Thanks for giving me more to think about, DeanFox.
Did I mention I'm an atheist? That aside my take is that if there is a god then all theist religions are wrong because they all imbued their impression of god with traits no god should have.
Says who? You? Well, I agree with you... so both of us say so.
Except I don't consider myself Atheist.
According to dictionaries, Atheists - are those who believe that God doesn't exist.
Yet, who's definition of God are they considering?
Most would agree on defining one aspect of God as the creator of the universe - or as Aristotle called it, "Prime Mover."
Isn't it silly to deny the existence of the universe - & isn't that what one is doing by denying a creator - however, or whoever it is?
I once considered setting up my own religion. Although I don't believe there is a god because there is no proof I can speculate to form the basis of a religion. Sadly my atheist conscience wouldn't let me abuse people like that.
Yeah, I think a service volunteer organization would be better way of gathering people to do GOoD.
All that said if I were to speculate the god would be a force for absolute order and the devil a force for absolute chaos. Before existance they were absolute states. Since nothing can be absolutely order or absolutely chaotic nothing existed; this may never have been the case as such is infinity.
Existance started when the two states met and became forces acting on the other to convert them to their absolute state. Everything that was, is and will be is a manifestation of the actions of the force of chaos and order on each other. Put simply take the atom, the force of order keeps it together while the force of chaos keeps it moving.
The two forces are manifest at all levels from the atom through the interactions of energies through to how things work in nature and even how we behave.
This paradox of both order and chaos, is something I have a hard time wrapping my mind around - but I think it's nevertheless true.
Maybe it's just because I'm trying to "judge" or distinguish which is right & which is wrong - when both are equally needed.
When we die our essence is recycled, we become chaos and order in another form.
That will be an adventure!
Basic morality is if it causes harm it is chaotic and wrong. If it helps bring order and improvement it's good.
For practical purposes, we must conclude before there is any real conclusion. Yet, in an honest search for truth about right and wrong... they are too mixed up. IE: Is it good if I let my child go cold as a result of forgetting her jacket? She may get sick... but then again, maybe she'll LEARN & be more careful about remembering things and considering consequences of her actions.
I could write a book on this showing how mathematics, the only discplin that can truely prove anything backs this up. My concepts fit scientifically. The basic unit of the universe is a single unit of chaos or order and neither can truely exist.
Why do you think mathematics is the only way to prove things?
It's not the only way to think - it's too limited to be the sole source of truth.
What you mentioned about the single unit of chaos or order reminds me of what Leibniz wrote... "... the Principle of Sufficient Reason, in virtue of which we believe that no fact can be real and no statement true unless it has a sufficient reason why it should be thus and not otherwise. Most frequently, however, these reasons cannot be known to us.... Now this interconnection, relationship, or this adaptation of all things to each particular one, and of each one to all the rest, brings it about that every simple substance has relations which express all the others and that it is consequently a perpetual living mirror of the universe."
I've just come from a discussion on churches, one which you touch on. The conclusion was that churches are redundant. One doesn't need them to be spiritual or be a good person or to do good things.
One can study all manner of philosophies and share ideas like never before. While some take comfort in religion one doesn't need churches; yes I believe the first 4 commandments were written by a human to create the need for churches.
Although I agree that we don't need churches, I think we need people - and church tends to be a convenient way of gathering people together.
I'd disagree about the 4 commandments (except maybe the 4th)... ironically, I think they are about not having church. Of course, many will disagree with me.
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
God is love... If you worship Jesus, Mohammad/Mecca or Buddha, you are having other gods before God.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
According to this commandment, it is wrong to have statues or pictures of Jesus, Buddha to enhance worship
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Any religion that does not strive to love others (esp. poor) and instead use Jesus' (or others who represent God) name to make money are violating this commandment.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
This commandment was exaggerated... to the point of how many steps one could take on the sabbath. Then Jesus taught, "The sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath" - In other words, religious rituals and teachings are for the spiritual learning & benefit of people... not to become gods/ends in themselves.
All theist religions follow the same basic tenets which are only worship this god. Be good (don't hurt people but more importantly do as you're told) and honor the family or clan (tithe to your church)
Other than be good, with the caveat that one must do what one is told above all else, the moral guidance of religions is rubbish. You need only look at the number of religious fundamentalists who support the sanctity of life and the death penalty to realise how poor religion is as a moral compass. Thou shalt not kill the anti abortionists scream (except for those on death row). An if the church says their needs to be a lynching that's good too.
If I understand you right... it is more moral to do good from your heart, than to be told to do it.
I think that religion acts like parents... some need parents still, even as adults.
Unfortunately, not many will do good out of their own good character... so we need laws... and religion can fill in where laws fail. Yet, they can also go to the other extreme and create shameful, fearful robots.
