Christianity Subforum Poll

[InLove]

Thanks, luna. I don't want to take him away from his studies, but you are probably right. You the man, Thomas. Stop by anytime.

 

[Snoopy]

I hope you're not going to be getting the lawyers in to decide this one!

s.

 

[InLove]

LOL--no. But I don't mind their input as long as it's free.

 

[seattlegal]

Okay, I have another question which I think will help me decide on how to vote. Does "Esoteric Christianity" describe Christianity that is not necessarily Abrahamic in origen? And if so, how inclusive is it of streams like Christian Druidry, Native American Spirituality, etc.? That may sound like a crazy question to some, but maybe someone can attempt a response?

IMHO, "Esoteric Christianity" would be a term that would apply to Wisdom traditions such as the Gnostics, Masons, Rosicrucians, and the like. They can be Abrahamic or non-Abrahamic in origin.

 

[Snoopy]

Does "Esoteric Christianity" describe Christianity that is not necessarily Abrahamic in origen?

just how many Christianity forums do you need??!!

There's another well known (Buddhist) web forum which has loads of active members on it. But for me, its got so many sub-forums on it, when I look at it I feel like a rabbit in front of car headlights...where would I start a thread?...where would I look for a thread on a particular topic?...where will so-and-so be posting?...

s.

 

[InLove]

just how many Christianity forums do you need??!!

That Jesus just won't stay in the box, will He?

 

[Dor]

That said, I voted for number five. I think the traditionalists have been clear in expressing their desire for a separate board, and ignoring their wishes will bring us around yet again to this point if they aren't happy or feel disenfranchised.

Might want to go back and check it was liberals that wanted a new board. One in particular that I recall.

 

[Snoopy]

That Jesus just won't stay in the box, will He?

strikes me as a bit of of a megalomaniac.

s.

 

[Dor]

You are not alone.
Jesus Christ does NOT belong in a sub forum.

No but he definately belongs in this forum no matter who all comes in here.

 

[InLove]

By the way, Seattlegal--thanks for your input. It's pro bono, right?

 

[ardenz]

How many subforums on the head of a pin ?

 

[Thomas]

I tend to think once we start making distinctions, then we never stop ...

Rather than separate boards, it should be easier for those involved to 'declare an interest' — I try to make it fairly obvious I'm RC, Mee is JW, etc.

But this is not a Catholic Forum, and does not claim to be. And do we then get into all the schools of Buddhism? Of Vedanta and Advaita Vedanta, Zen, Soto Zen ...

I choose to post in the Christianity forum when my postings are orthodox, and on the esoteric or otherwise when it's my own speculations...

+++

Thomas

 

[InLove]

Hey Everyone--

Alright, then--I decided. Forgive me, those of you who want one board. I'm just not ready to let go of the Lib board yet--at least not with my vote. However, I can manage to be happy and make posts no matter what is decided by the administration or by this poll. I'm sure we will make the best of it no matter the outcome. And if the LC is removed, there really are other places to post and other ways of dealing with sticky issues, perhaps including statements, disclaimers, or requests in the original post of any thread (as I believe lunamoth has pointed out somewhere before). So, I'll punch the card, and then abide by whatever decision is ultimately agreed upon.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Thomas]

Okay, I have another question which I think will help me decide on how to vote. Does "Esoteric Christianity" describe Christianity that is not necessarily Abrahamic in origen?

Hi InLove — two answers:
1 - No. Christ taught an esoterism from the word go, it's focus is on the spirit, not the letter, but the spirit of the Torah, the Law, not the spirit of the Pali Canon or the Vedas ...

'Esoteric' simply means 'more interior' — my insight into Christian symbolism is an esoterism, but I have met Christrians who's insights I find enlightening, more esoteric than my own, but Christian esoterism is a journey into the heart of the Christian Revelation ... nowhere else ... this is properly and traditionally called mystagogia. I am among a number of Catholics I know in the UK, US and Europe working towards that end, of bringing this out into the mainstream — that the Christian journey of learning does not stop when we leave Sunday School.

2 - What I do not believe in, and what I will steadfastly refute, is an 'Esoteric Christianity' that is elitist, that holds itself apart from the 'common run' and regards itself as separate, distinct and special, with a body of knowledge unique to itself — this is fundamentally born of a not-love of one's neighbour...

