Morality

path_of_one said:
[/font]
I think ultimately, morality in individuals fails when individuals are centered on themselves to the detriment of others, and thus they do not cultivate that which they really are (a part of God). When we stop listening long enough to that small, still voice within, eventually we forget how to do so. It's always there, but we have to embrace it to grow in it.
Click to expand...

So true.

s.
 
Paladin said:
I do find it interesting that there is a consensus about morality, ethics and religion, in that anyone outside that group is more likely to be self-centered, not concerned with others, and is lost to moral relativism.
Click to expand...

What if such a person feels an outsider to "the group" because the group, to that person, appears, amoral?

s.
 
wil said:
It appears so. Now as usual, I am just answering for me. But that is what religion has done for me. Given me a moral compass. I look at my life and it is obvious when I was without religion I had no moral compass. Sure there were laws, and there were penalties, but none of them hindered me from breaking them, nor from doing what is perceived by many as doing immoral and unethical (sorry to recombine) things flagrantly and frequently.
Other peoples concerns and feelings were not mine. Religion has given me a different perspective and changed my ways. Now I know this is not a philospical look but again personal and anecdotal, but it is a fact.
Click to expand...

Exactly: where does the moral compass come from in a secular society? Does it have one? Can it?

s.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Codifying a moral standard often has the effect of legitimizing all sorts of unethical activities which now become technically moral under the definition. Having rules creates the possibility of loopholes. In that sense establishing a moral standard can have the effect of actually lowering the bar of what is ethically allowable. Morals can serve to protect and empower abusers.
Chris
Click to expand...

Is not a certain level of codification required to prevent gross selfishness and hedonism? Or am I misunderstanding?

s.
 
Paladin said:
Snoopy, are you sleeping on the job or are you after something else here?:D
Click to expand...

Not a sneaky hidden agenda, I don't do that. As you can see, I appear to have doubts and questions, not certainties and answers. I started the thread to find out what people think. It seems to me in the UK we are reaping whatever it is that we have sewn, a dearth of morality and respect; whether it's the casual verbal abuse on the street or the daily knifings and shootings of children by children.

s.
 
Snoopy said:
Exactly: where does the moral compass come from in a secular society? Does it have one? Can it?
Click to expand...
To me there has to be a higher calling, one more important than pleasing the physical self. Someone said we spend most of our time trying to look good, or insuring we don't look bad. Trying to be right, and not perceived as wrong.

As I see it the reasons for religions and the gods were to institute this on some level. Gov't tries to do this and succeeds to some degree. But the desire to exist morally has to come from within for me anyway, and negative reinforcement does not work or only works to a degree and has to be carried out to the nth degree to be 'totally' effective.

So a religion that creates a desire within me to be a better person is what changed my wicked ways. But that doesn't work for all. I don't know if anything does. I also believe I had to be ready for it, ya know, pupil was ready....
 
Snoopy said:
As in me, compared to a considerable segment of UK society?

s.
Click to expand...

So I take it you are dismayed at the behavior and attitude of most of the population? Sometimes I feel the same way, but there are so many people out there that restore my faith in mankind.
Now as I remember you have read Wilber, and are aware of the percentage of people worldwide at different levels of moral development, yes?
 
wil said:
To me there has to be a higher calling, one more important than pleasing the physical self. Someone said we spend most of our time trying to look good, or insuring we don't look bad. Trying to be right, and not perceived as wrong.

As I see it the reasons for religions and the gods were to institute this on some level. Gov't tries to do this and succeeds to some degree. But the desire to exist morally has to come from within for me anyway, and negative reinforcement does not work or only works to a degree and has to be carried out to the nth degree to be 'totally' effective.

So a religion that creates a desire within me to be a better person is what changed my wicked ways. But that doesn't work for all. I don't know if anything does. I also believe I had to be ready for it, ya know, pupil was ready....
Click to expand...

So what I'm hearing is that you sensing a need for change and became willing to make those changes, sought out a vehicle (religion) to facilitate that change?
 
Paladin said:
So what I'm hearing is that you sensing a need for change and became willing to make those changes, sought out a vehicle (religion) to facilitate that change?
Click to expand...
Actually my path for religions was long, tried a lot and nothing resonated. But all the time my immoral activity was progessing mightily. Tao will shoot me, but I got back into religion for my kids to get some sort of religious education. Between the children and the church, my ways changed. Now that you ask the question, I believe the children assisted in the change as well. ie increased my awareness of how my life and choices impact others.

Thanx for exposing that. I currently see it as a culmination of factors. Not to say I don't still have a way to go on the virtue scale.
 
Paladin said:
So I take it you are dismayed at the behavior and attitude of most of the population?
Click to expand...

A significant proportion, it seems.


Sometimes I feel the same way, but there are so many people out there that restore my faith in mankind.
Click to expand...
I realise this, maybe there’s a skewing of perception because good news isn’t usually news.


Now as I remember you have read Wilber,
Click to expand...
Wilber may still be bubbling around on my To Read list but he’s slipping down it. I’ve been impressed by Brad Warner’s books (so I’m a heathen) and he’s kind of underwhelmed by Wilber. Naturally I’m unable to make up my own mind on the matter. :rolleyes:


and are aware of the percentage of people worldwide at different levels of moral development, yes?
Click to expand...
Well, er, that seems like an obvious thing no?

s.
 
Snoopy said:
Is not a certain level of codification required to prevent gross selfishness and hedonism? Or am I misunderstanding?

s.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I missed this.

Yeah, I was just thinking of all the parasites that bureaucracy brings with it.

Chris
 
I like to combine hedonism and morality, I do not think the two mutually exclusive. Pleasure is rarely that if experienced alone and what is more moral than participating and sharing in happiness? Of course pleasure does not float everybody's boat, some people get off on being dour, judgemental and holier than thou but you cannot please all of the people all of the time. But for such people it is usually much easier to bring pleasure to their children.

tao
 
Can we define different levels of moral development. Just because something is considered immoral in one society and moral in another, who can judge which society is correct?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top