Clean & Unclean Meats

my humble apologies 17th, i must be a bit slow down here but I didnt understand a single part of what you said/typed. maybe you need to speak when your mouth isnt so full. eh? love the grey. by the way, I totally understand people of any description not eating meat or anything else for that matter because of medical reasons ie allergies etc or just plain and simple choice of a lifestyle, I just cant understand someone hiding behind a religious belief in this matter. thats all.
 
my humble apologies 17th, i must be a bit slow down here but I didnt understand a single part of what you said/typed. maybe you need to speak when your mouth isnt so full. eh? love the grey. by the way, I totally understand people of any description not eating meat or anything else for that matter because of medical reasons ie allergies etc or just plain and simple choice of a lifestyle, I just cant understand someone hiding behind a religious belief in this matter. thats all.

My mouth full? Yea, that tends to be an obstacle while typing. :) You mentioned -lifestyle- isn't that religion? In a more simple way, what I said was replying to you not seeing the problem with an animal eating another animal.... So I put it in perspective of a lion eating a human.... People tend to not see that as hog wash... And to some humans, eating that bucket of chicken parts that are doing the breast stroke in grease, is the same as a child's face being mashed and mingled to pulp in the jaw of a lion.... Anyway back to "lifestyle"

I don't wish to eat meat because I have choosen not to, that is my lifestyle. (That is ok with you yeah?)

I don't wish to eat meat because my faith say's it isn't right, so I have choosen not to, that is my religion..... (That's hiding?)

Are they both not acceptable answers? They are choices, not actions to "hide" In both answers the person chooses to respect life and not kill/eat it.. Just like they have -choosen- (There's that crazy word again) their own religion the one that is right for them...... What's the problem? Like, I have -choosen- to eat meat.... (have done so since I was a child...) But, I don't get my knickers in a twist over others choices... That is their choice, that's the beauty of free will. :D
 
I just cant understand someone hiding behind a religious belief in this matter. thats all.

If you follow one of the traditions of Hinduism, then you can't exactly call it hiding:

"You must not use your God-given body for killing god's creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever." - Yajur Veda 12.32

"In their next lives, such sinful persons will be eaten by the same creatures they have killed in this world." - Bhagavata Purana 11.5.14

I understand that St. Francis, although a vegetarian himself, never preached Vegetarianism because it was not clearly described in the Christian scriptures? It seems to be a matter of personal choice for followers of the majority of modern Abrahmic traditions.

Unless, of course, you take the commandment "thou shalt not kill" in the universal sense.


... Neemai :)
 
we have some sources (based on the "lion lying down with the lamb" in isaiah, i believe) that in the messianic age/World to Come, humans will no longer eat meat, as we will return to an 'edenic state. until then, of course, eating meat is an "'oneg" or pleasure which we are commanded to enjoy as appropriate, although people who are vegetarian for spiritual reasons will of course get some kind of religious brownie points i dare say.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
we have some sources (based on the "lion lying down with the lamb" in isaiah, i believe) that in the messianic age/World to Come, humans will no longer eat meat, as we will return to an 'edenic state. until then, of course, eating meat is an "'oneg" or pleasure which we are commanded to enjoy as appropriate, although people who are vegetarian for spiritual reasons will of course get some kind of religious brownie points i dare say.

b'shalom

bananabrain

If that's the case, then there are going to be a lot of disappointed people whose fondest meals come off the grill. We'll have to substitute with soy burgers. Yeech!
 
If that's the case, then there are going to be a lot of disappointed people whose fondest meals come off the grill. We'll have to substitute with soy burgers. Yeech!
marinate a few portebello's in some italian or garlic salad dressing and then toss them on the grill, you'll get a taste of heaven...
 
Peace Bananabrain,
I didn't know you were Jewish. I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies of your religion; and I did post this on the Christianity forum.

>and xenotransplants from pigs are permitted in halakhah (jewish law) - we >may not be permitted to eat a pig, but we can certainly save a human life >using one.