And I challenge anyone to show me anything more esoteric than the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

+++

And if so, how inclusive is it of streams like Christian Druidry, Native American Spirituality, etc.? That may sound like a crazy question to some, but maybe someone can attempt a response?

Native American Spirituality is its own thing, as is Buddhism, Daoism, etc., and it is complete and entire to itself, and has no need to be supplemented from without, nor can one tradition supplement another, without inevitable syncretism and confusion. I do not know what 'Christian druidry' comprises of. Celtic Christianity is another matter.

As a Christian, I can see the trace of God in all other traditions, and as a Christian, I believe that anyone who loves the good, loves God, even if s/he does not know it, or speaks of it in other terms.

It is Catholic Doctrine that all those who strive for good are beloved of God. It is for Him to weigh the heart, not us...

Thomas

 

[InLove]

Thank you, Thomas.

 

[pattimax]

No but he definately belongs in this forum no matter who all comes in here.

...of course.

 

[pattimax]

(although they're all sub-forums as per the structure of the website)

s.

Good point. I had a symbolic over-ride of computer semantics.

 

[wil]

Esoteric' simply means 'more interior' — my insight into Christian symbolism is an esoterism, but I have met Christrians who's insights I find enlightening, more esoteric than my own, but Christian esoterism is a journey into the heart of the Christian Revelation ... nowhere else ... this is properly and traditionally called mystagogia. I am among a number of Catholics I know in the UK, US and Europe working towards that end, of bringing this out into the mainstream — that the Christian journey of learning does not stop when we leave Sunday School.

yee haw. How do you read the difference between Esoteric and Metaphysical?

 

[Thomas]

Hi Wil —

Metaphysics is primarily a philosophical commentary on esoterism which is primarily a mythopeic commentary ... so I would say metaphysics seeks always what lies behind the veil of appearance?

Hey — was that 'yee haw' me sounding big-headed?

Thomas

 

[taijasi]

2 - What I do not believe in, and what I will steadfastly refute, is an 'Esoteric Christianity' that is elitist, that holds itself apart from the 'common run' and regards itself as separate, distinct and special, with a body of knowledge unique to itself — this is fundamentally born of a not-love of one's neighbour...

But wait a minute. This is exactly the form (and practice) of "Christianity" that I - and so many other people, apparently - have been seeking to escape!
It seems I have not tried hard enough.

And some feel the severance, the exile, must be complete - while others simply prefer to drain the murky bathwaters. (I knew that Christ child was in there, somewhere! )

`Liberal' (Christians/Christianity) seems the proper term, imho, for folks who fit into the latter category. But, how awkward to need to split Christianity into `Traditional' vs. anything else. Why not Orthodox vs. Reformed Judiasm, and Sunni vs. Shi'a Islam?

Esoteric, Mystical, New Age, etc. - whether referring to Christianity or not, can certainly fit into the current `Alternative' category, but such a thing as `Alternative Christianity' just doesn't mean much - as Snoopy pointed out.

And Thomas, I will be the first to defend the notion that every single major religion has its exoteric and its esoteric aspects - each of which are really only definable one in terms of the other. Just don't pretend that there aren't esotericists (with no additional qualifying label needed) of any and every exoteric religious interest/tradition/practice (and NONE) ... who MUST BE BOXED into the definition you provide for "a Christian esoterism." And don't insist that, "oh, well - then they must be participants in a Buddhist esoterism, a Sufi esoterism, etc."

Such, at best, is your own opinion/experience, and is begging the question!!!

In the same way that there exists a Christian Ecumenism, or Ecumenical Movement, so too there exists a worldwide effort toward Ecumenism between all religions.

And just as within Christianity, the idea is NOT to "level the playing field," remove all denominational differences, and define what Christianity means for everyone ... neither do those who believe in religious universalism - or certainly religious pluralism - believe that all differences are irrelevant, or meaningless at the individual level, or even in terms of denominations, and religions, as a whole.

How does any of this get us closer to what might be best in terms of administrative/organizational changes at CR? It just comes back to Snoopy's point regarding civil discussion ... and also to what might be the agenda which any particular person may be bringing to the table.

There was a great thread about this (agendas) recently, I thought ... or maybe I just imagined it. I can't find it, at any rate, and I wish I could put my finger on it right now. `Dialogue about dialogue' was good, but I thought there was another about motivations for being here, or something. Perhaps I interpreted it out of context ... oh well ...

Peace,

~andrew