I'm curious - is it ever argued within Hinduism that all the gods and experssions of gods are but part of a larger "Oneness of God" - or are Hindu divinities strictly separate identities in their own right?
Polytheism and Hinduism
- Thread starter iBrian
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Pathless
Fiercely Interdependent
Brian, absolutely. The big picture of Hinduism is that although there are millions of gods, they are all just ementations of God, the ground of being, the ultimate reality, cosmic consciousness, whatever you want to call it--just like all the rest of "creation." The idea is that there is one ultimate cause and everything that is manifested, including all these deities, are just expressions of the ultimate, indescribable reality.
On a side note, it seems like it would be logical to start a Hindusim/Polytheism folder with the Buddhist and Taoist ones. But maybe there aren't enough topics to do that yet.
On a side note, it seems like it would be logical to start a Hindusim/Polytheism folder with the Buddhist and Taoist ones. But maybe there aren't enough topics to do that yet.
Ocean_Drop
World Citizen
Many modern Hindu scholars who are returning to Vedic Scripture and translating the original Sanskrit are concluding that Hinduism teaches Monotheism! Many reformers, particularly during the mid-late 1800's introduced such teachings aswell as abandoning idol worship and other customs that are apparently forbidden in the Vedas. One such movement is the Arya Samajist's, brought by Maharishi Dayanand.
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste brian,
as others have touched on... Hinduism (though this is a very broad word used to denote thousands of unrelated practices) is expressly monotheistic!
it's hard to tell, sometimes, due to how the other aspects of the underlying, primordial Deity is viewed... but there you have it
here's a good link to those that have an interest:
www.hindunet.net
as others have touched on... Hinduism (though this is a very broad word used to denote thousands of unrelated practices) is expressly monotheistic!
it's hard to tell, sometimes, due to how the other aspects of the underlying, primordial Deity is viewed... but there you have it
here's a good link to those that have an interest:
www.hindunet.net
Ocean_Drop said:
HA! Just the way that is worded...
The idea of monotheism started coming together around the time of the Upanishads. I have not seen anything to suggest monotheism in the vedas, although Indra does feature more prominently than the other Gods.
If monotheism is to be found in the vedas, it would probably be in the last one which originated around the time of the upanishads. The vedas don't really say much about philosophy and the nature of things though. It's the upanishads which talk of this.
Maybe the "one in the many" is all they search for read this guys story for one mans search for god.Curious if you think he found god ?(the big tits up in the sky)
www.drsvoboda.com/divinefury.htm
www.drsvoboda.com/divinefury.htm
I said:
A
Avinash
Guest
Idol worship and Monotheism
I read in Discoursed on Tantra Vol.1 by Shrii Shrii Anandamurti today that idol worship was started by the lowest of the lowest form of Tantra and was never a part of the more original Vedic religion (which by the way did have other stupid things such as animal sacrifice and fire worship etc.).
Andrew
Ocean_Drop said:
I read in Discoursed on Tantra Vol.1 by Shrii Shrii Anandamurti today that idol worship was started by the lowest of the lowest form of Tantra and was never a part of the more original Vedic religion (which by the way did have other stupid things such as animal sacrifice and fire worship etc.).
Andrew
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste all,
technically, the term for what Hindus believe is called Henotheism.
<snip>
While Hinduism is generally monistic or monotheistic admitting emanating deities, the early Rig Veda (undeveloped early Hinduism) was what Max Muller based his views of henotheism on. In the four Vedas, Muller believed that a striving towards One was being aimed at by the worship of different cosmic principles, such as Agni (fire), Vayu (wind), Indra (rain, thunder, the sky), etc. each of which was variously, by clearly different writers, hailed as supreme in different sections of the books. Indeed, however, what was confusing was an early idea of Rita, or supreme order, that bound all the gods. Other phrases such as Ekam Sat, Vipraha Bahudha Vadanti (Truth is One, though the sages know it as many) led to understandings that the Vedic people admitted to fundamental oneness. From this mix of monism, monotheism and naturalist polytheism Max Muller decided to name the early Vedic religion henotheistic. </snip>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism
technically, the term for what Hindus believe is called Henotheism.
