kids are being soldiers (both here and of course in countries where kids are like 8 and 10 years old) people are exploited. while we have conversations about god, people are dying and suffering with disease, denied treatment because of shifty medicine moneymakers, people are being butchered with malatov cocktails, suicide bombs, machetes,its ridiculous. in america all the middle class people watch tv and BS and have their careers where in indonesia women and girls are making nike sneakers. its just insane. and after putting up with this wretched world, we turn to god. and god doesnt show up, he condemns us all, he fixes nothing for us, and if we dont like his ways we can go to hell, which is where we are headed for anyway since we are all not perfect like god. god is the most selfish thing in existance. nothing can get him down! and why does he let satan running around trying to lead people to hell. and why does he let people reject him forever. I mean come on, the most perfect being in creation wont help someone in hell? he turns a blind eye forever and doesnt give a second chance?

and why is judging so great. isnt judging bad? nothing makes sense at all.
 
I'm sorry you had nightmares, obviously the person "witnessing" didn't really explain it.

Define what you mean by judgemental.
kids are being soldiers
people are exploited
people are dying and suffering with disease
denied treatment because of shifty medicine moneymakers
people are being butchered with malatov cocktails
suicide bombs
machetes
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This is NOT God.
he turns a blind eye forever and doesnt give a second chance?
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Where are you getting this? Christianity is all about 2nd chances (and 3rd, 4th, etc...) That is how much He truly loves you.
 
yeah but no second chance after death. why does god decide after a while "OK Im done with you, now the decision is final and you can never go back"

whats the point of doing that?
 
Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

shadowman said:
no, none of that really makes sense
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Hebrews 5 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.my bad, shadowbaby, i mean shadowman. i have fed you meat when i should be feeding you milk. you are still unskilled in the words of righteousness, for you are still like a baby. again, i am sorry. i thought you could handle "meat". i hope i didn't confuse you. does that make sense?
 
shadowman said:
yeah but no second chance after death. why does god decide after a while "OK Im done with you, now the decision is final and you can never go back"

whats the point of doing that?
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Each day, while one is alive, is a second chance. At death, chances have been used up (imo). This seems to me rather generous.:)
 
Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

LeoSalinas22 said:
Hebrews 5 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.my bad, shadowbaby, i mean shadowman. i have fed you meat when i should be feeding you milk. you are still unskilled in the words of righteousness, for you are still like a baby. again, i am sorry. i thought you could handle "meat". i hope i didn't confuse you. does that make sense?
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you could just explain what you initially posted.

also I find it funny that god lets people eat meat in the bible.

humans dont have the teeth structure to properly eat meat. and we are not biologically fit to eat it raw. It should be noted that we also do not relish biting into the jugular of an animal to kill it, we do not relish the taste of raw meat, and most of us dont relish the the idea of brutally killing our food, and feeling hot blod dribble down our chins. are we naturally supposed to be eating meat at all? some people think not. but this is debateable
 
Prober said:
Each day, while one is alive, is a second chance. At death, chances have been used up (imo). This seems to me rather generous.:)
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how on earth do you come up with parameters of language to describe things as generous when we are dealing with the scenario in question? By calling this action generous are you trying to make me feel guilty?

seriously though, how do you come up with definitions for generous and just and fair when dealing with this creator to creation dynamic. when a creator creates things, are their fixed rules that say "what everyone deserves" or something?

torture guy: just tell me where the rebel base is! Im giving you another chance, it will be too late one day. Im being generous.
 
the thing Im saying, is that a creator doesnt have to even think about hell, it doesnt have to cross his mind. he is omniscient and knows all and has the ability to create will or at least think about ANYTHING.

so why would he create a reality where conscious beings get tortured one way or another. all you guys are doing is saying how he justifies it.

but really, can something like this REALLY be justified? Can we really say that there are parameters where people deserve and should be tortured for all time? Im seeing that the christian answer is yes, in some cases it is ok for humans to be tormented forever.
 
shadowman said:
so why would he create a reality where conscious beings get tortured one way or another. all you guys are doing is saying how he justifies it.

but really, can something like this REALLY be justified?
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Christian experience is a spiritual sense, taste, or relish of the goodness, sweetness, and excellence of the truths in the gospel. Words can’t really express the satisfaction in which the soul receives from the sense of Divine goodness, grace, and love we have in Christ. But it sure can be justified.
 
