They are still teaching the Aryan race/invasion misconception in universities

sam1008 said:
The idea of there even being an aryan race let alone an invasion has been well and truly discredited. Yet it still gets taught to Religious Studies students in universities. Someone needs to take it upon themselves to inform all the relevant lecturers throughout the world.
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which uni's teach it as fact v. myth?
 
Aryan means 'noble', due to some Eurocentric misconceptions the notion of the Aryans being a distinct Indo-European race who invaded India a few thousand years ago bringing Vedic civilisation with them was invented in the Nineteenth century and became the accepted academic dogma which famously Hitler adopted to assert German supremacy.

I was taught the invasion theory at my uni - although the possibilty of the Aryans already being in India was mentioned - the fact that there is no such thing as an Aryan race was not, and I've come across students in forums admittedly a few years back recanting the invasion theory as if it were gospel.
 
The trouble is, the whole issue has become a political one. There's a serious surge in nationalism in India, and now a lot of things are being rooted and contested not on evidence, but national pride. And one of these core issues is that there's no way Hindu Nationalists can accept the country and people could have had any kind of outside influence at the outset.

I've seen a lot of subtle things come up - more recently, I read a claim stating that calculus originated not from Isaac Newton but from India, because some obscure Indian mathematician no one really read once wrote something that might have been similar to calculus - and then argued that clever Jesuit Missionaries read the theory in India and took it back to Isaac Newton.

In such instances, it's worth checking sources, and in that case while it's definitely worth accepting there is a debate, there's no reason to accede to arrogant Hindu Nationalism on the grounds that politics should define history.

2c. :)
 
ADDED: Hindu Nationalism argues that the Aryan invasion theory is based on a complete dismissal of Indian culture and philosophy, and that the West is somehow utterly biased against India and instead pro-biased for Iranian peoples - which is whom the Aryans were.

However, these nationalists are arguing against points maybe raised 150 years ago which I don't believe have any accepted place in modern scholarship. What instead we have are things such as archaeological remains of the so-called Indus-valley people, and strong parallels between context of the oldest Vedas (especially regarding Agni) and already documented fire-worship across Mesopotamia, which suggest that a migration certainly could have taken place from West to East at the foundations of Indian culture.
 
Aryan means noble theres no such thing as an Aryan race. Aryans included many races. The refutation of the Aryan race theory is not a new Indian nationalist thing it was refuted in the west when it was created and also by Aurobindho and others.

There is certainly a parallel between ancient Persian culture and Indian but this doesn't suggest migration one way of the other just a culture that covered the whole area.

The foundations of Indian culture go a lot further back than the Indogolists proposed.

Surely the evidence of Indian scripture which suggests Vedic culture has been present in India for many many millenia is worth something in itself.

I can't be bothered to research the issue. The burden of proof should lie with the Western scholars who wish to discredit Indian culture with their modern theories.
 
The burden of proof is to simply forward a valid and sustainable theory - and certainly there's a lot of discussion going on which will shape the theory. It's just a shame everything is getting caught up in politics.

As for Aryan people - my impression is that the Aryans were designated as a nomadic group from the Iranian plateau.
 
aryan invasion was made up theary or a propaganda by british intelectual. As we have seen british spreading propaganda in colonial countries this include africa too. They have always looked for inferiority in colonial culture religion ,education and social matters. But british had hard time dealing with hindus who were proud of themself . there is no need for an indian to find out weather aryan invasion is a propaganda or a true litereature.

In africa it works even now african would pay 200 dollar for a generic pill where as they can get it for 20 cents from india. American pharmaceutical gaints always laughed at indian pharmaceutical qualities. this is just one example. This is not the case in africa any longer africans smarten up and started doing business with india or china now. Even now in the modern information age people can be cheated and manipulated. But sure cheaters and manipulators have hard time now. so mr brayan keep on doing reasearch and make sure do a lot of research and claim your poit of view( pov). you are welcome to give a try
 
The aryan invasion theory is not linked with the caste system. If you see the ancient Hindu scriptures Ramayana and Mahabharatha, you can see the principal characters Rama, Krishna,Drona, Abhimanyu, Draupadi, Nakula ,Damayanti all described as being black-skinned, which is not at all compatible with the blonde, blue-eyed Hitleric Aryan type. The caste system evolved later on, after the vedic period. The best description of the caste system is shown by the teachings of Paramahamsa Yogananda, who is famous as the author of the 'Autobiography of a Yogi ' ..... "These were (originally) symbolic designations of the stages of spiritual refinement. They were not intended as social categories. And they were not intended to be hereditary. Things changed as the yugas [cycles of time] descended toward mental darkness. People in the higher castes wanted to make sure their children were accepted as members of their own caste. Thus, ego-identification caused them to freeze the ancient classifications into what is called the ‘caste system.’ Such was not the original intention. In obvious fact, however, the offspring of a brahmin may be a sudra by nature. And a peasant, sometimes, is a real saint.”" —from Conversations with Yogananda, Crystal Clarity Publishers, 2003.
 
