Hello, trying to find where I fit in

[Shih Yo Chi]

I came across these forums while searching to see if there were organized groups with beliefs similar to my own. I have never studied religion, but have come to my beliefs through years of trying to understand what it is that I do believe. My beliefs don’t seem to fit into any group that I know of. If you have an idea where I fit, I’d like to hear it.

I believe that “God is all, and all is God”, but I also believe that there is an “order and power” that flows through the fabric of the universe that cannot be explained by scientific or rational thought. I don’t see a personified God that makes decisions or consciously affects the universe. I believe that some talented or trained beings (not only people) can tap that “order and power” to perform “miracles”, for lack of a better word. I sometimes consider myself Christian because I believe that this was Jesus’ true message, that we are all “children of God” no less than he was and we need to become aware of our own godliness and attain our spiritual potential. In other words, Jesus’ life’s work was one of how to live, not as a sacrifice to God. Never really understood that part of Christianity even though I was raised as one. I believe that people should do the right things in their lives just because it’s the right thing, not to receive any cosmic favors. I’ve not thought about the afterlife discussion very much, probably as a reaction to my distaste to the way orthodox Christianity uses hell and heaven as a threat/reward. I always wonder if the only reason a person does the right thing is that they’re afraid of going to hell, is that really a way to achieve spiritual fulfillment.

It’s hard for me to put these things into words that make sense. I’d be happy to answer any questions if I haven’t made myself clear. I’m looking forward to participating in this forum, it seems that even when members disagree they are still polite.

 

[Pathless]

Welcome, Shih Yo Chi!

It sounds to me like you are a Christian that attempts to emulate Christ; to me, the best kind of Christian, and I dare say a true Christian. You also seem like a universalist, with your assertion that "God is all, all is God" and your belief that certain beings can tap into the divine order. I wonder if you think it is only certain beings, or is it something that everyone (and it sounds like you would also include animals...?) has the capability of. I am also wondering what drives you to want to find out where you fit in. Are you wanting to classify yourself so that you can align yourself with like minds? From what you've posted, it seems like you've got a positive idea about God and the connection of entities in the world to God, yet that's not enough for you. Unfortunately, I can't tell you where you fit in, but I do think you've got the right attitude.

 

[iBrian]

Hi Shih Yo Chi, and welcome to CR.

As for fitting in - nothing wrong with being individual. I also have problems being pigeon-holed, but it doesn't bother myself.

By you screen alias does this mean that you have made a point of exploring Tao? If not, it may certainly be an interesting point of reference to work from - especially in terms of an impersonal God.

Hope that helps.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, namastar ji, hej, konnichiwa, ni hau, squeak, meow, :wave: Shih Yo Chi. Please excuse the romanji spelling of ni hau since I don't have a Mandarin dictionary in front of me.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Shih Yo Chi]

Thanks for Feedback

I'll think try to reply to the questions.
Pathless: I think all creatures have the potiential to tap the divine order, but only some reach that point. I guess I'm looking for where I fit in for two reasons, first, it would be nice to find a community of like minded individuals and secondly, I guess I'm just curious if anyone alse has reached the same conslusions that I have. I also wonder what the reaction of Christians will be to my belief that Christ's life and not death is the important part of his teachings. I've made a point, untill this, of not expressing my views to Christians.
I, Brian: I have explored the Tao, a college experience with it probably started my spiritual self examination. I love the Tao, but feel very sad when I read it that I can't experience it in the original Chinese. My understanding of the way it is written is that it's a very different experience when studied in Chinese.
Phyllis: I knew what it meant and that's all that counts.

Further Question: If I wanted to start a discussion on my beliefs concerning Christ, what would be the best forum to start?

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Shih Yo Chi, and welcome!

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally posted by Shih Yo Chi
Further Question: If I wanted to start a discussion on my beliefs concerning Christ, what would be the best forum to start?

Try the Monotheism section or (possibly) the Comparative Studies section.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Try logical thinking.

Dear Shih:

You do already have a number of beliefs in things which are generally acknowledged by people religious and otherwise as belonging to the sphere of religion.