This sound like expediency- just like the Japanese Buddhists who decided that deer was a "land whale" so they could eat it. Or that Passover wine is OK even though it is hametz.
In Ex12:15, hametz is generally understood as leavened bread.
>Numb6:3, however, declares wine hometz.
> Positive commandment of eatring the unleavened bread in Ex12:15
>favor the restricted meaning of hametz as leavened bread. Ex15:11
>requires haste, and implies absence of wine, thus suggesting
>expanded meaning of hametz.
>> What are the grammatical arguments of reading hametz as "leavened
>bread," rather than "leavened thing," including wine?
[b-hebrew] hametz - why the restricted meaning?


>what is "indulgent" about eating pigs as opposed to, say, cows? and >what's it got to do with humanhood? this just sounds like a bunch of >overblown windy rhetoric to me.


Many, who are not even vegetarians, would find the idea of horseflesh or dolphin meat undesirable, if not revolting. If such a meat was prepared to taste as well as any other meal, one would find still a natural aversion to the foodstuff; just as there is today, a natural aversion to certain organs of the accepted fleshes that are consumed. This is the beginning of where Man finds he cannot indulge in the flesh of a brother. Where the relationship is so closely linked, he identifies such characteristics- various attributes that he himself is endowed with. It is but a disgusting and degrading practice to enter into cannibalism of this kind.
-The Brothers



>ah, the gospels, of course, also being a 100% factual basis for your >scientific conclusions that pork is unhealthy.
Christianity forum- remember?

Scientific view of the Hog
In 2 Corinthians 6:17 the Lord tells us to come out from them, and not touch the unclean, and he will then receive us. This text refers to the unclean meats, just as it did in the Old Testament times.
In Isaiah 66:16, 17 the Lord says, "For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh. and the slain of the Lord shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord."
>well, as i've already said, observant jewish diabetes isn't half that of the >general population, nor is hindu diabetes, so that just doesn't really stack >up, does it?

It would be difficult to arrange such a trial where say 200 Jews would eat pork for say 20 years and then compare them with the reat.

I did find another successful diabetes trial where a vegan diet was used.



>and who the arse made him an authority on the reasons for kashrut? find >me someone who knows about halakhah that says that and you've got >a case, but i've never heard anything to suggest it.

I don't say or quote "on authority". I always say folk should think for themselves and not rely on "traditions" which are often just based on thin air.

> uncle bananabrain's pet theory about tuma and taharah (unsupported by >official sanction, naturally) is that your average human is a set of pipes, >some physical, some spiritual, some both. thus it is very important what >goes into your pipes and what comes out of them and what they get >connected up to at any given time. seeing things like that it makes a lot >of sense what your various bodily and spiritual interfaces and orifices are used for.

Well, Uncle, I do believe influences beyond the physical enter into us (our soul) with the foods we eat. The Chinese know this very well.

God Bless,
Br.Bruce
 
Yous can eat your greens. I'll take the meat; the beef, the pork, the fowl, the crustacen, the reptile, the amphibian, the fish, and the occassional insectoid.

I won't eat monkey, or lemur, or sloth, or wombat. Anything with five digits (including an opposible thumb), is off limits. If they look like me (even on a bad hair day), it ain't 'lunch'...
 
It is interesting to see all the ads this thread attracted!

There are special diets for special needs. We can discuss some of these in relation to the temperaments.

We know that home-grown veggies taste better- one aspect is that they have more vitality. My Teachers have suggested that when we come to know a plant before we eat it, we enter into a relationship with it that also leads to greater nourishment. It also makes a difference if the carnivore "knows" its prey before it consumes it. So you could grow at least some of the food you eat- even if it's a little parsley!

There are foods which lack vitality: dried food- dried soup, dried, processed sugar etc. That kind of food will seed bacteria in the body. Also there is less vitality in dried food. Dried food doesn't include substances like beans and grains which aren't artificially dried.