vikramaditya said:
The aryan invasion theory is not linked with the caste system. If you see the ancient Hindu scriptures Ramayana and Mahabharatha, you can see the principal characters Rama, Krishna,Drona, Abhimanyu, Draupadi, Nakula ,Damayanti all described as being black-skinned, which is not at all compatible with the blonde, blue-eyed Hitleric Aryan type. The caste system evolved later on, after the vedic period. The best description of the caste system is shown by the teachings of Paramahamsa Yogananda, who is famous as the author of the 'Autobiography of a Yogi ' ..... "These were (originally) symbolic designations of the stages of spiritual refinement. They were not intended as social categories. And they were not intended to be hereditary. Things changed as the yugas [cycles of time] descended toward mental darkness. People in the higher castes wanted to make sure their children were accepted as members of their own caste. Thus, ego-identification caused them to freeze the ancient classifications into what is called the ‘caste system.’ Such was not the original intention. In obvious fact, however, the offspring of a brahmin may be a sudra by nature. And a peasant, sometimes, is a real saint.”" —from Conversations with Yogananda, Crystal Clarity Publishers, 2003.
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Welcome to IO, vikramaditya. :)
Would you say that the making of the caste system hereditary would be a good example of spiritual materialism on a collective scale?
 
vikramaditya said:
all described as being black-skinned, which is not at all compatible with the blonde, blue-eyed Hitleric Aryan type.
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Indeed - the Aryan people of the Iranian plateau have nothing to do with the "Aryan race" of the Nazi's. The two are completely different concepts.

Funnily enough, I seem to recall something in the Mahabharata where Krishna berates Arjun for being "un-Aryan" in his thinking. I presumed this was a reference to venerated ancestors - ie, of the region - and nothing to do with Caucasian looks.
 
In the teaching of Root Races, subraces, branch races and so forth (which Anthroposophists speak of as Cultural Epochs), the ARYAN are very much one of the seven main offshoots or groups of Humanity ... though if you understand this doctrine then you realize that they are not linear, or purely sequential, as such.

The Aryan (race of "nobles") is supposed to have begun about a million years ago, even as the Atlantean had begun its decline. The current state of evolution has brought us to, and mostly through, the 5th subrace of the Aryan ... and the 6th subrace has begun. Over the course of hundreds, even thousands of years, the 6th Root Race will emerge from the 6th subrace of the Aryan - 5th Root Race.

So, there are thousands of years left for the Aryan Race to run its course (which includes 2 additional subraces, 7 total), just as the Atlanteans continued for hundreds of thousands of years after the Aryan had begun. This, and it is clarified in the esoteric teachings that the Lemurian and Atlantean Races might even be said to survive to this day ... though there are no such things as pure Lemurians, or even pure-blooded Atlanteans.

Darker skinned, or "negroid" peoples belong to the former group, the Asian peoples belong to the Atlantean, and from the "Hindu" or Indic peoples we have the root stock of the Aryan -- the 1st subrace, with the other 4 subraces having evolved over the past few tens of thousands of years.

Teaching this would -- and eventually will -- clarify for people, from the age of young children all the way through the most advanced of esoteric students, just why it is that there are so many variations in human appearance. To refute the doctrine of Root Races, subraces, etc., on the other hand, is not only ridiculous ... it is impossible. You simply cannot look at the different groupings of the ONE Humanity, and suggest that there are not differences, or that "we are all the same."

We belong to ONE great human "family," yes, but there are racial distinctions which are mostly attributable to when a particular set of characteristics began to become dominant among some other, larger grouping of peoples. The explanation for this will one day be understood as a type of what now we might call `Divine Intervention,' wherein the Manu (such as a Noah, or Xisuthrus, or Deucalion) of a Race descends and incarnates within the form ... in order to bring about the next phase of evolution according to a Divine Plan.

Strange, how so many people act upon a gut-level reaction -- as if to dispute the very notion that God indeed has a Plan ... for Spiritual, as well as material, Evolution. If the real argument is that the above doctrine sounds like some kind of justification for ideas of "racial superiority," then hold your tongue before you reveal your own prejudices. If such were true, FRANCIS, then you wouldn't have men like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. taking incarnation ... showing folks (like the Brits, and the racist Americans of the deep/rural South -- and elsewhere) just what God meant by "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, as your self."

