Jesus (pbuh) - failed Prophet

See there...and I see Muslims, all mankind, as children of G!d sons and daughters, made in His image...

And I see us all as servants of G-d, as is every living thing (animals, trees, Prophets, angels, demons - you name it they are servants of G-d). He is the Master of everything.

It is one of the mental changes you have to make Wil when you convert. The only way I can think to describe it is to liken it to that day when you are a teenager and your Dad says "I have given you everything in life, now it is time you learn the value of money and start earning your keep". I admit, I went through a period of harsh adjustment, I had lost my soft safe bubble of Christianity, that safe internal child that believed G-d wrapped His love around me and protected me. I now had to submit and work hard, to think about every deed, every word I spoke. I had to accept that I had to be deserving of G-d's love, mercy and compassion, not assume it by virtue of believing in Him. After a while I learnt to really enjoy being a servant, when I realised just how amazing my Master is. :)
 
Well, you have thrown Love (patience, mercy, compassion, etc...) in with faith as if it were the reward or payment for faithful service. As if, "He loves me because I serve him." I do NOT find that in the Qu'ran, but I do find it in parts of both Islam and Churchianity.
 
Oh when you have time please will you PM how you managed this (I need step by step instructions, as I am such an addict).

No offense... But you are not yet ready... Trust me.... lol I know these things.

"Step by step instructions? It's easy! I've quit! About six hundred times...." ;)
OR!
"You said your an addict? They're not addictive! I should know! I've been smoking for ten years straight!"
 
if you want to give up smoking, MW, consider this: both islam and judaism consider that you have your body on lease from G!D and you are responsible in Divine Law for unreasonable dilapidations. smoking is an abuse of the facilities Provided by our Creator. think of it the same way you (presumably) think of booze and that ought to help.

of course, i've never smoked, but i was effectively aversion-therapied when i was 7.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
I admit, I went through a period of harsh adjustment, I had lost my soft safe bubble of Christianity, that safe internal child that believed G-d wrapped His love around me and protected me. I now had to submit and work hard, to think about every deed, every word I spoke. I had to accept that I had to be deserving of G-d's love, mercy and compassion, not assume it by virtue of believing in Him.

The concept of "The Father" in Christianity implies that we regard God as a paternal figure in our lives. As a father myself, I do not have to make an effort to love my children, nor do I expect my children to perform a certain way in orde4r to gain my love. Yes, there are times when they do wrong, disobey, or rebel against my wishes, and that is when the hammer of discipline needs to be enforced, but that doesn't me from loving my children. What it does do is drive a wedge in the relationship that is hurtful to me.

Some children make it a lifelong ambition to rebell against their parents, and by extention, against authority itself. But even in the worse cases like in the case of a deathrow inmate, a mother will often be inclined to say that her baby is a good boy. Misguided as that is, the love she has for her child is still valid, even though he is deserving of punishment.

As a father, I want the best for my children. What may seem like a harsh punishment or strict set of rules to them is only an attempt to discipline them for later life. In the here and now, they do not yet have the concept of knowing what is good for them. When they get to the age of maturity, hopefully it will dawn on them that, "Hey, my parents were right about this thing afterall." What they learned they incorporate into their lives. And they will know why I was so hard on them early in life. "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." - Proverbs 22:6

In a manner of speaking, we need to earn respect from God. We need to be obedient to God, not to earn His Love, for He loves us already, but that His Love may be manifested in our lives. He wants us to be forgiving and compasionate because He is forgiving and compassionate.

For example, if your kid comes home from school and tell your he beat up someone's elses honor student, it does no good to ask you forgiveness, does it? Because you are not going to gain his sympathy. Rather he should go to the person he offended and ask forgiveness from them first and reconcil any differences, maybe even do something for that person to make up for kicking the snot out of them. Then he can come to you and ask forgiveness, whereby you can forgive, but also teach him why he shouldn't beat up honor students and maybe get to the root problem he has with honor students.
 
Well, you have thrown Love (patience, mercy, compassion, etc...) in with faith as if it were the reward or payment for faithful service. As if, "He loves me because I serve him." I do NOT find that in the Qu'ran, but I do find it in parts of both Islam and Churchianity.

Good point, cyberpi. When we try to earn God's love, we are bound to fail. I mean, how much ddo we need to do before He say, "Ok, I love you now." It becomes performance-based, and not true love. It is like a marriage. When two people get married, they don't perform or love their spouses in order to stay married, but they perform or love their spouses because they are married. They are bound by a promise to love, honor, and obey.
 
if you want to give up smoking, MW, consider this: both islam and judaism consider that you have your body on lease from G!D and you are responsible in Divine Law for unreasonable dilapidations. smoking is an abuse of the facilities Provided by our Creator. think of it the same way you (presumably) think of booze and that ought to help.

of course, i've never smoked, but i was effectively aversion-therapied when i was 7.

b'shalom

bananabrain


"booze" isn't as addictive as heroine however is it :\ Nicotine is.
 
