seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Does this sound like I said eco-fascists do not exist?Good definition?!
By her own admission her definition doesn't exist!
Oh well... I'm just messing with you anyway. This what happens when I take a day off from work.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Indeed, this CO2 demonization bruhaha very much resembles a religion.
Rush Limbaugh uses very unfortunate words. He invokes hateful language to see if it resonates. Sometimes it does, too bad.
Limbaugh also calls women who stand for equality - Femi-nazis. Does anyone want to defend that one as well ?
When someone has to call others names, it is usually because he has already lost the argument.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I shall endeavour to substitute my above description instead of employing the term eco-fascist, then.
SG, thanks, I do not see you as someone who uses name calling to make their point.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Thank you.
I'd like your opinion on the worry regarding the Chinese hydroelectric projects creating a "sub-prime" carbon-credit market," and the horror over the idea that this might lower green energy prices? (The carbon credit system is designed to keep green energy prices high.)
China hydropower subprime carbon flood may slow | Reuters
More on subprime carbon credit trading and a possible "carbon bubble":
http://www.foe.org/pdf/SubprimeCarbonReport.pdf
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Methinks this deserves a separate thread.
shawn
Well-Known Member
I think that eco-fascist's is a great handle which I will continue to use, as such a political force exists.
If I had spoke disparagingly about the "brown shirt fascists" in the 30's, the majority would also have had stern reprimands for me, but as history has shown, such comments would have been well placed.
Just watch and see.
Shawn, since you are using such a sophisticated approach as name calling, I re-set my avatar to show what Einstein's reaction would have been to your argument.
T
Tao_Equus
Guest
I have had an on/off connection and employment within the ecological/conservation movement for close to 25 years now and can say without hesitation that it is thoroughly infected with eco-fascists. The higher you go the more there are too. Most of the old eco organisations have become little more than friendly rubber stamp quangos for government and industry.
citizenzen
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One might same the exact same this belief in eco-fascism.
Very much like a religion indeed.
Just like God, people seem to see them as all powerful, yet can't provide evidence that they exist.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Hey, we are in an interglacial period of an ice age. Climate change comes with the territory. Google up "Missoula Floods" or check out Nova's Megaflood webpage for some real interglacial climate change effects.If only you and shawn were as concerned with the real threat (Climate Change) as the imaginary one (Eco Fascists).
I would much rather focus our efforts on the real pollutants rather than CO2. You never know where you might have to relocate to due to the changing interglacial climate. You just might have to relocate to a toxic waste dump that could have been cleaned up if we hadn't been distracted by CO2 emissions.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Here's a really interesting quote from an interview with Vic Baker of the University of Arizona regarding the Missoula floods from Nova's Megaflood webpage:
NOVA: I guess I was just wondering if there's still a lot remaining to be solved geologically at the landscape level, and from what you're saying there is.
Baker: Yeah, the fact that we have science today is by definition an indication we haven't solved things. This is an important point. Some people think science is the collection of facts and truths and everything about the world. Absolutely not. Science is about raising questions about the things we don't know and being very sophisticated about pursuing those problems. If everything was solved, there would be no science. There'd be discussion of facts, but there wouldn't be science.
Interesting, just heard a quote the other day.
Philosophy is not answers to existing questions but questions to existing answers.
citizenzen
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Anybody interested in science knows this.
That must have been the dumbed-down message used for their mass audience.
I thought you didn't like dumbing things down.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Is there anything you'd like to add to it?
shawn
Well-Known Member
Here is some of that global warming for you.
This spring has been late, very late.
Today we had snow. SNOW!!!!!!!
That is the reality.
I haven't seen such a late spring .... ever, and I have lived here 40 + years.
And Avi, I didn't call you or anyone else here an eco-fascist.
I said that they abound.
So thanks for clarifying what ideology you identify with.
This spring has been late, very late.
Today we had snow.
SNOW!!!!!!!That is the reality.