There is more than one reason why juices are so good for you too. Orange juice is not preferred- some people have problems with it; which goes back to the origin of the orange.

Lemon juice in water, and honey in water, before the meal, have been suggested for those who have a weak digestion.

Honey is the best tonic for those with mineral deficiencies. Interestingly honey will cure anemia in children- honey and milk preparation. (As Swiss studies have shown.)

The table grace and table setting are also important.

As to specific foods, turnips have been talked about as an aid to prudent thinking. Dr. Steiner has also related the relationship of root vegetables to the brain/sense system.

The importance of water has been indicated time and again, and unlike some, the Brothers recommend the taking of pure water with a meal- distilled or rainwater is best. It is the harmonizing effect of the water we are looking for.

Steaming vegetables rather than boiling has been mentioned.

As to the vegetarian diet, this is to be approached gradually as individuals find themselves suited. Certain fleshes have been condemned, in particular pig meat. It is interesting, as I mentioned before, how Dr. Steiner singles out pork as interfering with sugar metabolism. Races which are prone to diabetes should always avoid pork in their diets- Asians, Eastern Europeans, Aboriginals, to mention a few. The reason why the pig has always been abhorred is that it is the result of a mixed evolution with man, as I said before.

Other fleshes not recommended are the organs, shark meat (carnivores), and octopus (being quite unrelated in its system to man). In fact, I've found the food prohibitions of Leviticus pretty much hold true.


Bon Apetit,
Br.Bruce
 
mmmmm shark is yummy. I call it revenge fish. lol and I love squid and octopus. Calamari in garlic sauce. mmmmmmm. I apologise for insulting you lot. I still dont get it but Ill shut up now I think.love the grey
 
mmmmm shark is yummy. I call it revenge fish. lol and I love squid and octopus. Calamari in garlic sauce. mmmmmmm. I apologise for insulting you lot. I still dont get it but Ill shut up now I think.love the grey

Any thoughts on my previous post then? ;)

You mentioned -lifestyle- isn't that religion?

I don't wish to eat meat because I have choosen not to, that is my lifestyle. (That is ok with you yeah?)

I don't wish to eat meat because my faith say's it isn't right, so I have choosen not to, that is my religion..... (That's hiding?)

Are they both not acceptable answers? They are choices, not actions to "hide" In both answers the person chooses to respect life and not kill/eat it.. Just like they have -choosen- (There's that crazy word again) their own religion the one that is right for them...... What's the problem? Like, I have -choosen- to eat meat.... (have done so since I was a child...) But, I don't get my knickers in a twist over others choices... That is their choice, that's the beauty of free will. :D
 
If all diabetics are or have been "pork eaters" then why aren't ALL PORK EATERS diabetics? Diabetes is a caused by a combination of genetics, diet and lack of exercise...period. Overweight and especially obese people are more prone to diabetes because their bodies cannot make enough insulin to support their weight (mostly fat) and eating habits.
 
to the 17th, once again I will apologise to you and all I have offended onthis little post. My fingers typed I guess, before my brain was in gear. Let me rephrase what I was trying to say. The only point I absolutely disagree with is that a meat whether it is pork, beef etc can be unclean(in the evil sense). I dont care what religious book says this. It is purely and simply an animal. That is all. Unless of course it has a disease that can be passed on to humans eg. mad cow disease etc,. So please forgive me for my earlier ramblings and I hope you didnt pop an artery or anything. lovethe grey.