Typing on CR may cause Carpal Tunnel and can be avoided. Thus could be considered unreasonable dilapidations.
Guilt is never really a good motivator.
And when and if you fail it just takes all the incentive
to try again out of you.

And now abideth faith, hope, love, these three;
but the greatest of these is love

here are a few good reasons to do anything
 
if this person who wrote this article, and the many muslims who continue to say "jesus is a prophet (pbuh), etc..." why not continue reading about him; the parables, the miracles, the teachings, the healings, and all the good he went about doing?
 
And I see us all as servants of G-d, as is every living thing (animals, trees, Prophets, angels, demons - you name it they are servants of G-d). He is the Master of everything.

It is one of the mental changes you have to make Wil when you convert. The only way I can think to describe it is to liken it to that day when you are a teenager and your Dad says "I have given you everything in life, now it is time you learn the value of money and start earning your keep". I admit, I went through a period of harsh adjustment, I had lost my soft safe bubble of Christianity, that safe internal child that believed G-d wrapped His love around me and protected me. I now had to submit and work hard, to think about every deed, every word I spoke. I had to accept that I had to be deserving of G-d's love, mercy and compassion, not assume it by virtue of believing in Him. After a while I learnt to really enjoy being a servant, when I realised just how amazing my Master is. :)

That was the way I felt before I got to know Christ, although you stated it more succinctly than I would have. Before I had a relationship with Him, I was an excellent employee. I was treated well and received ample pay. Once I became a Christian, I was family and my Fathers work became more important than anything. I ceased to be a servant. I was a trusted family member no longer on the outside looking disdainfully in. My heart and mind were opened to the beauty of this world. The "master" is my Father.:)

As for “a warm bubble of protection”, I only really got to know Jesus a few years ago. As a child, I relied on the aforementioned “pump jockey.”
 
think of it the same way you (presumably) think of booze and that ought to help.

That is the strange thing BB, drink was so easy to stop, I just said to myself it is strictly against my religion and stopped. Cigs on the other hand is so much more difficult but perhaps that just shows my lack of willingness to stop, as I make excuses for myself and try to convince myself it isn't really prohibited (which I know is only lying to myself). I am weak but shall keep trying.:(

As if, "He loves me because I serve him." I do NOT find that in the Qu'ran, but I do find it in parts of both Islam and Churchianity.

It is not in the Quran and not quite what I meant, I am finding this very difficult to explain as it is such a personal and individual feeling.

It is like a marriage. When two people get married, they don't perform or love their spouses in order to stay married, but they perform or love their spouses because they are married. They are bound by a promise to love, honor, and obey.

Maybe I can explain it better using your example of marriage Dondi. A marriage takes work, if you neglect it then it can fail. I am aware that G-d loves me and is rooting for me to follow the path and do well (as your example of a father). G-d has provided me every assistance He can to find Him and submit to Him but as they say you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I must do my part, I must work at that relationship, I have made a promise, through my submission, to put the work into that relationship. Do I do it so that I may be rewarded, no, I do it because it makes G-d happy, my service pleases Him, which in turn pleases me. Sometimes that is the hardest part, to be totally selfless and do something purely to please G-d, not because it makes you feel good because you are doing something good for G-d (does that make sense?).

Perhaps my difficulty is that I never understood how to be a good Christian? I felt as though I could not fail, as long as I didn't kill anyone (but even then if I truly repented there was hope for me). As with the father child relationship, G-d will always love me but if I fail I should be punished, as you would punish your child in order to teach them right from wrong. As a Christian I felt that if I repented honestly that sin would be forgiven and wiped out. As a Muslim I know nothing can be wiped out, my bad deeds will be shown to me on the Day of Judgement and weighed against my good deeds, insh'allah my good deeds will outweigh my bad. Allah is All Merciful, All Forgiving but I cannot allow myself to try to take advantge of that and assume I will be forgiven if I love Him enough.

I accept it was my failing but I was just trying to explain my personal feelings. As a Muslim I feel more accountable for my every deed. It has gone from a general feeling of doing good to thinking about my every small deed. Maybe that is just the level of concentration I need in order to succeed?

if this person who wrote this article, and the many muslims who continue to say "jesus is a prophet (pbuh), etc..." why not continue reading about him; the parables, the miracles, the teachings, the healings, and all the good he went about doing?