<snip>
While Hinduism is generally monistic or monotheistic admitting emanating deities, the early Rig Veda (undeveloped early Hinduism) was what Max Muller based his views of henotheism on. In the four Vedas, Muller believed that a striving towards One was being aimed at by the worship of different cosmic principles, such as Agni (fire), Vayu (wind), Indra (rain, thunder, the sky), etc. each of which was variously, by clearly different writers, hailed as supreme in different sections of the books. Indeed, however, what was confusing was an early idea of Rita, or supreme order, that bound all the gods. Other phrases such as Ekam Sat, Vipraha Bahudha Vadanti (Truth is One, though the sages know it as many) led to understandings that the Vedic people admitted to fundamental oneness. From this mix of monism, monotheism and naturalist polytheism Max Muller decided to name the early Vedic religion henotheistic. </snip>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism
A
Avinash
Guest
Namaskar,
I personally like the idea that the Vedic religion was less of a monotheistic religion and more into worshipping the powers or elements of nature and performing rituals. This would have been the religion brought into India by Caucasian peoples starting at around 5000BC.
The Tantric science was practised among the then indigenous people of India and was not into any kind of external worship but was a practical introspective science.
After the Caucasians entered into India, their religion became more and more influenced by the superior Tantra. Therefore the later Vedas are influenced by Tantra and the earlier Vedas are not.
Because the Hindu religions and spiritual paths are so varied, I think you cannot speak of one Hindu religion or "Hinduism".
Andrew
I personally like the idea that the Vedic religion was less of a monotheistic religion and more into worshipping the powers or elements of nature and performing rituals. This would have been the religion brought into India by Caucasian peoples starting at around 5000BC.
The Tantric science was practised among the then indigenous people of India and was not into any kind of external worship but was a practical introspective science.
After the Caucasians entered into India, their religion became more and more influenced by the superior Tantra. Therefore the later Vedas are influenced by Tantra and the earlier Vedas are not.
Because the Hindu religions and spiritual paths are so varied, I think you cannot speak of one Hindu religion or "Hinduism".
Andrew
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste Andrew,Andreas said:
thank you for the post.
indeed... Hindu and Hinduism are western words that the colonial powers used to desribe the varying practices of the Santana Dharma.
usually... i find that the term Hindu is at least sufficient to begin a conversation in this area... should the poster be learned in this area, i refer to it as Santana Dharma.
some thoughts
How did you glue those fantastic images ?
The problem with Hindu scriptures is there's so much characters and myth that is almost imposible to check 1% real history from legend. So, I try not to think too much in their 330 millions gods, but in the main 3. Brahma was probably Abraham (inverted homophonous) and the story about Sara being his halfsister wife is echoed in Hindu myths. V-Ish Nu means "man of rest" exactly the same meaning of Hebrew Noah or Nu but with the adding of V. One of his encarnations was Krishna (his followers grab to the particular scripture and prefer not to give attention to the rest to fit better!). Other encarnation was A FISH surviving the Deluge. Krishna lived in the times of giants which is an echo of the giants all over the world before and after the Deluge. Krishna was not beautifully blue as painted by his followers with pale skin at the back of the hand, in India was depicted BLACK as one of his other names Syama suggests. He was the avatar of Vishnu. So, if Vishnu was Noah, that means REALLY Krishna was no re-encarnation but a descent form Noah. This fits with Cush (meaning "black") or perhaps his son Nimrod. He wanted to portray hmself as a heroe like Genesis indicate. Nimrod was a hunter using arrows and bows which reminds us Krishna as a warrior. The resemblance with Christ is because thousands of years before Christ the bad lineage wanted to confuse the whole thing, to deviate attention from one lineage which wasn't Ham's but Shem's. In other parts of the world , like in Egypt , the name changed. Abraham was the father of Hurrites. They were the ones who later on went to India.The very Hindu scriptures mention the white race and heroes were first.
Krishna's other name Syama means "black" or "black cloud" and Nimrod was Noah's greatgrandson, V-Ish-Nu's "avatar".
Yet arouses another question but doesn't belong here. Was Abraham a Semitic person?
http://davidicke.www.50megs.com/icke/magazine/vol7/desbr.html
On the other hand Buddah never talked about God nad after his death became part of trinity Trikaya!!!
How did you glue those fantastic images ?
The problem with Hindu scriptures is there's so much characters and myth that is almost imposible to check 1% real history from legend. So, I try not to think too much in their 330 millions gods, but in the main 3. Brahma was probably Abraham (inverted homophonous) and the story about Sara being his halfsister wife is echoed in Hindu myths. V-Ish Nu means "man of rest" exactly the same meaning of Hebrew Noah or Nu but with the adding of V. One of his encarnations was Krishna (his followers grab to the particular scripture and prefer not to give attention to the rest to fit better!). Other encarnation was A FISH surviving the Deluge. Krishna lived in the times of giants which is an echo of the giants all over the world before and after the Deluge. Krishna was not beautifully blue as painted by his followers with pale skin at the back of the hand, in India was depicted BLACK as one of his other names Syama suggests. He was the avatar of Vishnu. So, if Vishnu was Noah, that means REALLY Krishna was no re-encarnation but a descent form Noah. This fits with Cush (meaning "black") or perhaps his son Nimrod. He wanted to portray hmself as a heroe like Genesis indicate. Nimrod was a hunter using arrows and bows which reminds us Krishna as a warrior. The resemblance with Christ is because thousands of years before Christ the bad lineage wanted to confuse the whole thing, to deviate attention from one lineage which wasn't Ham's but Shem's. In other parts of the world , like in Egypt , the name changed. Abraham was the father of Hurrites. They were the ones who later on went to India.The very Hindu scriptures mention the white race and heroes were first.
