Ultimate texts

[dauer]

I think you may be over-simplifying things a tiny bit by fleshing out your methodology so much, however I'm a fairly hard skeptic. Just the same I like systematic analysis and I like charts. Write a b00k plz. thx. k bai.

-- dauer

 

[seattlegal]

First of all, their point of view fails the method 1 test, because everyone does not agree that the literal meaning is obviously true. If they are sympathetic to the metaphorical meaning, but it isn't obviously true then the metaphor fails method 1 as well. It is not an 'Ultimate' truth like the seed-plant relationship, but something more difficult to accept. This doesn't invalidate either view, and it doesn't establish the text as divine or infallible. It just means neither viewpoint is intrinsically obvious.

I could also check the rest of the text to see if the overall theme is more in line with the metaphorical version or the literal.

I think the term "eyes to see and ears to hear" is used to describe the "sympathetic."

You can't really pin down or objectify subjectivity. You are either in tune with it, or you're not.

 

[Dream]

Seattlegirl, you have been on these forums much longer than I have. I looked 'Subjectivity' up on the Wikipedia to see if its a real word. It is!

Here's the first pinch of the article:

In reason, subjectivity refers to the property of perceptions, arguments, and language as being based in a subject's point of view, and hence influenced in accordance with a particular bias. Its opposite property is objectivity, which refers to such as based in a separate, distant, and unbiased point of view, such that concepts discussed are treated as objects.

So after all this time on these forums, you've come to the conclusion that a biased point of view blinds the viewer? That is what it means when you say you can't 'Pin down subjectivity' and that you have to be 'In tune' with it? In other words if I have a strong opinion it instantly means I'm not able to understand a different opinion? Perhaps you are right, however I don't think you are seeing my point of view. (Ok Ok I'm just kidding)

Strong emotional opinions can blind us, but the absence of emotion cripples us. In the end we do have to admit that we're not perfect logic machines. I approach a forum like this with the objective of learning which only occasionally requires that I share my own opinion.

 

[Dream]

A book? I'd rather chew the same piece of gum for a year.

 

[seattlegal]

Seattlegirl, you have been on these forums much longer than I have. I looked 'Subjectivity' up on the Wikipedia to see if its a real word. It is!

Here's the first pinch of the article:So after all this time on these forums, you've come to the conclusion that a biased point of view blinds the viewer? That is what it means when you say you can't 'Pin down subjectivity' and that you have to be 'In tune' with it? In other words if I have a strong opinion it instantly means I'm not able to understand a different opinion? Perhaps you are right, however I don't think you are seeing my point of view. (Ok Ok I'm just kidding)

How do you describe "green?"
You can go the scientific route by saying that it is the portion of the visible light spectrum with a wavelength of 520–570 nm, but does that really convey green? If you are standing in blindingly bright white light, you might not be able to "tune into" green.

Strong emotional opinions can blind us, but the absence of emotion cripples us.

I like this line. May I borrow it?

In the end we do have to admit that we're not perfect logic machines. I approach a forum like this with the objective of learning which only occasionally requires that I share my own opinion.

Better watch out for me, then. I'm a notorious button-pusher who will push your buttons in order to get you to write the thoughts and opinions that are on your mind if you do not voluntarily share them.

A book? I'd rather chew the same piece of gum for a year.

Here you go, Dream.

How that for an "Ultimate Text?"

 

[dauer]

That is a most awesome comic.

 

[Dream]

That comic is hilarious, but why does the green dinosaur have a rubber-band strapped over his head?

How do you describe "green?"
You can go the scientific route by saying that it is the portion of the visible light spectrum with a wavelength of 520–570 nm, but does that really convey green? If you are standing in blindingly bright white light, you might not be able to "tune into" green.

Under a blindingly green light, white objects appear green and red objects appear black. Green sits between blue and yellow and is the least disputed color in the rainbow.

I like this line. May I borrow it?

Certainly, however there may be a copy-cat clause on this site. If you're going to make some money with that line, better tell me so we can smudge it out of our posts.

Better watch out for me, then. I'm a notorious button-pusher who will push your buttons in order to get you to write the thoughts and opinions that are on your mind if you do not voluntarily share them.

You're flirting.

 

[seattlegal]

That comic is hilarious, but why does the green dinosaur have a rubber-band strapped over his head?

Under a blindingly green light, white objects appear green and red objects appear black. Green sits between blue and yellow and is the least disputed color in the rainbow.

You have "tuned into" green light and have described some of the biases associated with it, without pinning down subjectivity. Good try, though.

Certainly, however there may be a copy-cat clause on this site. If you're going to make some money with that line, better tell me so we can smudge it out of our posts.

Thank you!

You're flirting.

Nope.

 

[mee]

Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. MATTHEW 6;10

 

[Thomas]

Just an observation, but to 'judge' and 'Ultimate text' from without requires that one knows the ultimate end of human existence.

To even begin to judge implies one is in possession of all the data necessary to make an informed judgement ... and as we are not in possession of such data, we are in no position to make any such judgements, or rather, any judgement offered is founded on ignorance.