I haven't seen such a late spring .... ever, and I have lived here 40 + years.
And Avi, I didn't call you or anyone else here an eco-fascist.
I said that they abound.
So thanks for clarifying what ideology you identify with.
citizenzen
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You just confuse me sometimes. You claim to hate dumbing things down but then post a quote fit for an 6th grader.
6th grader: Gee Mr. Smith, you mean science doesn't know all the answers?
Mr. Smith: I'm afraid not Timmy. There's a lot of things science can't explain yet.
6th grader: Jeepers!
Now I'm a little different than you. (as if you didn't know) I have no problem with "dumbed-down" messages and actually value them, because in this world where we have to absorb so much stimuli, from so many different sources, those messages must be clear, simple and concise to have impact!
So in California, you don't get: 27315. (a) The Legislature finds that a mandatory seatbelt law will contribute to reducing highway deaths and injuries by encouraging greater usage of existing manual seatbelts, that automatic crash protection systems which require no action by vehicle occupants offer the best hope of reducing deaths and injuries, and that encouraging the use of manual safety belts is only a partial remedy for addressing this major cause of death and injury. The Legislature declares that the enactment of this section is intended to be compatible with support for federal safety standards requiring automatic crash protection systems and should not be used in any manner to rescind federal requirements for installation of automatic restraints in new cars.
You get: Click it or Ticket!
Which one do you think people will remember? Which one do you think will save more lives?
With climate change you get: What's your carbon footprint?
Instead of: Ice cores provide evidence for variation in greenhouse gas concentrations over the past 800,000 years. Both CO2 and CH4 vary between glacial and interglacial phases, and concentrations of these gases correlate strongly with temperature. Before the ice core record, direct data does not exist. However, various proxies and modelling suggests large variations; 500 million years ago CO2 levels were likely 10 times higher than now.[12] Indeed higher CO2 concentrations are thought to have prevailed throughout most of the Phanerozoic eon, with concentrations four to six times current concentrations during the Mesozoic era, and ten to fifteen times current concentrations during the early Palaeozoic era until the middle of the Devonian period, about 400 Ma.[13][14][15] The spread of land plants is thought to have reduced CO2 concentrations during the late Devonian, and plant activities as both sources and sinks of CO2 have since been important in providing stabilising feedbacks.[16] Earlier still, a 200-million year period of intermittent, widespread glaciation extending close to the equator (Snowball Earth) appears to have been ended suddenly, about 550 Ma, by a colossal volcanic outgassing which raised the CO2 concentration of the atmosphere abruptly to 12%, about 350 times modern levels, causing extreme greenhouse conditions and carbonate deposition as limestone at the rate of about 1 mm per day.[17] This episode marked the close of the Precambrian eon, and was succeeded by the generally warmer conditions of the Phanerozoic, during which multicellular animal and plant life evolved. No volcanic carbon dioxide emission of comparable scale has occurred since. In the modern era, emissions to the atmosphere from volcanoes are only about 1% of emissions from human sources.
Try fitting that on a bumper sticker?
Mr. Smith: And you know what's the best part Timmy? Even a semi-smart person can dig past the dumbed-down message to get enough detailed information to choke an army of starving elephants.
6th grader: So these messages are like doorways to discovery?
Mr. Smith: *chuckles* That's right Timmy... that's right. Now get outta here. Miss Tenderthighs and I have some...*ahem*... papers to grade.
6th grader: Awww, gee whiz!
citizenzen
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Oh and shawn? Did you notice the the line in my previous post: In the modern era, emissions to the atmosphere from volcanoes are only about 1% of emissions from human sources.*
I believe you owe me $20.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gases
I believe you owe me $20.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gases
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Actually, shawn, it's not volcanoes that produce more greenhouse gases than humans do, it's the natural wetlands of the earth that produce more greenhouse gases than human industry. I'd really hate to be without our wetlands. They do most of the heavy lifting when it comes to purifying the water. (They are also carbon sinks.)