Krishna's other name Syama means "black" or "black cloud" and Nimrod was Noah's greatgrandson, V-Ish-Nu's "avatar".
Yet arouses another question but doesn't belong here. Was Abraham a Semitic person?
http://davidicke.www.50megs.com/icke/magazine/vol7/desbr.html
On the other hand Buddah never talked about God nad after his death became part of trinity Trikaya!!!
Pathless
Fiercely Interdependent
Hm. "Bad lineage?" What are you getting at? I don't think I understand what you are trying to say, although it seems to me that you want to superimpose Christian or Semitic characters over Indian ones.oscar said:
This is quite curious, since Brahma is usually used to refer to something formless and indescribable, while Abraham was a man.
No, I don't want to superimpose. I just shared some interesting details like Brahma connection with a lamb (Abraham's sacrifice replacing Isaac), the fact Brahma married his sister-wife like Abraham did with Sara, the myths about Abraham & Nimrod and all that I wrote that it's unnecesary to repeat. In fact, the last post I did was mentioning the probable cultural root Abraham inherited. Brahma -in spite of being the Creator- has a unique temple in all India, a country worshipping millions of gods and that's odd. The very representation of him (as the rest of gods, semigods and demons) in human or hybrid animal representations has some truth hidden. I believe the interpretation we have given to all those gods as mere images or subconscious "archetypes" have deceived us. Jung, much wiser than his teacher Freud, only recognized the importance of those "symbols" but the fact is the explanation of using beings with 4 faces in a single head (something Hare Krishna can't do in their books cos the simple reason is imposible to describe hyperdimensional entities in a 2Dimensional flat paper) requires a serious debate of hyperphysics. In that sense nor even Picasso's Cubism or Dali's Surrealism would enable us to imagine the thing but perhaps Francis Picabia's Dadaism. The fact is not only in India but all over the world the ancient people worshipped a mixture of animals and human beings and with special relevance to felines, birds, bulls and half man creatures...not only normal animal creatures were chosen. For the same onthogenetic or universal memory teenagers now are enchanted by Power Rangers who eventually become into "Transformers" a bit like Mortal Combat, Thundercats, etc. Meanwhile the experts in genetic are introducing transgenic animal DNA in human beings (something forbidden by Torah Jewish law probably for very good reasons I don't need to mention in this issue).
The way to represent that invisible reality (like Tesseracts of the film Hypercubus 2) or Pandora's Cenobite box, Aladin's lamp for "djiings" and the same dungeons we have heard in myths all over the world (when the legend is universal may hide some truth) was solved by ancient people doing 3Dimensional images in the form of statues like sphinxes, winged bulls, eagles with human bodies, etc, etc.
It's interesting the fact people who are not squizophrenic have had odd experiences in old monoliths or ancient temples dealing with these invisible creatures trapped like Titans in stone or Tartarous cages:
www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magazine/articles/marcahuasi/marcahuasi.html
I know the place mentioned in the site. I interviewed people who are not crazy who have also shared these experiences. I can be skeptical but when numerous cases went on and on all over the world I don't wanna step the thin line of cynicism. If that is truth, it's important to think why Dr. Dan Burissch who is Ph.D. in Molecular Biology and Biological Systems would expose himself to ridiculous and his prestige to make an statement about "Ganesh particle" and experiences with quartz that allow the coming of "cherubs" of red eyes!!!:
www.cyberspaceorbit.com/kerub.htm
http://soder.ath.cx/Burisch/billh/ganesh.htm
I have to say I interviewed people who are professionals in psiquiatry and psicology who have experiences same strange happenings or have heard the experiences of their patients. Since there's no machine to duplicate oniric experience of the amnesic dreams in labs, I don't think science can actually demonstrate this as we can't show evidence of gravitons either. Yet do we have to disregard the idea? Absence of evidence is not evidence of abscense. Hence, this episodes enter into another field of parapsicology and metaphysics.
But even to discuss about those things we need to know something of physics and biology. So allow me to bother you a bit more.
