More about Hell

[Dondi]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

I think this thread and OP is inappropriate for this forum.

I'm recommending that it be reviewed by the staff...but I'm not going to close it now as I see it has lead to some interesting discussion.

I see no reason to close it, IMO. The OP is an issue that is of genuine concern. People have differing opinions about who Jesus is that ought to be addressed. I'm hoping to dispel the idea of a vindictive God that is bent on tossing people arbitrarily into the abyss. The current discussion between 17th and myself is rather stimulating. There is emotion to be sure, but I don't see it as a personal attack at this junction. Stuffed under all the rhetoric is someone who is admittedly confused about the issue.

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

How do you know that hell isn't a natural default for people who do not know God? If God is light, warmth, joy, peace, love, where in His presence is no pain, no sorrow, no sin, no more tears, then Hell would be the direct opposite: outer darkness, pain, sorrow, wailing and gnashing of teeth, despair, unrest, hate. God is the sustainer of life, being Creator of it, and so only in His presence will we be able to find life. God is not out to toss people like fodder in the wastebasket of hell, rather it is a result of people not hanging on to the essential component of life, namely His Spirit. you equate Hell as a place, but I tend to view it as a life (or rather, living death) of the absence of God, who is able to resurrect us into incorruptable bodies and redeemed souls. But we still have to make that choice, the decision to come to Him is still ours.

that still doens tsound like a place a t all anyone should have to end up in, under any crazy circumstances

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

SM, it seems like you are begging for attention more loudly now. What do you want?

Jesus is a person in a book. It is 2000 year old history. Are you perhaps projecting on a book something that you experienced with people who call themselves Christian today?

If you are looking for advice, I suggest looking at personal relationships. Ask yourself: Are you honest with people and yourself? Have you left things unconfessed? Are you faithful to anyone or do you have faith in anyone? Who or what do you love? People to forgive? Are you patient? Have you experienced marriage? Have children?

The eternal damnation in the gospels is eternal 'judgment'. Perhaps a way to be in eternal judgment is to not hear judgment and to refute ways to learn and change to be better. Do you seriously consider yourself perfected and unable to learn anything new from God? Your words here sound passive aggressive but if you are being a trickster then I think you are just being dishonest. My opinion of course but I would seek perfection of personal relationships and ask God for guidance along the way.

I have tons of room for improvement and I am working on it. I love my family and friends and I try and love everyone too.

Am I taking the message of this 2000 year old book the wrong way? Those were ancient days Im sure they were ok living in paralysing fear of a monster god.

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

That is my thing though... You ain't perfect, but are a beliver in a god.... I ain't perfect, and not really caring if there is a god.... I live my life and enjoy my life.... So... You'd go to heaven/paradise earth whatever and be changed.... But I wouldn't.... So I dunno... That confuses me.

It confuses me too that there is a god that can help people but he sets up terms and conditions for his help, it just sounds dishonest. I labeled it passive aggressive in my original post. ITs not perfect and sweet, but its under a rouge of being poerfect and sweet.

 

[Dondi]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

that still doens tsound like a place a t all anyone should have to end up in, under any crazy circumstances

Not speaking for God, but I'd think He would feel the same way. The scriptures do indicate that Hell was made for the Devil and his angels, for which there is no redemptive process, not for man. But if you aren't for God, where does that leave you? With others that aren't for God, and that wouldn't be heaven either.

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

so in order to be for god I have to think its ok that if people dont get it they deserve punishment? What if I am for human improvement and love and peace? I am for all of that. Im not for condeming all humans to hell. thats what god does

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

if a person doesnt wqant to believe in god why does that make this perfect loving being so angry? if he wants to help, really, he could help anyway. after death, remove the wool from the persons eyes. or maybe he could show up tangibly and honestly before death and get all the people in the world to realize who he is and what he wants.

the game he is playing ensures one thing.

that some people will end up in hell

this is still not good or justifyable.

he needs a new game

 

[Dondi]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

so in order to be for god I have to think its ok that if people dont get it they deserve punishment? What if I am for human improvement and love and peace? I am for all of that.

Good, because that is what God is looking for.

Im not for condeming all humans to hell. thats what god does

You are still thinking on linear terms, thinking it is all about hell. But I tell you that it is all about the human condition. Try to be absolutely good for one week. Go ahead, try it. Bet you fail, if you are honest. The standard for good is there as an ideal, something to shoot for. Of course we will fail if we don't have His Good in us. And even if we are relying on His Spirit, as long as we are in imperfect flesh, we will be tempted. His Spirit is available to guide us and give us strength and if we learn from Him. We will see ourselves in sin less and less. But that is what Grace is for: to learn how to love without condemnation. Salvations is salvation for our souls. But if you don't see yourself as sick, you won't seek a doctor. Some patients die because they are in denial about their condition and end up seeking help way too late.

 

[LeoSalinas22]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

oh, how quaint. another threat.

"listen (punk) this is the best thing you are ever gonna get"

this god of yours is not friendly

Job 40 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

I lvoe the book of job

 

[LeoSalinas22]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

if a person doesnt wqant to believe in god why does that make this perfect loving being so angry? if he wants to help, really, he could help anyway. after death, remove the wool from the persons eyes. or maybe he could show up tangibly and honestly before death and get all the people in the world to realize who he is and what he wants.

