Lucifer, Satan, Devil

Manji2012

Manji2012

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First of all, I take a Michael Tsarion, Jordan Maxwell, and probably William Bramley's perspective of the Adam&Eve story and Eden. What Jews call Anakim or Nephilim I simply take a Zacharia Sitchin's perspective of what the Sumerians call Annunaki, (Those from heaven to earth came). To me, the chariots of Fire, or God's chariots, and divine vehicles are just the UFOs we see in modern times, that humans have seen in the Renaissance and very ancient periods of human history. I think when religious texts refer to what me understand to be angels to me, I just simply interpret it as interaction with Aliens or extra dimensional intelligences. So my view, I know, if very heretical but it is the one that sits well with me for now.

What I want to know though is,

What is the satan to Judaism? In the Book of Job there is an incident where
God Lets Lucifer have a hand on a husband and father. I forgot the name.
What entity was that?

Does Judaism have a story about an angel in heaven that rebels against God and wars in heaven? Just what is the Jewish perspective of the matter?
 
Manji2012 said:
I just simply interpret it as interaction with Aliens or extra dimensional intelligences. So my view, I know, if very heretical but it is the one that sits well with me for now.
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Hey why does it always have to be extraterrestials? God and the angels are just aliens? I hear this over and over again.:)

Would you not think that such beings could come from another plane of existence? Hey, the extraordinary doesn't have to come from this universe, another planet or galaxy.

You're not thinking fourth dimensionally. You're not making full use of all the degrees of freedom.:D
 
In Judaism ha-satan is a type of prosecutor in cahoots with G!d. He runs sting operations to test people. He's also sometimes identified with the yetzer hara which is basically the base drives in the individual. They are only actually evil when we let them be the driver. But they are also necessary and can be used for good. In other words, he's a good guy who gets a job humans might at times find less pleasant.

Lucifer is not identified with any type of supernatural entity in Judaism, nor is he identified with HaSatan, only with the babylonian king as the context suggests the title should be associated.
 
It should also be noted that ha-Nashach, the snake character in the Garden of Eden, is not identified either with Satan (the "prosecutor") or with Lucifer (the planet Venus, and metaphorically some kings being denounced). The Christian devil balls all of these together, along with bits of Ahriman (a Persian figure, primordial Evil conceived as partially or totally independent from God) and in medieval times the Horned God (a European deity who is not in the scriptures at all, and had nothing evil about him as the pagans conceived him).
 
Sometimes, however, the snake is identified with the yetzer hara.
 
Leo,

in my post above I described it briefly:

In Judaism ha-satan is a type of prosecutor in cahoots with G!d. He runs sting operations to test people. He's also sometimes identified with the yetzer hara which is basically the base drives in the individual. They are only actually evil when we let them be the driver. But they are also necessary and can be used for good. In other words, he's a good guy who gets a job humans might at times find less pleasant.
Click to expand...

A translation of yetzer hara would be the evil inclination which stands in contrast to the yetzer hatov or the good inclination, which is our ability to resist our base drives and/or channel them as the situation requires.
 
Saltmeister said:
Hey why does it always have to be extraterrestials? God and the angels are just aliens? I hear this over and over again.:)

Would you not think that such beings could come from another plane of existence? Hey, the extraordinary doesn't have to come from this universe, another planet or galaxy.

You're not thinking fourth dimensionally. You're not making full use of all the degrees of freedom.:D
Click to expand...

Well, actually Michael Tsarion has this concept of these other dimensional beings that he called the macrobes.

So, yes, I can think fourth and fifth dimension.

Even in Buddhism there is talk of heavenly worlds with beings and Buddha goes there to enlighten those beings so can attain nibbana. Apparently we can also achieve rebirth in those dimensions.

Astral projection in Gnosticism has a meditation technique to have an outer body experience.

I think there are forms of yoga that teach science of how to attain a body in those dimensions. a light body or something like that.

So, to think with other dimension is no problem with me.
 
dauer said:
In Judaism ha-satan is a type of prosecutor in cahoots with G!d. He runs sting operations to test people. He's also sometimes identified with the yetzer hara which is basically the base drives in the individual. They are only actually evil when we let them be the driver. But they are also necessary and can be used for good. In other words, he's a good guy who gets a job humans might at times find less pleasant.

Lucifer is not identified with any type of supernatural entity in Judaism, nor is he identified with HaSatan, only with the babylonian king as the context suggests the title should be associated.
Click to expand...

Sorta reminds me of Mara in Buddhism. It is this sort of psychological aspect in us.

I mean, in the story of the Buddha he is confronted by Mara and tempted by Mara.

I also think Mara can be considered the illusion of ego.

I guess what confronted Jesus in the new testament was the same thing but of course Christians would disagree with that.

I just wonder where does this story I grew up with hearing how Lucifer was this angel of light and God made humanity and Lucifer refused to prostrate himself, I guess it all comes from John Milton huh.

I mean, what scriptures are Christians quoting from? Does Judaism have this story in their scriptures, of this war in heaven? I am gonna post a thread in the Christian forum to see what kind of answers I will get.

To me, I once again take a Michael Tsarion view of what is the war in heaven about. When we here this story in texts of the Inqas and Mayans, or in the Mahabharata, it is basically talking about how Lemuria and Atlantis had a great big war that destroyed many things.

The devil chained to the earth. Cast out of heaven to earth. Basically, there is a star gate around us and the fallen ones can not leave.

But hey, that is just me. I want to hear the orthodox view.
 
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