Creation vs. Evolution vs. "Emanationism"
- Thread starter Nick the Pilot
- Start date
Geo
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 263
- Reaction score
- 26
- Points
- 28
No. Perhaps not.
But Matrixism does.
"3. Adherence to the principles of one or more of the world's religions until such time as The One returns."
juantoo, just a situation of how your ego surpasses your knowledge.
I expect "Nick the Pilot" is long gone, but what Matrixism advocates is that the chief rebel knew what would happen if he could get Adam to disobey the Almighty, resulting in a situation of another alternate timeline... wherein Darwin's Evolution would be the situation.
Which we have evolved in.
Hence?
Jesus referred to him as the, "ruler of this world", with it's predator/prey situation... involving this organic... survival instinct, and ego.
Which is the real reason for misery on the planet.
While St. Paul was correct in saying "the love of money" is the fault, again, he wasn't being objective enough.
Adam, "the first man", was not like us. The Earth was not like this, since the Fall.
And, "Paradise" is a timeless situation.
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live."
Einstein
--------------
Cino, if your not going to avail yourself of various Biblical knowledge, how can you really understand Matrixism? You've said you've understood the NDE? OBE's?
St. Paul tells us of his NDE in 2 Corinthians, in humble manner.
Speaking about himself in the 3rd person. Which experience, he relates, occurred 14 years prior, in the Book of Acts, verse 14:19.
Last edited:
And that's the whole point. The scientists themselves would not condone their theories being and cherry-picked for quotes taken out of context and without any proper understanding of the theories, to be used as woo by various sects and religions. The scientists themselves take an extremely dim view of their life work being used in that way. Tesla is a particularly common victim of the woo merchants, imo.
This is an interfaith dialogue forum, not a Matrixism self-study guide. We tell each other about our beliefs, but we don't give homework and check the results. We especially don't expect or coerce others to come to the same conclusions as we.
I don't claim to understand near death experiences, no. I think they are appropriately named, with the emphasis on "near".
You recently described your OBE experience. That was great, thanks again. As I mentioned in the past weeks in a thread here, I have also had OBE experiences, and I recognize the similarities to your account. It's these similarities in experience that I find most interesting. The different conclusions we draw from these are something I hold lightly.
I'm familiar with Paul's account, having read the Christian Bible. I feel it is quite terse, what are the features that make you think of NDE as opposed to other types of spiritual experience?
Geo
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 263
- Reaction score
- 26
- Points
- 28
Cino -
"I"m familiar with Paul's account, having read the Christian Bible. I feel it is quite terse, what are the features that make you think of NDE as opposed to other types of spiritual experience?"
Well, I mentioned the event described in Acts which he is speaking about, in 14:19.
He was dragged out of a city by the Jewish leaders, and stoned to death.
In front of his companions, he returned.
He tells about the greater reality and truth he experienced. Which I'm sure strengthened his ministry, and his resolve to die for Christ.
Not sure why you feel he is being terse here.
?
"I"m familiar with Paul's account, having read the Christian Bible. I feel it is quite terse, what are the features that make you think of NDE as opposed to other types of spiritual experience?"
Well, I mentioned the event described in Acts which he is speaking about, in 14:19.
He was dragged out of a city by the Jewish leaders, and stoned to death.
In front of his companions, he returned.
He tells about the greater reality and truth he experienced. Which I'm sure strengthened his ministry, and his resolve to die for Christ.
Not sure why you feel he is being terse here.
?
I double-checked the Acts of the Apostles chapter 14. Paul is stoned and left for dead, but survives. No word about an experience while unconscious in all of the chapter. Just because someone was close to death they don't necessarily have an NDE. I think this was true then, and is true now.
Upon re-reading, the passage in the Second Epistle to the Corinthians chapter 12 still seems rather terse to me. Paul is merely claiming-not-claiming to have experienced "the third heaven" (I think this referred to a divine sphere beyond the atmosphere and the sphere of the stars). But what it was he experienced there, except that it was hard to express, he gives no detail. This is different from modern-day NDEs, where people give lots of detail about the ancestors or other beings they met and the messages they received. It seems he's citing this experience to counter doubts about his being a proper, "eminent" apostle, since he never met Jesus - except in a vision on the road to Damascus.
Giving this a bit of thought, my take is that Paul's experiences, whatever they were, must have been profound (you left out the Road to Damascus event, which has the most detail but clearly was not an NDE) and were obviously life-changing for him. But I'd be cautious shoe-horning them onto the modern day concept of NDE.
Geo
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 263
- Reaction score
- 26
- Points
- 28
Cino -
"Upon re-reading, the passage in the Second Epistle to the Corinthians chapter 12 still seems rather terse to me. Paul is merely claiming-not-claiming to have experienced "the third heaven" (I think this referred to a divine sphere beyond the atmosphere and the sphere of the stars). But what it was he experienced there, except that it was hard to express, he gives no detail."
People way back, even just say 70 years ago, were highly skeptical about what seems common today Cino.
Especially Christians who would claim it was "a trick of the devil".
Plus, because of the nature of these Experiences, one can easily imagine Paul's response concerning the love he received, (which is what he is writing about Cino.)