shadowman said:
how on earth do you come up with parameters of language to describe things as generous when we are dealing with the scenario in question? By calling this action generous are you trying to make me feel guilty?

seriously though, how do you come up with definitions for generous and just and fair when dealing with this creator to creation dynamic. when a creator creates things, are their fixed rules that say "what everyone deserves" or something?
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Does not a creator have all power and authority over his creation?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not." Lamentations 3:22[/FONT]
 
Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

shadowman said:
humans dont have the teeth structure to properly eat meat. and we are not biologically fit to eat it raw. It should be noted that we also do not relish biting into the jugular of an animal to kill it, we do not relish the taste of raw meat, and most of us dont relish the the idea of brutally killing our food, and feeling hot blod dribble down our chins. are we naturally supposed to be eating meat at all? some people think not.
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I completely agree with you here.:)
 
Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

shadowman said:
you could just explain what you initially posted.

also I find it funny that god lets people eat meat in the bible.
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This is Hebrews 5:11-14 from The Message

I have a lot more to say about this, but it is hard to get it across to you since you've picked up this bad habit of not listening. By this time you ought to be teachers yourselves, yet here I find you need someone to sit down with you and go over the basics on God again, starting from square one—baby's milk, when you should have been on solid food long ago! Milk is for beginners, inexperienced in God's ways; solid food is for the mature, who have some practice in telling right from wrong.

It HAS absolutely nothing to do with eating habits.:D
 
Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

shadowman said:
you could just explain what you initially posted.
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weren't you the one asking (mumbling)"why doesn't he just appear and we all change?" well, God did just that in Exodus and did the israelites change? no. they kept clinging on to egypt and its riches. same as we seem to cling on to this world and its "riches". don't you read the bible, shadow? or do you just judge God by what you read in newspapers, see on tv or movies or what other people tell you? read the bible for yourself shadow. "gird your loins like an able-bodied man."
I Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
also I find it funny that god lets people eat meat in the bible.
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really? why do you think that is funny?

humans dont have the teeth structure to properly eat meat. and we are not biologically fit to eat it raw. It should be noted that we also do not relish biting into the jugular of an animal to kill it, we do not relish the taste of raw meat, and most of us dont relish the the idea of brutally killing our food, and feeling hot blod dribble down our chins. are we naturally supposed to be eating meat at all? some people think not. but this is debateable
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gee, it could be because man actually cooks their food and has sharp tools to cut their food with! why are you comparing our eating habits to that of animals.? i take it you don't like hamburgers or bar-b-que?
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shadowman said:
christianity = fear of hell. in every case. in every convert. in every follower...

when you realize what god has done for you, you will see how much he loves you

this is the big argument of christianity.

its a dark, bleak statement.

lets break it down

does this have a gloomy overtone... adreadful overtone?

yes it does

what is god doing, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. IT is insane. IT is the only way out.... but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

are you telling me this isnt a fear based religion?

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him



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talk to any chrisitian and you will see someone who is relieved that they dont go to hell.

is saving from hell good? yes.

is creating people and letting them live in a world where you find them all worthy of hell and you fully intend and carry out the promise of sending them there but offer them a way out knowing that many will go to hell anyway good?

no

end of story

want to know what that is.

passive agressive. in a nutshell. look it up.



imagine I visit my friend who is an animal enthusiast who raises animals. lets say while he is out working I kill one of his animals and cook it for him for dinner

is cooking him dinner good? yes

is killing one of his animals and using it to cook him dinner good?

no passive aggressive
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What Really Is Hell? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
 
Hellfire—Is
It Part of Divine Justice?​

Have you ever seen someone tortured? I hope not. Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent. What, though, of torture inflicted by God? Can you imagine such a thing? Yet, this is exactly what is implied by the teaching of hellfire, an official doctrine in many religions.​


Imagine, for a moment, the following horrific scene: A person is being roasted on a hot iron plate. In his agony he screams for mercy, but nobody listens. The torture goes on and on, hour after hour, day after day—without pause!​


Whatever crime the victim may have committed, would not your heart go out to him? What of the one who ordered the torture? Could he be a loving person? In no way! Love is merciful and shows pity. A loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them!​


