Can a Christian forfeit salvation?

[Xavier Breath]

Many Christian sects observe the so-called "Security of the Believer", while others maintain that to die with unconfessed sin voids the ticket to Heaven. What do you think?
If Salvation is Secure, and cannot be forfeited, what is our incentive to repent and turn from sin? Is it a free ticket to do as we please?
If our sins are forgotten, do we face judgement?

 

[path_of_one]

I believe we are punished by our sins, not because of them. That is, we reap the consequences of what we sow, in this life or the next. The greatest pain is when we stand before God and realize the horrors of what has happened because of our sins, the pain we have caused to others and to God, who is in all things and feels that pain as well. If we are followers of the Christ, the Light of God dwells in us, and we are saved through God's grace. The reason for this is not simple belief, but rather real inward change, the result of which we repent for our sins now and are spared from experiencing the pain we have caused after our death when the truth is laid bare to all. In essence, we feel the pain our sins cause as we go through life and are able to be buffered from their full force, because we have chosen to tackle them now and cut them out as much as possible.

If we handle our sins during our lifetime, and are truly saved (that is, living as followers of the Christ), then we naturally increasingly desire to do good for others rather than to cause pain, we see our errors more consistently, and we strive to repent. It is not our works that save us, but our works are a natural consequence of our inner focus. You know... where your heart lies, there is your treasure also.

To me, there is no forfeiting salvation, but true salvation comes with inward change, a choice to kindle the flame of the Spirit that is in all people into a roaring fire, refining both our focus and our actions. Without this inward change, salvation and belief are merely empty words. With this inward change, our entire self and reality is altered, and we are never the same. We may stumble, but the constant thirst to be at one with God keeps us striving to become more Christ-like.

I should note that I am not a conservative Christian, so my concept of following Christ is quite different than some might interpret. I am not referring to beliefs or going to church and so forth. I am referring to the spirit of Christ's message and life; the deep meaning behind the gospels. People can come to follow the living Christ through the Bible and Christianity, or inadvertently come to this path through other means (religions, philosophies, simple love for humanity and the earth). It is unconventional, but I really believe that salvation is found in embracing Christ's path, the heart of the Message, not just in joining a certain religious group or praying a prayer. It is a turning toward God's grace, which can appear in any number of forms. But I would put forth that meeting someone who is truly following Christ is distinctive and remarkable, no matter what their outward religious affiliation. You can see God's work in and through them in the fruits of the Spirit, and this is evidence of their inward change.

 

[Saltmeister]

What says the Spirit of the first-century Christian experience? Answering this question using the dogma and logic of 21st century Christians is hardly going to get us far. We need to go back to the first-century experience. Unfortunately, our understanding of such a first-century experience is heavily influenced by doctrine we use in the 21st century, or doctrine formed in the 3rd and 4th century onwards. I would say that such doctrine is unreliable because it was formulated by people who didn't have the 1st century experience, in response to challenges, struggles and politics in the time and place in which they came to being. We need a fresh look at things. Get rid of the historical baggage.

I don't believe people should even make rules like, "unconfessed sin voids the ticket to Heaven" or "Salvation is Secure, and cannot be forfeited." Why should we choose to believe either way? What does yes, and what does no to each of these statements mean to you? Does an answer of yes or no have to apply to all of us? Do the same rules apply to each and every individual?

I question the idea that we should apply the same rules to everyone. One individual believer may say yes, while another will say no. When one says yes, he is only saying yes for himself. If another says no, he says no because he needs to believe that the answer is no. I don't believe the Christian faith was ever meant to create new barriers between Man and God, but rather to open doors -- to open new pathways.

If Jesus or his apostles made statements about what we needed to do, such statements were made in the affirmative in the context in which they were made. They did not negate other paths. They affirmed the sentiments of those who say "yes," but did not negate those who said "no."

Most important is one's relationship with God. Decide first what you need in your relationship with God. Listen to what others say but don't take their views for granted, even if they say, "this is the Christian teaching." That is either their personal opinion, or the personal opinion of their pastor/priest, or dogma that is ingrained in the "collective psyche" of the local congregation, created by generations of contemplation in localised politico-communal struggles.

After you've done this, decide what you think the Spirit says to you personally based on your personal experience and what the New Testament says on the first-century experience and whether you think it is essential that an answer be yes or no based on that experience. Most importantly, do it as an individual. Recognise your own individuality.

A look at Romans 14 might help give further insight into my thinking.

Are you secure? I would say no, but I don't say this as a doctrine. It's more of a qualitative description of what we're dealing with here. I think it's intuitive that the spiritual rebirth in this world, in this life is not complete unless you actually invest time in your own regeneration. Would you get drunk and take drugs soon after getting baptised, thinking you can get away with it?

