Thoughts on evolution

[bob x]

Science conclude every time that to start something there has to be a beginning, and mass beginnings have never happened

This is the exact opposite of truth. There is no sharp line between Canis lupus (wolf) and Canis familiaris (dog): the dogs have acquired several genetic changes from the wolves over tens of thousands of years, but not quite enough for reproductive isolation; that would take a hundred thousand years. Similarly there was no sharp line where we could say "Now, in this generation, these are Homo sapiens where the last generation was Homo erectus", nor was there any sharp line marking genus Homo from genus Australopithecus, etc. These changes are an accumulation of multiple genetic alterations over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, within a breeding population that never numbered less than the thousands even during the most severe crashes.

 

[Bishadi]

This is the exact opposite of truth. There is no sharp line between Canis lupus (wolf) and Canis familiaris (dog): the dogs have acquired several genetic changes from the wolves over tens of thousands of years, but not quite enough for reproductive isolation; that would take a hundred thousand years. Similarly there was no sharp line where we could say "Now, in this generation, these are Homo sapiens where the last generation was Homo erectus", nor was there any sharp line marking genus Homo from genus Australopithecus, etc. These changes are an accumulation of multiple genetic alterations over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, within a breeding population that never numbered less than the thousands even during the most severe crashes.

now we have homo sapiens and then we had dinosaur....

shall we assume god put the dinosaur bones in the ground so homo's have a job.

Or shall we assume that any homo that believes creation is true is a dinosaur?

 

[path_of_one]

And what do religions do? Suggest we ‘cannot’ know…….

I'm not religious. And I would posit, having studied religious and social dynamics for some time, that religions actually suggest we can know, then tell us. Hence, all the mythology.

I think we can't "know" the One Divine Being, the source of everything, in the sense that we define it. If anyone ever can prove otherwise, I'll be the first to appreciate it. So far, humans make guesses and base their conceptualization of God on limited and lousy definitions, founded more on the way the human brain works and people's cultural and social structures than anything "out there."

Humanity is still working on defining itself. What it is to be a human, what it is to be a life.

But just because we can't "know" in terms of defining, doesn't mean that we can't "know" in other ways. I would say we can... that is why I'm a mystic.

So which is more limiting: one that pursues truths and often has to get squashed but dusts itself off and continues or the other that simply suggest ‘we cannot understand’?

Understanding is not the essence of spirituality. Experience and growth in love is. Those who are the least limited are those pursuing love. Truth finds them, as their spirit and mind are united and in communion with the divine. As this is the Christian section, I would offer scripture (and can if you wish), but you don't seem to care about it being in the Christian section or give a hoot about scripture, so for now I will save myself the time and not bother.

One has people killing themselves over beliefs, the other is seeking for the benefit of mankind (the inert intent).

Ah, but I seek the benefit of all humanity. The way I work toward this is to spread love. Peace. Forgiveness. Joy. It's simple. I commune with the divine, and then I am able to be a vessel of the divine. God replenishes my spirit and is my comfort, and then I can give comfort to others.

No definitions of any of it are necessary. I just do it. And it works amazingly well.

It is the difference between pursuing knowledge and pursuing love. Knowledge can be a wonderful thing, but without love it is empty.

or simply “

For Edmund Husserl, phenomenology is "the reflective study of the essence of consciousness as experienced from the first-person point of view."[1] Phenomenology takes the intuitive experience of phenomena (what presents itself to us in phenomenological reflexion) as its starting point and tries to extract from it the essential features of experiences and the essence of what we experience.” Sounds like science to me!

Phenomenology is only one methodology that may be used in science, but is more frequently employed elsewhere. Science does not privilege the first person point of view, generally speaking. It privileges experimentation and observation that can be replicated by others. One’s point of view can’t be replicated by others; we are each of us unique.

But then again

What does life mean? Or rather; how can one experience reality in knowing without definitions?

One doesn’t. One experiences reality in being. And therein lies the meaning of life.

A pretty picture a 6 year old might like.

Or a 29-year-old PhD and cultural anthropologist.

But no, I have not lost the child within me. “The kingdom of heaven will belong to such as these.” Children have a lot to teach us, and the love and light of divinity is as accessible to them (if not more so) than it is to adults.

