nativeastral
fluffy future
there was always religion if it could be defined as belief in powers beyond human control
must religion come to an end?
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there was always religion if it could be defined as belief in powers beyond human control
T
Tao_Equus
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Easy to stick on the end of a post without any qualification. But still utterly meaningless.
And working out our relationship to that. Astute observation! I can imagine religion dissolving into "science" and vice versa in the future only to the degree that consciousness as both a tool of science and as its field of study are accepted fact. earl
nativeastral
fluffy future
have you came across any interesting articles exploring this?
Dream
Well-Known Member
Beavers
Just as beavers have to chip wood to keep their teeth trimmed, so we can never stop institutionalizing. We are all like beavers who make dams. The fish we eat make our beaver teeth grow, and we continue in the service of our dams. When new, a dam institution's objective is to dispel ignorance, to help us get along etc. When a dam stops doing that, we start to move out of it. Then it falls into disrepair and disappears like Egypt's city of Tannis. A dam that falls into disuse falls into disrepair. The beavers move on.
Just as beavers have to chip wood to keep their teeth trimmed, so we can never stop institutionalizing. We are all like beavers who make dams. The fish we eat make our beaver teeth grow, and we continue in the service of our dams. When new, a dam institution's objective is to dispel ignorance, to help us get along etc. When a dam stops doing that, we start to move out of it. Then it falls into disrepair and disappears like Egypt's city of Tannis. A dam that falls into disuse falls into disrepair. The beavers move on.
Netti-Netti
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Science is highly specialized and only in instances where it leads to technological development does it have much relevance to human experience.
Netti-Netti
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If you don't know what the questions were, then how can you take a position on the meaning of the findings regarding how people answered the questions?
Could this strong conclusion reflects your lack of understanding of the survey?
Only relevance would be in the "science" of consciousness and transpersonal psychology. But, unlike Tao, I actually do not really see science ever sufficiently filling the need humanity has to understand transcendent experiences. earl
T
Tao_Equus
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tran⋅scend⋅ent
/trænˈsɛn
Show Spelled [tran-sen-duh
Show IPA –adjective 1.going beyond ordinary limits; surpassing; exceeding.
2.superior or supreme.
3.Theology. (of the Deity) transcending the universe, time, etc. Compare immanent (def. 3).
4.Philosophy. a.Scholasticism. above all possible modes of the infinite.
b.Kantianism. transcending experience; not realizable in human experience. Compare transcendental (defs. 5a, c).
c.(in modern realism) referred to, but beyond, direct apprehension; outside consciousness.
Check out the bold. You want to believe that you can know the truth of that which by its very definition is beyond human ability to comprehend. Science can be used to ask any and every question humanity can conceive. But it does not pretend to know the truth when it does not and cannot. There is a big difference between studying and developing a theory on a question than creating an absolute conviction based on paltry and highly questionable evidence. My faith in science is that it is the best method to ask questions and seek answers. I do not bother with questions that by definition are beyond answering. And I most certainly do not have a certainty that I know, "because I feel it is right", what is beyond human comprehension.
17th Angel
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I just wonder.... How long it can go on, until people see it's just another bunch of Mars's, Vulcans', Chantico's, Nike's, Janus's, Ehecatl's, Herme's, The Titan's, Jupiter's, Centeotl's, Ares's, Poseidon's, Chalchiuhtlicue's and Zeus's you know... It goes on... lol...
It's been like thousands of years since christ went and said he was coming back.. *gingerly looks at his watch* :S
The jews are still waiting for their messiah.... *gingerly looks at his watch* :S
The Muslims Judgement day is coming right!.... Soon.... *gingerly looks at his watch* :S
How long does it have to go on? Or is this something that escaped pandora's box? (Hope)
It's been like thousands of years since christ went and said he was coming back.. *gingerly looks at his watch* :S
The jews are still waiting for their messiah.... *gingerly looks at his watch* :S
The Muslims Judgement day is coming right!.... Soon.... *gingerly looks at his watch* :S
How long does it have to go on? Or is this something that escaped pandora's box? (Hope)
T
Tao_Equus
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And, so the scriptures go, there is at least one person still alive that saw Christ the first time round... seen any 2000 year old people around anyone?
17th Angel
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If there are.... They are looking freaking awesome for their age. The years have been kind.
the myths will always have value.
17th Angel
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For Morales and entertainment(films games) and studying history...... But, I don't see any other value.
Tao, by transcendent experiences, I meant those that transcend typical egoic experiences. As to knowing "Truth," no human-mediated thought structure-science or religion-guarantees one has found ultimate "Truth," given that the human mind is delimited and all experiences through it conditioned by the mind of the experiencer and/or their assumptions, including those of a scientific bent. earltran⋅scend⋅ent
dənt/nt]
–adjective 1.going beyond ordinary limits; surpassing; exceeding.
2.superior or supreme.
3.Theology. (of the Deity) transcending the universe, time, etc. Compare immanent (def. 3).
4.Philosophy. a.Scholasticism. above all possible modes of the infinite.
b.Kantianism. transcending experience; not realizable in human experience. Compare transcendental (defs. 5a, c).
c.(in modern realism) referred to, but beyond, direct apprehension; outside consciousness.
Check out the bold. You want to believe that you can know the truth of that which by its very definition is beyond human ability to comprehend. Science can be used to ask any and every question humanity can conceive. But it does not pretend to know the truth when it does not and cannot. There is a big difference between studying and developing a theory on a question than creating an absolute conviction based on paltry and highly questionable evidence. My faith in science is that it is the best method to ask questions and seek answers. I do not bother with questions that by definition are beyond answering. And I most certainly do not have a certainty that I know, "because I feel it is right", what is beyond human comprehension.
T
Tao_Equus
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What on earth or beyond is a "typical egoic experience"?
Egoic experience is our everyday consciousness where we walk around with a seemingly firm conviction and perception that things are only what they seem: there is a set "me" with set attributes entirely separate from other "set things" outside of me. Transegoic experiences are those, however fleeting, moments when that firm sense of "reality" is broken through to a much more fluid and unitive sense of things. Bliss out man.
earl
earl
T
Tao_Equus
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Egoic experience is our everyday consciousness where we walk around with a seemingly firm conviction and perception that things are only what they seem: there is a set "me" with set attributes entirely separate from other "set things" outside of me. Transegoic experiences are those, however fleeting, moments when that firm sense of "reality" is broken through to a much more fluid and unitive sense of things. Bliss out man.
Ahhhhhh !! I think I know what you mean. Hallucinogens give you the latter on demand. Probably why early religions used them so much.