Ps welcome, new member A simple man. from the grey
 
... The only point I absolutely disagree with is that a meat whether it is pork, beef etc can be unclean(in the evil sense). ... Unless of course it has a disease that can be passed on to humans eg. mad cow disease etc,.
Pork despite the pork council's ads which claim it
America's other white meat...does carry diseases which if not cooked and handled properly can harm man....as well as oysters, shrimp, crab, lobsters...which are bottom feeders. Between pigs being primitive garbage disposals and shell fish's basic duty of keeping our oceans clean...it doesn't make an incredible amount of sense to eat the filter...of course I tried to use the same argument against liver when my mother fed it to me...and had no luck there either...
 
as long as it is well cooked. I know its probably the worst reason in the world but Ive been eating pork etc all my llife. I havent any medical problems, almost the picture of health really, I'm not fond of offal though and I wont feed it to my kids just because I dont like it.
but all the oldies here swear that kidney and liver and heart and brains etc are delicious. Not this little black duck. Not because its evil, just because I'ma wuss and wont try it. haha
 
Genesis 4

1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.



In last months news -

In the USA, George Rene Francis of Sacramento, California, turned 110 on 4 June 2007 – despite his supposedly 'unhealthy diet'. UPI and the Sacramento Bee said that 'many partygoers were simply aghast at the 110-year-old's ability to survive a history of unhealthy eating habits. "If you look at his eating history, he's lived a long time for all the wrong reasons," his son, Tony Francis is quoted as saying. "He drank tons of milk, ate tons of eggs, lard on bread and pork-salt sandwiches."




Good thing the Okinawans are Buddhist – from the Weston Price Foundation

Before we throw up our hands and decide that no conclusions can be made about diet and health in China, let us turn our attention to the mixed peoples of Okinawa, situated equidistant from Hong Kong and Tokyo. The average lifespan for women in Okinawa is 84 (compared to 79 in American), and the island boasts a disproportionately large number of centenarians. Okinawans have low levels of chronic illness—osteoporosis, cancer, diabetes, atherosclerosis and stroke—compared to America, China and Japan, which allows them to continue to work, even in advanced years. In spite of Okinawa's horrific role in World War II, as the site of one of the bloodiest battles of the Pacific, Okinawa is a breezy, pleasant place, neither crowded nor polluted, with a strong sense of family and community and where the local people produce much of what they consume.
And what do Okinawans eat? The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthy—and very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine.19 And the whole pig is eaten—everything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per day—compared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in China—and at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lard—not vegetable oil—is used in cooking.
 
The oldest man in the USA -
In the USA, George Rene Francis of Sacramento, California, turned 110 on 4 June 2007 – despite his supposedly 'unhealthy diet'. UPI and the Sacramento Bee said that 'many partygoers were simply aghast at the 110-year-old's ability to survive a history of unhealthy eating habits. "If you look at his eating history, he's lived a long time for all the wrong reasons," his son, Tony Francis is quoted as saying. "He drank tons of milk, ate tons of eggs, lard on bread and pork-salt sandwiches."

Adding to the mystery, the Bee said, is Francis' unwillingness to visit a doctor for much of his life and his love of cigars, that he only gave up when he turned 75. "Smoking don't hurt nobody," he said.





From the Weston Price Foudation
Food in China - Variety and Monotony
Before we throw up our hands and decide that no conclusions can be made about diet and health in China, let us turn our attention to the mixed peoples of Okinawa, situated equidistant from Hong Kong and Tokyo. The average lifespan for women in Okinawa is 84 (compared to 79 in American), and the island boasts a disproportionately large number of centenarians. Okinawans have low levels of chronic illness—osteoporosis, cancer, diabetes, atherosclerosis and stroke—compared to America, China and Japan, which allows them to continue to work, even in advanced years. In spite of Okinawa's horrific role in World War II, as the site of one of the bloodiest battles of the Pacific, Okinawa is a breezy, pleasant place, neither crowded nor polluted, with a strong sense of family and community and where the local people produce much of what they consume.
And what do Okinawans eat? The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthy—and very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine.19 And the whole pig is eaten—everything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per day—compared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in China—and at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lard—not vegetable oil—is used in cooking.



Most people that eat high fat foods do have less heart disease. The brain is 50% fat so we had to have a high fat diet for our brains to develop to what they are now – now what made us is bad for us???:confused:
A High Fat, Low Carbohydrate Diet Improves Alzheimer's Disease In Mice

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051017072307.htm
 
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