But did you read the sentence; when the word ‘fire’ is suggested……… not many will have the definition you use! You missed the point!

As did you. I’m operating from a cross-cultural, cross-religious, and cross-temporal viewpoint, whereas you are operating from a modern Western-centric one. Which of us is more holistic? More encompassing of the human experience? More founded on social and philosophical data?

Only with truth can equality reign! Meaning for each to comprehend each phenomenon as it truly is without ever returning to a belief or faith of what it is, then each can be equally aware and equally in truth!

I disagree. Only with love can equality reign. In love we see no distinction between ourselves and others; we know ourselves and others as we truly are- One. Because of this, we work for peace and healing. I have a reference for you, if you'd like (a scientific one) that explains why emotion is more important for action (working toward equality, in this case) than is knowledge: Kay Milton's "Loving Nature." It's an ethnography and theoretical treatise on human cognition, emotion, perception, and how all that effects action. Not without some flaws, but they are relatively nit-picky. It's not exactly a beginner's book and might necessitate some more extensive study of the topic from the citations and footnotes, but worth the read if you are really interested in these issues.

Why not just say; I care nothing for others and our tomorrow as long as I can stay high now! You preach as a drug addict would! (religiously faithful)

I’ve never done drugs. I was born a mystic. And I am fortunate, I feel, to be high on the being-ness of life, love, and light. In essence, I exist in a state that is high on God. The kingdom of heaven is among us… within us…

It’s not about religion. I have no “religion.” I’m just a being of energy experiencing the energy, and in that awareness, facilitating the spread of love and joy as much as I can.

While some hallucinogens can open consciousness beyond the normal waking state, I wouldn’t advocate it. It’s dangerous and short-lived. Instead, turning toward cultivating love and communion with divinity is a way toward mysticism that builds and grows over time with no ill effects.

And you think you know ‘why’ as if to talk to the total of existence (god) itself based on the teachings of one sect of faith?

Actually, I have no single religion. Hence, my username.

For myself, I combine Christ’s teachings in the gospel with a Druidic Neo-Pagan path that is earth-based spirituality. I recognize validity and value in all religions and spiritual paths that advocate cultivating love and connectedness among beings. Practically all of them do this. I don’t think it matters what faith a person is. What matters is one’s intent and love in the journey.

I never said what the answer to the “why” is. I said the important question is the “why” and not the “how.”

Yet to comprehend ‘how’ life exists and how each choice offers the ever lasting life, then ‘why’ simply reveals itself; to continue. See anything in nature to realize such a simple item.

I disagree. It is one’s intent that illumines (or not) the why. There is no one correct methodology.

Problem is people want grandeur that faith places into the context of life.

I have no idea what you mean here. What grandeur? In sentiment? I tend to find that life has grandeur on its own. Faith springs from life for me.

We are in ‘heaven’ as it is when mass has the ability to experience choice! We are in that period to choose ever-lasting life.

But mass is energy. So we are conscious energy. And of course we have the capacity to choose ever-lasting life. But this is only heaven when we make it to be so. There are many layers of consciousness, and we have yet to hit that critical point where enough people are operating in full consciousness and so feel no distinction and no need for evil action anymore.

Light is energy.

Light is life!

The revealing begins within ‘light’!

And the purpose of light and life is love…

I had a vision when I was a small child- meeting the Being I call the Divine One- that most would call God in our culture… a Being of Pure Light. I had had spiritual dreams and visions before, but it was that one, when I was about ten, that was one of the most amazing.

The second that was equal in amazing-ness was about five years ago when I became energy and sound, and the entire universe was energy and sound, and I understood what it was to be in and a part of that Being.

Blessings,
Path

 

[Bishadi]

that religions actually suggest we can know, then tell us. Hence, all the mythology

so what is life? And please in a pure form equal to nature

I think we can't "know" the One Divine Being, the source of everything, in the sense that we define it. If anyone ever can prove otherwise, I'll be the first to appreciate it. So far, humans make guesses

so then if guessing is the current game, then knowledge had not reached it pinnacle.

Humanity is still working on defining itself.