"Salvation" isn't based on rules. If it were, then yes, no matter what you did you'd be accepted by God. But God doesn't have to honour your belief that you believe you're saved because He isn't following rules. God didn't make a rule for Himself that He had to accept everyone who believes he is saved. No, he made an offer to those who were already rejected and condemned. He offered a Yes to those who wanted a Yes, not a No to people who believed that were given a No.

It's a fact of life that we have to work. Nothing is free, though you can't earn acceptance. God isn't interested in rules. He doesn't want legalistic conformity. He's interested in the "spirit of things." He wants your soul. Give it to Him. Each of us is a temple. We perform rituals every day to express our devotion to God. If we say Yes, then God also says Yes.

It's an Affirmative God who promotes the positive, not the negative.

So the onus is on all of us, regardless of what we believe. Dogma and doctrine doesn't change things. It's us making the right choices and giving our soul for the right purpose.

 

[mee]

Many Christian sects observe the so-called "Security of the Believer", while others maintain that to die with unconfessed sin voids the ticket to Heaven. What do you think?
If Salvation is Secure, and cannot be forfeited, what is our incentive to repent and turn from sin? Is it a free ticket to do as we please?
If our sins are forgotten, do we face judgement?

I would say that Judas started off in the right way , but was influenced by the wicked one and he allowed that to happen, he became out of line with Gods purpose , and that can happen to others too if they have the wrong attitude .

 

[Xavier Breath]

I would say that Judas started off in the right way , but was influenced by the wicked one and he allowed that to happen, he became out of line with Gods purpose , and that can happen to others too if they have the wrong attitude .

So, you would answer that it IS possible to fall far enough away from the right "attitude" to allow your salvation to be forfeited?

I think of Judas as having committed the sin of impatience. He betrayed Jesus (someone had to do this!) but when the enormity of what he had done struck Judas, he took matters into his own hands and tried to make it right by killing himself.
Peter, on the other hand, betrayed Jesus three times, but when the enormity of what he had done struck him, Peter remembered Jesus' instruction to wait, and so he waited in his pain and guilt.
When Christ returned, he asked Peter "Do you love Me?", Peter replied in the affirmative, and Christ said "Feed my sheep." This was repeated for a total of three times.
Would Judas, had he not taken his own life, have been given the same chance at redemption and forgiveness? Is Judas forgiven, and eligible for resurrection? Does suicide disqualify a Christian?

 

[Xavier Breath]

My thanks to both Saltmeister and Path of One for these two insightful, superbly written essays! I will be taking them to my Jail Bible study tonight, in case the inmates have no pressing issues they wish to discuss. These are simply awesome insights!
Thanks too to mee for continuing the thread, and raising some specifics.
Bless you all!

 

[pattimax]

A man woke up one morning, looked in the mirror, and just decided that he just did NOT want to shave anymore. He went to the barber, but learned from his wife Grace that he had taken the day off to go fishing. The barbers wife said that she can shave him. The man agreed and let her do it. When she finished the man asked how much he owed her.
She said twenty dollars. He thought that was pretty steep for a shave but he paid it anyway.

The next day he woke up and found that he didn’t need a shave, or the next day. Weeks went by and he didn’t need a shave. He went to the barber shop and told her, “You did a fantastic job, I haven’t needed a shave ever since.” She said, “Once you’ve been shaved by Grace, you’re always shaved.”

Groan – but hey, it fit!...

Happy New Year! Karen

 

[BlaznFattyz]

no, because if one forfeited salvation, one is not a christian. a christian that believes that christ is his saviour, his lord and his king is saved. no one can snatch him out of gods hand. of course we all sin, but because of the power of gods grace and salvation we are made new. therefore, in the end christians are hidden in christ and are the kingdom of god.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Let me put it like this..

Why would God send His only begotten Son to this horrible place where He was hunted from birth and let Him die in such a horrific manner if one time wouldnt be enough.

His blood covered ALL sins for ALL time

but you have to believe..

all He requires of us.. is Faith.

He died once.. and that was enough. Thank God.

 

[Quahom1]

Many Christian sects observe the so-called "Security of the Believer", while others maintain that to die with unconfessed sin voids the ticket to Heaven. What do you think?
If Salvation is Secure, and cannot be forfeited, what is our incentive to repent and turn from sin? Is it a free ticket to do as we please?
If our sins are forgotten, do we face judgement?

There is a passage in the Bible that warns the one, to know and to give up what is known is death. I don't think that means eternal death, but rather loss of life in the family of God. In short one falls back to being natural man.

Is that eternal? Depends on the human in question...