Now, I would suggest that you work first on what exactly is religion as a human endeavor and as a discipline and as a domain of knowledge, drawing some logical conclusions based on the facts of religious beliefs and practices and consequences as people exhibit and even prosecute in their behavior in the name of religion.

When you have arrived at enough conclusions, see if you can accept or add to or modify my own definition of religion which I think is based on observations of religion in human life and in society, and formulated on logic, namely:

Religion is a human behavior founded upon a belief in an unknown power resulting in affections and actions intended by the believer to influence the power to react favorably to himself.

What about myself? Susma is a postgraduate Catholic. What is that? Think about what postgraduate guys are supposed to have in the way of attitudes and attempts at certainty in human learning.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[Victor]

A Prayer for your understanding

Rabi'a was an eighth century female Sufi, one who taught an ascetic style of life. Her mystical teachings brought her many followers and great fame in Islam. But most remembered is her simple prayer to the God she loved. I think you will appreciate it.

"Dear God, if I worship thee out of fear of hell, then exile me there forever. If I worship thee for hope of gaining Paradise, then banish me from it forever, but if I worship Thee for Thee alone, then keep not Thy eternal beauty from me."

In the living Christ, I am, Victor

 

[Shih Yo Chi]

Great Prayer

Victor, I think that is a wonderful prayer. It echoes my thoughts on the motivation for actions. I believe that motivation can be as important as actions in a spiritual life.

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Giving compliments to God

Victor writes about a mystic's prayer to God:

"Dear God, if I worship thee out of fear of hell, then exile me there forever. If I worship thee for hope of gaining Paradise, then banish me from it forever, but if I worship Thee for Thee alone, then keep not Thy eternal beauty from me."


Since we want to imagine God and deal with Him in a human manner, God might just react in a human manner to that kind of a prayer with the retort:

"Don't patronize me!"[/b]


I see in that kind of a prayer the vanity oozing out from the heart and mind of the author putting God in His place, by telling Him that His gifts don't attract and His threats don't scare. What arrogance.

Maybe that mystic should entertain the idea that she might not be worthy of God Himself, but might deserve some crumbs from His table.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[Phi]

Victor writes about a mystic's prayer to God:

"Dear God, if I worship thee out of fear of hell, then exile me there forever. If I worship thee for hope of gaining Paradise, then banish me from it forever, but if I worship Thee for Thee alone, then keep not Thy eternal beauty from me."


Since we want to imagine God and deal with Him in a human manner, God might just react in a human manner to that kind of a prayer with the retort:

"Don't patronize me!"[/b]


I see in that kind of a prayer the vanity oozing out from the heart and mind of the author putting God in His place, by telling Him that His gifts don't attract and His threats don't scare. What arrogance.

Maybe that mystic should entertain the idea that she might not be worthy of God Himself, but might deserve some crumbs from His table.

Susma Rio Sep

Actually, Susma, since it is up to the O (Originator of all things) to choose whether to patronize or to matronize (reach out with the arms of an understanding mother) to this mystic, I find your response patronizing.

Insofar as the crumbs from his table comment is concerned:
Christ did not initially refuse help to the person who requested his help for being female(do you?), but for not being a Jew (and this was the writer's understanding of the word's of Christ and not from the words of Christ who may have been testing her for humility by his saying, for he did not mind feeding the Samaritan woman before all the children were fed, did he?), and when she then countered with the "crumbs from the Master's table" analogy, according to KJV Matthew, Jesus said "O woman great is thy faith." Apparently, upon her response to him, Jesus himself decided that the woman's faith was worthy of a miracle, even prior to seeing that all "the children" of Judea were fed. He rewarded her humility with more than mere crumbs.

I believe that the prayer is one of greatest humility, in that the woman is admitting that even she herself cannot be absolutely certain of her piety and her inner motives, and asks God to decide for her and will humbly accept the worst of consequences for any lack in her own spirit.

Can you be sure of your inner motive in this response? Perhaps it might be good to think more on it.