Ah/. Knowledge is evolving!

Understanding is not the essence of spirituality.

Put a 10 year old behind the wheel of a car, with love, and tell me, will he be confident? Will he be in essence of understanding without the knowledge of how it works?

Well to raise a child in understanding life, in truth, without beliefs or hope of magic, then he can develop with physical confidence that each action taken is either ‘good or bad’..

It's an ethnography and theoretical treatise on human cognition, emotion, perception, and how all that effects action

Ah … someone contributing to find common words to combine….’how all that effects action’…… a type of universal understanding….

And to remove the flaws, nature, science and each of the religions (cultures) must also apply.

I exist in a state that is high on God.

Lot;s of people ‘high on god’ but ten thousand different interpretations…. Why? We all know; there’s only ONE but none have a definition,

I don’t think it matters what faith a person is. What matters is one’s intent and love in the journey.

they why debate?

because what I mention does not fit your description but yet the intent (equality of each in knowledge) is pure…… it seems you like the term Love, but define love in a mass and energy form? What is the physical entity that causes the sensation we define as Love?

But mass is energy.

Mass, energy, time: the total: ONE: God.

And if energy is light and entanglement is a property of light, then gravity is a property of energy rather than the fixed mass in time. And if

And the purpose of light and life is love

then that ‘need’ of association in Love is an actual physical affect of ‘light’


remember......... knowledge evolves..... did that ring a bell?

p/s .............. guess who

 

[juantoo3]

These changes are an accumulation of multiple genetic alterations over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, within a breeding population that never numbered less than the thousands even during the most severe crashes.

Not arguing, trying to understand...

Why then all of the hoopla over "MRCA", mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosomal Adam, bottleneck with founder effect, etc.?

Apologies, I missed post 56.

 

[path_of_one]

so what is life? And please in a pure form equal to nature[/color]

Define in what way you want me to describe what life is. There is the gross and the finer levels of reality. And, I would put forth... why should I tell you my ideas? You apparently think you have The Answers, so what is the point? Dialogue is only useful when it is mutual.

I haven't a clue what you mean by "pure form equal to nature." It's poetic but not exactly descriptive.

so then if guessing is the current game, then knowledge had not reached it pinnacle.

I would put forth that's because a lot of people are playing a less-than-useful game to begin with. "All mystics speak the same language" is a proverb that indicates that personal spiritual experience can provide us a common ground that transcends our varied cultures and definitions, while still allowing us to maintain diverse symbology, mythology, doctrine and practice. I like the diversity, and yet have oneness.

Ah/. Knowledge is evolving!

In some ways. In others, we backslide. Somehow we learned better ways of storing information, for example (computers) provided we have electricity and so forth, yet we are less sustainable and more vulnerable than before as a species.

Put a 10 year old behind the wheel of a car, with love, and tell me, will he be confident?

My point was that wisdom, which is what is needed for the best course of action, springs from love and the awareness attained in love. Wisdom would not put the kid in the car in the first place, and wisdom would show what was needed to impart to the kid if one were to teach him. Without love, knowledge is empty of wisdom.

Will he be in essence of understanding without the knowledge of how it works?

Did the unabomber, knowing how bombs work, have any benefit to humanity in his actions flowing from his "understanding"? From which spiritual space- knowledge or love- is the most beneficial path for humanity going to spring? To grow in love and then be wise in both best action and the means to act, or to grow in knowledge and yet not have cultivated the purpose for it?

Perhaps you grow in knowledge and this yields love, but human history clearly shows us that this is not usually the case. Hence, we are quite ahead technologically and in our "knowledge" but we have not the capacity to use it to our earth's and species' benefit- we pollute and slaughter and are miserable as a whole.

Well to raise a child in understanding life, in truth, without beliefs or hope of magic, then he can develop with physical confidence that each action taken is either ‘good or bad’..

I haven't a clue what your definition of magic is, but magic is but one other way to take action... So no idea why raising a kid without magic is relevant to the ethics of actions to you.

And we all have beliefs. You are outlining yours right now, as am I. It's part of being human.

Ah … someone contributing to find common words to combine….’how all that effects action’…… a type of universal understanding….