Blazn we do not deny the miracles or the good deeds or his exceptional teachings. We simply believe G-d worked through him as a man, not that he was G-d Himself. If we take miracles as proof of divinity should we not also take Moses (pbuh) as G-d? I hope we will agree that Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and that G-d permitted him to perform miracles.

That was the way I felt before I got to know Christ, although you stated it more succinctly than I would have. Before I had a relationship with Him, I was an excellent employee. I was treated well and received ample pay. Once I became a Christian, I was family and my Fathers work became more important than anything. I ceased to be a servant. I was a trusted family member no longer on the outside looking disdainfully in. My heart and mind were opened to the beauty of this world. The "master" is my Father.:)

G-d does indeed work in mysterious ways Patti. We have each found our path to G-d by changing places. I have become closer to G-d by stopping thinking of myself as a child and now thinking as a faithful and humble servant. You have found your path by becoming G-d's child. Alhamdolillah and I pray we each find peace and guidance on our chosen path.

Salaam
 
Blazn we do not deny the miracles or the good deeds or his exceptional teachings. We simply believe G-d worked through him as a man, not that he was G-d Himself. If we take miracles as proof of divinity should we not also take Moses (pbuh) as G-d? I hope we will agree that Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and that G-d permitted him to perform miracles.Salaam
moses was ntclaiming what jesus claimed, and moses didnt forgive sins of his own authority either. its not just miracles, its his teachings as well, if one is to continue to respect him and seek truth, why are his words not sought after, since the quran is lacking in this respect, and with many other prophets as well.
 
The owner of a gas station can call himself a “pump jockey”, but his children feel the need to set the record straight to those who don’t know him.
Was Jesus a prophet or not? You say NOT, but Jesus said YES... according to the gospels in the bible. Are you claiming the gospel is wrong... or that Jesus was wrong?
 
G-d does indeed work in mysterious ways Patti. We have each found our path to G-d by changing places. I have become closer to G-d by stopping thinking of myself as a child and now thinking as a faithful and humble servant. You have found your path by becoming G-d's child. Alhamdolillah and I pray we each find peace and guidance on our chosen path.

Salaam

I am wondering how well you knew Christ. A child is humble because they want to be, a servant is humble because they feel they have to be. On a previous thread you said you didn't remember learning something about the bible as a child in Sunday school. I responded that it was rather naive to depend on Sunday school for biblical teaching. At that point, you insinuated that I was rude. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If anyone depends on Sunday school as their sole souce of biblical instruction, their knowledge is sorely lacking.

That is what was going on when Christ originally came. The pharisees looked so good on the outside, but it was all show. They had convinced the people that they had to be humble servants and the only way to God was through them. (They were like depending on Sunday school.)Meanwhile, they were pure hypocrites that were always looking for loop holes in the law.

Jesus came to show us that yes, God is creator, and we should pay the utmost respect, but He is also our Father and he loves us. Unconditionally. When that love is reciprocal (Father-child), you don't serve him because you have to, you serve him because you love Him. He is your Father, not your boss. You are his child, not the hired help. You don't have to kiss up to Him, just remember the humility and grace of His sacrifice.

I will genuinely pray that Christ touches your heart.

Karen
 
They had convinced the people that they had to be humble servants and the only way to God was through them.

Hi Karen

That is one of the beauties of Islam, you don't have to go through anybody to get to G-d, we have a direct connection. Every man, woman and child can connect to G-d through prayer, directed straight at G-d.

Jesus came to show us that yes, God is creator, and we should pay the utmost respect, but He is also our Father and he loves us.

We just see things differently. For me G-d is Creator and we should pay the utmost respect. Then the fullstop, there can be no 'but'. G-d is the ultimate ..... 'everything' and that deserves absolute respect.

Unconditionally. When that love is reciprocal (Father-child), you don't serve him because you have to, you serve him because you love Him.

I hope what I said didn't suggest I feel that I 'have' to serve Him, as thought I do it out of obligation or fear of punishment. No. I do it out of love, respect, to honour Him and because He deserves my service. As for G-d not being my boss, well I would beg to differ, He is the ultimate Boss, in this life and the next.

Salaam
Sally
 
I'm sorry I didn't have time to read through the whoel thread, but I wanted to ask you, Muslimwoman, why was Jesus crucified?
 
No. I am stating that you are wrong. Post #16, have you read it? Jesus was not a mere prophet.
Yes... are you reversing from your Post #13:
Really don't have time right now, but has anyone pointed out that Jesus Christ was NOT a prophet at all.
If you are saying that Jesus was/is more than a prophet... in Matthew 11:9-10 Jesus says the same of John the Baptist. If you are saying that Jesus was NOT a prophet at all... why? Since when did 'prophet' become a dirty word?
 
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