You can read in the accounts today how people feel totally different. Obviously it was him, but different.
All of which is why he's speaking about himself in the third person.
He obviously was being humble.
------------
Corbet -
"Why do you keep posting this image? Why is it so important to you?
Does the butterfly remember the caterpillar?"
Look down at your skin, your evolved organic situation, and share what is the caterpillar.
Rev. 12:3, Rev. 12:4, Rev. 22:9
"Upon re-reading, the passage in the Second Epistle to the Corinthians chapter 12 still seems rather terse to me. Paul is merely claiming-not-claiming to have experienced "the third heaven" (I think this referred to a divine sphere beyond the atmosphere and the sphere of the stars). But what it was he experienced there, except that it was hard to express, he gives no detail."
People way back, even just say 70 years ago, were highly skeptical about what seems common today Cino.
Especially Christians who would claim it was "a trick of the devil".
Plus, because of the nature of these Experiences, one can easily imagine Paul's response concerning the love he received, (which is what he is writing about Cino.)
You can read in the accounts today how people feel totally different. Obviously it was him, but different.
All of which is why he's speaking about himself in the third person.
He obviously was being humble.
------------
Corbet -
"Why do you keep posting this image? Why is it so important to you?
Does the butterfly remember the caterpillar?"
Look down at your skin, your evolved organic situation, and share what is the caterpillar.
Rev. 12:3, Rev. 12:4, Rev. 22:9
Last edited:
Quoting Revelation is always an interesting tell.
If brought up early, it puts you on notice, if brought up late it tends to confirm suspicions.
I am watching from my avatar in the matrix, this is after all a simulation provided programmers from the future who have designed this for us because it is better than the reality of their past, that has to be right right?
Why does not everyone have the same perception as I? Are they a programming or hardware error, or am I the glitch? Where is this great computer in the sky.
Suddenly perceives that the James Webb is being held up because the ai is behind on running all the code for that which it thinks it will see.
If brought up early, it puts you on notice, if brought up late it tends to confirm suspicions.
I am watching from my avatar in the matrix, this is after all a simulation provided programmers from the future who have designed this for us because it is better than the reality of their past, that has to be right right?
Why does not everyone have the same perception as I? Are they a programming or hardware error, or am I the glitch? Where is this great computer in the sky.
Suddenly perceives that the James Webb is being held up because the ai is behind on running all the code for that which it thinks it will see.
I get all that, especially the challenges inherent in describing extraordinary states of consciousness to a broad audience who may not be into that kind of thing.
My question: Do you think the experience of Love Paul describes occurred in the context of his being stoned, or rather in the context of the Road to Damascus event?
What's your reasoning?
The account in acts does not mention any visions.
The Corinthians account does not mention being a victim of stoning. Also it seems to refer to two individual experiences: The third heaven, and Paradise.
What makes you sure they align?
Also, in Acts, he was stoned by an already angry mob of pagans, enraged because he refused being identified as Hermes, and the Jews from Iconium and Antioch who swayed the mob to stone him are not identified as leaders.
The account in acts does not mention any visions.
The Corinthians account does not mention being a victim of stoning. Also it seems to refer to two individual experiences: The third heaven, and Paradise.
What makes you sure they align?
Also, in Acts, he was stoned by an already angry mob of pagans, enraged because he refused being identified as Hermes, and the Jews from Iconium and Antioch who swayed the mob to stone him are not identified as leaders.
Last edited:
Geo
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 263
- Reaction score
- 26
- Points
- 28
In the Damascus experience, Cino, he was overpowered by Christ in a blinding light, and was blinded. Then the scripture states that he spent a number of years researching the Messiah, and His prophesies, in the old testament writings.
He was never left unconscious in the experience Cino.
He then went his way to the location the Lord described to him, and spent years studying.
Which experience btw, was the cause of his infirmity later in in his life, regarding his vision.
"Suddenly a bright light shone on Saul, causing his entire party to fall to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to Saul, asking him, “Why are you persecuting me?” in a voice understood only by him. Saul recognized that this was a deity of some sort because he called Him “Lord” and asked who He was. When Jesus identified Himself as the very One Saul had been persecuting".
https://www.gotquestions.org/Damascus-Road.html
He was never left unconscious in the experience Cino.
He then went his way to the location the Lord described to him, and spent years studying.
Which experience btw, was the cause of his infirmity later in in his life, regarding his vision.
"Suddenly a bright light shone on Saul, causing his entire party to fall to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to Saul, asking him, “Why are you persecuting me?” in a voice understood only by him. Saul recognized that this was a deity of some sort because he called Him “Lord” and asked who He was. When Jesus identified Himself as the very One Saul had been persecuting".
https://www.gotquestions.org/Damascus-Road.html
Thanks, so back to my question. Why do you think Paul had an NDE when he was stoned? It is not mentioned in Acts.
Why do you think the Corinthians mention of being caught up to the third heaven refers to the event when he was being stoned? It does not say so in the Epistle.
Why do you think the Corinthians mention of being caught up to the third heaven refers to the event when he was being stoned? It does not say so in the Epistle.