A type of theory built on the cross-cultural diversity and similarity. Universal understanding must transcend the data. It's in the spirit, not the mind.

And to remove the flaws, nature, science and each of the religions (cultures) must also apply.

No clue what you're talking about. It isn't a sentence that makes sense to me. Maybe try rephrasing?

Lot

;s of people ‘high on god’ but ten thousand different interpretations…. Why? We all know; there’s only ONE but none have a definition,

Actually, most people I meet are stuck in definitions and not high on God at all. They have forgotton the joy of living. I think having all those varied interpretations are fine, and are not only due to cultural diversity (which is cool and nifty) but also our individual diversity. We are all one, and yet were created as individual, unique thoughts of the One. I find the diversity beautiful. We can have unity in spirit without unity in interpretation. I've witnessed it right here on CR.

they why debate?

Well, the point of a discussion board is to discuss. I like bouncing my ideas off people and fleshing out my ideas, I like to learn about various religions, and I like to hear what people think. Doesn't mean I will agree personally with everyone, but it's enjoyable.

because what I mention does not fit your description but yet the intent (equality of each in knowledge) is pure…… it seems you like the term Love, but define love in a mass and energy form?

I like the term love, you like the term mass and light... if your intent is pure, then your fruit will speak for itself, as mine will for me. I think the question here is that- if the universe is energy, then what is love? It goes back to consciousness and intent...

What is the physical entity that causes the sensation we define as Love?

This is too vague for me to answer. On what scale? And how do you think of Love?

Mass, energy, time: the total: ONE: God.

And? What is your point? I mean, to me, this is fairly basic... I'm not sure if there's more you're wanting to put out there?

And if energy is light and entanglement is a property of light, then gravity is a property of energy rather than the fixed mass in time. And if then that ‘need’ of association in Love is an actual physical affect of ‘light’

remember knowledge evolves..... did that ring a bell?

p/s .............. guess who

Any physicists want to weigh in on whether energy is light and make sense of all this? Or perhaps Bishadi- you could get to the point here? Is your whole point that knowledge evolves? The idea that the universe, that God, comes to know itself, so to speak isn't anything new? Are you just putting it out there for folks to toss around?

 

[Bishadi]

Define in what way you want me to describe what life is.

How do the cell walls assemble? Or purely how do phospholipid bilayers assemble?

I haven't a clue what you mean by "pure form equal to nature." It's poetic but not exactly descriptive

when you define the above, then it must be in a ‘pure form equal to nature.’

A type of theory built on the cross-cultural diversity and similarity. Universal understanding must transcend the data. It's in the spirit, not the mind.

So do you 'look' at someone to give them the knowledge?

Or is knowledge put into words; to read and comprehend?

That is what was meant with the child in the car; they have to comprehend how the car operates (what life is) to develop with Love, compassion and the confidence to exist ‘good’…..

All they need is the truth!

Actually, most people I meet are stuck in definitions and not high on God

But we were talking about how you said you were ‘high on god’ and I suggested so are a bunch of folk, then you jump on the comment with contradictions…..

They have forgotton the joy of living.

You’re all over the place…..

I think having all those varied interpretations are fine, and are not only due to cultural diversity (which is cool and nifty) but also our individual diversity. We are all one, and yet were created as individual, unique thoughts of the One. I find the diversity beautiful. We can have unity in spirit without unity in interpretation.

Hey it is that diversity ‘combined’ that offers the truth into words.

Of course we should honor the diversity but nay a single sect, and nay that "we cannot know" as

even you even suggest, that even the diversity of opinions we all can know ‘spiritually’……

Any physicists want to weigh in on whether energy is light and make sense of all this? Or perhaps Bishadi- you could get to the point here? Is your whole point that knowledge evolves? The idea that the universe, that God, comes to know itself, so to speak isn't anything new? Are you just putting it out there for folks to toss around?

No debate is necessary. All that is being suggested is ‘there is a unifying theme.’

Light!


And to comprehend that light is energy upon mass and that trinity you suggest as ‘no problem’ then a complete paradigm shift occurs combining the sciences, religions and philosophies; Perfectly!

What was in your dream?