Therefore all one can do is accept the ultimate aspect — by which I presume one would mean eschatalogical — of a text in faith, or not.

Thomas

 

[Dream]

Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. MATTHEW 6;10

Mee, that prayer contains the gospel truth. I will offer you two texts:

• Luke 8:11-12 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, that they may not believe and be saved.
• Matthew 14:31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, "O man of little faith, why did you doubt?"

The first text says that a believer like you cannot have the word of God stolen from you by any devil, because you understood the gospel and it sank down into you. The second text explains why you are afraid to discuss your faith and think about what people are saying. A sea of slamming doors has distracted you from the fact that you cannot sink, and you've been made to feel like you're alone when you're really not. You seem on your guard in case someone deceives you -- but the leaven of sin and pride is the only thing you need to guard against. For the good of the evangelicals and other protestants I would really like to see you JW's be less afraid to lose your sheep and yourselves.

 

[mee]

The second text explains why you are afraid to discuss your faith and think about what people are saying. quote]



why do you say that i am afraid to discuss my faith the fact is that i always talk about the kingdom and the wonderful promises in the bible , and i do that because i have faith in the bible and what it teaches .


if i was afraid to talk about it i would not be on this site and i would not go from door to door .

and make no mistake about it, i do hear and listen to what others say , but it is because i am keeping my focus on what the bible REALLY teaches .
And yes ,as you mentioned the kingdom of God is what it is all about ,it is only Gods kingdom that will bring PEACE to the earth and Jesus plays a very big part in that purpose of God .

and when Jesus has accomplished everything that his fatherJEHOVAH wants ,he will then hand the kingdom back to his father 1 CORINTHIANS 15;228

 

[mee]

The first text says that a believer like you cannot have the word of God stolen from you by any devil, because you understood the gospel and it sank down into you. .

and as we all know the devil will try again and again to steal what is not his to have .BAD

 

[mee]

A sea of slamming doors has distracted you from the fact that you cannot sink, and you've been made to feel like you're alone when you're really not. .

many people think many things but not always according to accurate knowledge.


for me the fact that i am with a crowd of others from all nations doing just what Jesus commanded brings great joy revelation 7;9-10 matthew 24;14 matthew 28-19-20


so the slamming doors are not a distraction it is all part of being a christian doing the will of God .

and even if people do slam doors it is putting people on notice that the goodnews is being made known . it is for a witness .......... AND THEN THE END OF HUMAN RULERSHIP WILL COME ................ yes the GOODNEWS is being made known and those who respond to that GOODNEWS will go on to recieve GREAT BLESSINGS

 

[mee]

You seem on your guard in case someone deceives you -- .

i have good armor thats why

"Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil . . . Take up the complete suit of armor from God, that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm."—Ephesians 6:10, 11, 13.

 

[mee]

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18​

 

[Dream]

why do you say that i am afraid to discuss my faith the fact is that i always talk about the kingdom and the wonderful promises in the bible , and i do that because i have faith in the bible and what it teaches .


if i was afraid to talk about it i would not be on this site and i would not go from door to door .

This was the central question I had. So you are not afraid to discuss your faith, but that was just the impression I was getting. Partly its because I often see a post from you that is unrelated to what people are talking about (its usually some preaching), and then the people in that forum take your post as being very rude. You don't seem to mind that they think so, and you continue to do it everywhere else. You don't engage the subject, which is why I thought you were afraid. I know the topic in this thread has moved slightly from 'Give me the ultimate text' to 'How do you know its an ultimate text?', but you decided it was time for all of us to discuss the gospel. Why not just lock us up and then talk to us?

 

[mee]

This was the central question I had. So you are not afraid to discuss your faith, but that was just the impression I was getting. Partly its because I often see a post from you that is unrelated to what people are talking about (its usually some preaching), and then the people in that forum take your post as being very rude. You don't seem to mind that they think so, and you continue to do it everywhere else. You don't engage the subject, which is why I thought you were afraid. I know the topic in this thread has moved slightly from 'Give me the ultimate text' to 'How do you know its an ultimate text?', but you decided it was time for all of us to discuss the gospel. Why not just lock us up and then talk to us?

i was just quoting what the ultimate texts for me are, but it is other ones who are offended by those texts . not my fault

 

[Dream]

Sure, and this thread is about figuring out which text is ultimate. I can tell, however, that you often do not engage at all in the thought process for a thread. Take for instance, the "Mesopotamian Origins" thread on page 4. People were trying to think through things in there, but you were presenting yourself sort of like a prophet. In other words, whatever issues people were having in that thread you didn't address them, except to publish the opinion that the Bible is correct in multiple posts and with different phrases. A lot of those people have Christian backgrounds and are thinking things over again, because certain answers didn't satisfy them before. They have to work through things. It is a very individual and spiritual process that should be respected. Wouldn't you also prefer to think things through?

 

[mee]

Wouldn't you also prefer to think things through?

YES INDEED and i have, i am not stopping anyone thinking things through just adding to the thoughts , then they can have a bit more to think about . nice