Psalms 78 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law; And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them. Marvellous things did he in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt, in the field of Zoan. He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and he made the waters to stand as an heap. In the daytime also he led them with a cloud, and all the night with a light of fire. He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths. He brought streams also out of the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers. And they sinned yet more against him by provoking the most High in the wilderness. And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.
one thing people always ask is, "if God is so powerful, then why doesn't He just appear and we will all change." well, you know what, He did appear and guess what, no one cared. they cared for awhile and they just reverted back to their sinful ways. imagine just for a bit, how much heartbreak and dissappointment this brought Him. if you can't understand how much this breaks His heart, well my friend, you are just being self-righteous and close minded and have a loooooong way to go before you can wake up in His likeness.

 

[LeoSalinas22]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

I lvoe the book of job

i am glad to hear that, man, because you remind me so much of job in his trying to justify himself more than our Father in heaven.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

I lvoe the book of job

Maybe because you had a starring role in it. And I dont mean Job.

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

Good, because that is what God is looking for.





You are still thinking on linear terms, thinking it is all about hell. But I tell you that it is all about the human condition. Try to be absolutely good for one week. Go ahead, try it. Bet you fail, if you are honest. The standard for good is there as an ideal, something to shoot for. Of course we will fail if we don't have His Good in us. And even if we are relying on His Spirit, as long as we are in imperfect flesh, we will be tempted. His Spirit is available to guide us and give us strength and if we learn from Him. We will see ourselves in sin less and less. But that is what Grace is for: to learn how to love without condemnation. Salvations is salvation for our souls. But if you don't see yourself as sick, you won't seek a doctor. Some patients die because they are in denial about their condition and end up seeking help way too late.

this is side stepping my original point.

he has created a reality where millions of people are gonna end up in hell. why? is any explanation good enough? I dont see how it can be.

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

Psalms 78 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law; And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them. Marvellous things did he in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt, in the field of Zoan. He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and he made the waters to stand as an heap. In the daytime also he led them with a cloud, and all the night with a light of fire. He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths. He brought streams also out of the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers. And they sinned yet more against him by provoking the most High in the wilderness. And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.
one thing people always ask is, "if God is so powerful, then why doesn't He just appear and we will all change." well, you know what, He did appear and guess what, no one cared. they cared for awhile and they just reverted back to their sinful ways. imagine just for a bit, how much heartbreak and dissappointment this brought Him. if you can't understand how much this breaks His heart, well my friend, you are just being self-righteous and close minded and have a loooooong way to go before you can wake up in His likeness.

Why not appear again? If He's omnipotent, then the effort required to appear once is exactly the same as the effort required to appear an infinite number of times. If He wants to avoid forcing Himself to send people to Hell for not believing in Him, why not have that appearance be right before the guy starts reverting back to sinful ways?

When He showed Himself to some people at one point in time, why didn't He just simultaneously show Himself to all other people at all other points in time? Since He tossed out the whole "all blessed is he who does not see but believes" garbage anyways and it requires the same fraction of His infinite power to do either, why let some get the personal vision and not others?

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

it seems if god really wanted no one in hell, there would be no one in hell. the whole thing that irks me is god has created people, he doesnt want them in hell, but the world he creates lets people go to hell, and he appears to know it. it doesnt add up. is this almost a proof of the inexistance of christianity?

I mean, forget showing up to keep people out of hell.

get rid of this whole fallen world off the bat! he has this whole game set up with a choice involved and the only out come is that some people are gonna make the wrong choice. why have the whole game in the firstplace?

 

[cyberpi]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

Am I taking the message of this 2000 year old book the wrong way?

With or without a book, by your words it is the spirit of Faith and Faithfulness that troubles you. Issues with control, authority, not having all the information... most of the things contrived about passive aggressive behavior all have to do with faith. I think some people understand it but by the English word today they wrongly use the word to mean a belief, a religion, a book, or a doctrine... which really misguides people.

Try placing yourself inside the gospel: hearing the rumors of this Jesus guy and that he can heal people, but you don't know the whole story and there is conjecture. Maybe you've got this illness and probably should go see him. Maybe some common sense says to go see the man but that would mean getting up in front of all those people, reducing your dignity, asking for help, placing yourself into judgment, maybe being asked some questions about your sins. Do you have sins? A person who has ailments are viewed as a person possibly afflicted by God for his sins. So you really don't know. Maybe in your mind you are thinking he could be a voodoo doctor... or that your friends are telling lies with all of their gossip and wives' tales. Why should you lower yourself to that man's level? Why should you trust him? Why should you trust the large crowd that follows him around? Maybe he won't really heal you and then you would have to fake it or admit it in front of all those people. They are a cult... they are not the majority. If there is fear it is fear of the Roman Empire, the lawyers, tax collectors, and the priests. You've also heard what they do to people. That John guy who was baptizing people got beheaded. Maybe you are glad that you were not seen being baptized by that guy... besides, what use was there in admitting sins while getting wet? People screw each other all the time so you have got to be on your guard, right... or do you? That Jesus guy, what does the leader of that cult have that you don't?

If I were you, I would study Faith in my life with the people that I see. Think of the exercises that build Faith between people, and then DO them. Faith requires action. Just saying it brings to mind all the things I had better go do: the other side of it... being Faithful.

 

[shadowman]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

thank you, your insights are always fascinating

 

[Dor]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

I think this thread and OP is inappropriate for this forum.

I'm recommending that it be reviewed by the staff...but I'm not going to close it now as I see it has lead to some interesting discussion.

I found it pretty freaking tacky. Ive just figured there are people on here that are here strictly to drag more people away so I try to ignore these threads.

 

[Prober]

Re: jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

I think this thread and OP is inappropriate for this forum.

I'm recommending that it be reviewed by the staff...but I'm not going to close it now as I see it has lead to some interesting discussion.

I find the title offensive. The discussion has been as expected (imo).