Hmmm, Gandhi was an Aryan ... and belonged to a subrace FOUR (or at least three) removes from my own. Was HE therefore less evolved spiritually for that fact? Wow, I'd never thought of it that way ... but then, perhaps that's because I have a clue regarding the doctrine of Root Races and subraces.

Folks, the ancient doctrine of Yugas, and of cyclical evolution, has much to teach us regarding just WHY it is that Humanity goes through the various changes that it does -- both in terms of its material or outward appearance, as well as pertaining to spiritual, or interior/psychic development. Try STUDYING something, before you blurt out your reservations and accusations.

For clarity's sake, pasty-white American or European people, such as myself, have much more in common speaking in terms of racial grouping with a dark-skinned HINDU (Indo-Aryan) of the 1st Aryan subrace ... than we do with the lightest-skinned person of Asian background. Funny, I have never really even questioned this (!), but then, I've never really thought it all that important to set myself apart from some particular group within Humanity ... except perhaps in terms of behavior, or maybe philosophy.

If you want to base your racial-supremacist ideas upon Gospel teaching, then whose fault is that? People used to don their white-hooded robes and threaten or lynch black folks here in the American South, all supposedly because it was the "Christian" thing to do. Gee, I've never made that connection. Just because they thump their Bibles on Sunday the same as many of our contributors here at Interfaith, does that make them RIGHT? Are they justified in their actions? Damn, I'd never considered it in the least.

So let's stop trying to pass the buck, or conflate the facts, when it comes to what the Nazis did to doctrines which have been around for tens of thousands of years, okay? Go vent somewhere else, if what you're really p.o.'d about is just how terribly some human beings treat each other -- and the fact that many people can't see past each other's SKIN, or outer appearance, facial characteristics, religious preference, etc., as some kind of bass-ackwards basis for this descrimination.

I can see the 1st subrace Aryans (as well as the four subraces that follow) as a simple reality. I am somewhat familiar with the history of European conquests, and invasions, and kings'n'battles, but I don't claim at all to be an expert on this stuff. What I do know, is that we need to look at histories that go back tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of years ... and IF we can do that, we're at least in the same ballpark.

But so long as people keep whistlin' Dixie with lyrics like, "Oh there was no Atlantis," you're gonna have to listen to my, "His TRUTH is marching on!"

Glory, Glory ...
 
seattlegal said:
Welcome to IO, vikramaditya. :)


Thank you,seattlegal.:)

seattlegal said:
Would you say that the making of the caste system hereditary would be a good example of spiritual materialism on a collective scale?
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The making of the caste system hereditary is pure materialism itself, without any spirituality in it.

It was mainly a feudal structure that evolved with time,like those in other countries for social, economic and political purposes.

It should be understood that the majority of the rishis who created and developed the Vedas themselves belonged to the lower castes or social groups.

In many areas, many lower castes themselves were lifted to the higher castes and made into brahmins and kshatriyas by the sannyasins like ramanuja ( the expounder of the vishistadvaita philosophy ) and shankaracharya ( the expounder of advaita vedanta philosophy).
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I said:
Indeed - the Aryan people of the Iranian plateau have nothing to do with the "Aryan race" of the Nazi's. The two are completely different concepts.
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Namaste Brian. Yes, the Arya of Hinduism,Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism, the indigenous dharmic religions of India,has nothing to do with Hitlers "aryan race" ,which is mainly concerned with blonde hair, blue eyes and other superficialities.

The Indian Arya stands for the person of wisdom and culture and gentlemanliness, and manifests the qualities of compassion, non-violence,unconditional love and adherence to truth and justice.

The Rishis, Krishna, Buddha,Mahavira, Guru Nanak , Guru Gobind Singh, Mahatma Gandhi , Aurobindo can be termed as the true aryas.

I said:
Funnily enough, I seem to recall something in the Mahabharata where Krishna berates Arjun for being "un-Aryan" in his thinking. I presumed this was a reference to venerated ancestors - ie, of the region - and nothing to do with Caucasian looks.
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Yes, this is in the bhagavad gita. Krishna berates Arjuna for manifesting unaryan charecterestics of delusion, lack of firmness and sense of duty , dharma and justice.

And both Krishna and Arjuna have been themselves mentioned in the mahabharatha and bhagavatham of being of black hue, or dark skin.

It is the intrinsic qualities ,nobility and character that makes the arya,not at all the skin colour or other superficialities which is temporary and not eternal.
 
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