Nevertheless, many religions teach that God tortures sinners in an eternal hellfire. This, it is claimed, is divine justice. If that is true, who created that terrible place of eternal torment? And who is responsible for the excruciating agonies inflicted there? The answers would seem obvious. If such a place really exists, then God would have to be the creator of it, and he would be responsible for what happens there.​


Can you accept that? The Bible says: "God is love." (1 John 4:8) Would a God of love inflict torture that even humans with any measure of decency find revolting? Surely not!​


An​



Unreasonable Teaching​

Still, many believe that the wicked will go to a fiery hell and be tormented forever. Is this teaching logical? The human life span is limited to 70 or 80 years. Even if someone perpetrated extreme wickedness for his whole lifetime, would everlasting torment be a just punishment? No. It would be grossly unjust to torment a man forever for the limited number of sins that he can commit in a lifetime.​


Who knows the truth about what happens after we die? Only God can reveal this information, and he has done so in his written Word, the Bible. Here is what the Bible says: "As the [beast] dies, so the [man] dies; and they all have but one spirit . . . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust." (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell. Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die.​


In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious. Are the dead conscious? No. "The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) It is impossible for the dead, "conscious of nothing at all," to experience the agonies of hellfire.​


A​



Harmful Doctrine​

Some maintain that the teaching of hellfire is useful, true or not. Why? They say it serves as a deterrent to wrongdoing. Is that true? Well, is the crime rate in regions where people believe in hellfire lower than in other places? Hardly! In fact, the doctrine of hellfire is very harmful. Will a person who believes that God torments people view torture as something abhorrent? Why should he? Those believing in a cruel god often become cruel like their god.​


In whatever way a reasonable person may look at the matter, he cannot accept the existence of a hell of torment. Logic rebels against it. Human nature is repelled by it. More important, God’s Word does not say that such a place exists. When a person dies, "he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish."—Psalm 146:4.​


What​



Punishment for Sin?​

Does that mean that we are not punished for our sins? No, that is not the case. Our holy God punishes sinners, but he does not torture them. And when sinners repent, he forgives them. What is the punishment for sin? The Bible gives a forthright answer: "The wages sin pays is death." (Romans 6:23) Life is a gift from God. When we sin we no longer deserve that gift, and we die.​


You may ask: ‘How is that just? Why, everyone dies!’ That is true because we are all sinners. In effect, no one deserves life. "Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned."—Romans 5:12.​


At this point you may be thinking: ‘If we all sin and so we all die, why should we try to be virtuous? It seems that the wicked man is treated exactly the same as the man who tries to serve God.’ But that is not the case. Although we are all sinners, God forgives those who sincerely repent and try to change their ways. He rewards our efforts to ‘make our minds over’ and to do good. (Romans 12:2) These truths are the basis of a marvelous hope.​


A​



Reward for the Good​

We cease to exist when we die. But that does not mean that everything is finished. The faithful man Job knew that he would go to the grave (Sheol) when he died. But listen to his prayer to God: "O that in Sheol you would conceal me, that you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? . . . You will call, and I myself shall answer you."—Job 14:13-15.​


Job believed that if he was faithful until death, he would be remembered by God and resurrected. This was the belief of all of God’s servants in ancient times. Jesus himself confirmed this hope when he said: "The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."—John 5:28, 29.​


When will the resurrection begin? According to the Bible, very soon. Bible prophecy indicates that in 1914 this world entered into its "last days." (2 Timothy 3:1) In what many call ‘the end of the world,’ God will very shortly remove wickedness and establish a new world under heavenly rulership.—Matthew, chapter 24; Mark, chapter 13; Luke, chapter 21; Revelation 16:14.​


The result will be a paradise covering the whole earth and inhabited by those who have sincerely tried to serve God. Wicked people will not burn in hellfire, but they will have no place in the coming Paradise. At Psalm 37:10, 11, we read: "The wicked one will be no more; and you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."​


Is all of this just a dream? No, it is God’s promise. In the Bible we read: "I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.’"—Revelation 21:3, 4.​

Do you believe these words? You should. God’s word always comes true. (Isaiah 55:11) ​
 
doesnt the bible also say that ungodly men are destroyed. and those that sin shall die and perish?
 
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