The way to represent that invisible reality (like Tesseracts of the film Hypercubus 2) or Pandora's Cenobite box, Aladin's lamp for "djiings" and the same dungeons we have heard in myths all over the world (when the legend is universal may hide some truth) was solved by ancient people doing 3Dimensional images in the form of statues like sphinxes, winged bulls, eagles with human bodies, etc, etc.
It's interesting the fact people who are not squizophrenic have had odd experiences in old monoliths or ancient temples dealing with these invisible creatures trapped like Titans in stone or Tartarous cages:
www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magazine/articles/marcahuasi/marcahuasi.html
I know the place mentioned in the site. I interviewed people who are not crazy who have also shared these experiences. I can be skeptical but when numerous cases went on and on all over the world I don't wanna step the thin line of cynicism. If that is truth, it's important to think why Dr. Dan Burissch who is Ph.D. in Molecular Biology and Biological Systems would expose himself to ridiculous and his prestige to make an statement about "Ganesh particle" and experiences with quartz that allow the coming of "cherubs" of red eyes!!!:
www.cyberspaceorbit.com/kerub.htm
http://soder.ath.cx/Burisch/billh/ganesh.htm
I have to say I interviewed people who are professionals in psiquiatry and psicology who have experiences same strange happenings or have heard the experiences of their patients. Since there's no machine to duplicate oniric experience of the amnesic dreams in labs, I don't think science can actually demonstrate this as we can't show evidence of gravitons either.
Yet do we have to disregard the idea? Absence of evidence is not evidence of abscense. Hence, this episodes enter into another field of parapsicology and metaphysics.But even to discuss about those things we need to know something of physics and biology. So allow me to bother you a bit more.
A
Avinash
Guest
oscar said:
Yes, that same problem goes for Christianity where myths and facts are also mixed up in the scriptures.
Andrew
Andreas: Unfortunately I'm writing here about Hinduism. I agree with you the Biblical manuscripts have passed for many hands and there's misunderstanding. Yet if you want to open a thread about what you consider Biblical myths I would gladly follow with attention and share my visions with men of good will and open minds. I believe there's too much criticism but lack of knowledge. I also believe it's much difficult to follow the trail of archeology finding some historical evidence backing up things from India's scriptures than Israel, Sumeria, Egypt, etc. Sometimes pagan accounts confirming what the Bible was saying, sometimes archeology discovering names that only existed previously written in the Bible. So this really demands an extended and detailed conversation in every possible angle and story.I'm prepared to discuss those items and others if you wish.
Yet, it doesn't mean there aren't truths hidden in India's account. It was discovered in Mohenho Dahro evidence of events pretty similar to Sodoma & Gomorrah episodes and it was fantastic to discover the (I think Mahabaratta) description of people who were burned by the gods' weapons were holding hands together exactly as the archeological evidence demonstrated.
I'm well aware scientists like Nikolai Tesla and even Oppenheimer studied Hinduism to arrive fantastic conclusions:
www.atributetohinduism.com/quotes321_340.htm
Yet, it doesn't mean there aren't truths hidden in India's account. It was discovered in Mohenho Dahro evidence of events pretty similar to Sodoma & Gomorrah episodes and it was fantastic to discover the (I think Mahabaratta) description of people who were burned by the gods' weapons were holding hands together exactly as the archeological evidence demonstrated.
I'm well aware scientists like Nikolai Tesla and even Oppenheimer studied Hinduism to arrive fantastic conclusions:
www.atributetohinduism.com/quotes321_340.htm
A
Avinash
Guest
Mythmaking
I didn't make this remark to start a new topic. I merely wanted to suggest that mythmaking was part of human culture for many thousands of years and that you can find it outside the Indian subcontinent as well.
Andrew
oscar said:
I didn't make this remark to start a new topic. I merely wanted to suggest that mythmaking was part of human culture for many thousands of years and that you can find it outside the Indian subcontinent as well.
Andrew
Brian I have read before writing anything here what forum requires or solicites from me. Nowhere it says that I can't post information although massive in order to let the readers decide after. It took a lot of effort to search that and you just wiped it off!!!!! Why? Did I offended you? The same happened in the issue Judaism where I set another link (and this forum allowed other readers to set them) and you again without warning me you don't want that just erased it. Wouldn't it be kind to say first what you want in order to follow your instructions rather than erase what it cost t write ?
BTW I noticed that you erased precisely the information about MARS possible evidence of life and due to other comment you did in this forum I perceive you disagree and that's the reason you erase it.Isn't this a religious discussion? So why erase something that could link religion with science unless you have an alerady stablished point of view of what aspect of science do we have to believe? I don't understand why you erased those things. Can you explain ?