The art of happiness

Nettie-Nettie,

The thing is your way has never worked for me......
And believe me when I say...... I've been there.

Has it worked for you?

So, I speak from a way and place I do know works from experience.

Ah, mindfullness yes, awareness, yes.. but above all open-ness to love.
This mind is something of an empty space otherwise connected. It graduated some time ago when it realised it didn't need to do the dirty work of delving into a bottomless pit forever....

Now life is the moment and the only way.

- c -
 
Ciel said:
Nettie-Nettie,

The thing is your way has never worked for me......
And believe me when I say...... I've been there.
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Hi Ciel,

I'm surprised you feel I've given you enough information about "my way" to give you a basis for comparison. I don't think I have ever given anyone a complete statement on what I believe and what exactly I do in terms of religious practice. I think you are sizing me up a little too fast based on a handful of quick comments about craving and clinging.

Has it worked for you?
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I feel very blessed and at times am overcome by a sense of gratitude that is almost unbearable. But that doesn't mean I won't remain mindful of the possibilities for wrong thinking and wrong intention like a faithful watchdog.

This mind is something of an empty space otherwise connected. It graduated some time ago when it realised it didn't need to do the dirty work of delving into a bottomless pit forever....
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Human history and human existence are far more tragic than most of us will admit to ourselves. One does not need to go all the way down to the bottom - or even close to the bottom - to get an inkling of it.

I only delve far enough to preserve a basic sense of humility and to remember my origins. Any farther than that is not necessary and not useful.
 
Hi Nettie,

True I don't know you except for your postings on CR. :)

Would you understand if I said the words are only the second issue compared with expression and application. You might call it,"The art of the post"

The positive and negative stance.
Our steps are a different dance.
Can happiness dance flipped over.
Just different

peace - c -
 
Ciel said:
True I don't know you except for your postings on CR. :)
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Hi Ciel,

Elsewhere you wrote:
You know only what you consider you know about Ciel.
It is as small as a grain of sand.
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Why would it be any different for anyone else?


Would you understand if I said the words are only the second issue compared with expression and application.
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Of course. Why wouldn't I?
 
Netti-Netti,

I see you have taken the time to review my past post.........

I believe in accentuating the positive to create nourishment.

- c -
 
Ciel said:
Netti-Netti,

I see you have taken the time to review my past post.........

I believe in accentuating the positive to create nourishment.

- c -
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:)
Quotes from the Dalai Lama:
  • It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come.
  • If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
 
I went to see the Dalai Lama. He talked about compassion quite a bit.

I don't recall him saying much about where compassion comes from....
 
Netti-Netti said:
I went to see the Dalai Lama. He talked about compassion quite a bit.

I don't recall him saying much about where compassion comes from....
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"True compassion is not just an emotional response, but a firm commitment based on reason."
~Dalai Lama​
Seeds of Compassion conference webcasts

From the Dhammapada:

]Dhammapada 1:1-5
1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

​
 
seattlegal said:
"True compassion is not just an emotional response, but a firm commitment based on reason." ~Dalai Lama
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Thank you for the great quotes, SG. Sometimes I get the impression that you have all the world's wisdom at your fingertips. Maybe you do!
3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.​

4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.​

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.​
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Great passage. Vindictiveness is an expression of attachment to self, a twisted egoistic version of justice. I'm not so sure it can be eliminated entirely, but I believe the quality of justice can be improved by wedding it to compassion and forgiveness.

I had another quick thought in the context of what we were discussing before....In Buddhism, compassion is serious business because it arises from an awareness of the problem of suffering, which relates to the fact that the world of forms is temporary. This understanding of the problem of evil is in fact the starting point of Buddhism.

One important difference between Buddhism and Christianity is that in Buddhism the problem of evil appears as universal and ever-present rather. In Christianity, it appears as a property of individual action that is out of line with G-d's will - i.e., the action of somebody who is either not paying attention to the L-rd's commandments or, for whatever reason, not keeping the commandments. I think it's called sin or something like that.

In Buddhism the problem of evil relates to suffering, which in turn reflects ignorance and attachment (desires and aversions) in a world the very nature of which does not lend itself to any kind of lasting happiness. It seems to me that in Buddhism virtue is a byproduct of a change of heart that results from awakening and insight into the nature of things, whereas in Christianity is follows from repentance, which is principally an awareness of a moral failure which has a karmic taint to it, but it gets wiped away pretty much instantly by Grace. Some people see that as getting off easy, and I can see why.


Buddhism is form of personal discipline as well as a worldview that informs the discipline. A continuous awareness of the problem of evil and its ramifications provides a basis for ongoing practice:
It is beneficial to be aware that you will die. Why? If you are not aware of death, you will not be mindful of your practice, but will just spend your life meaninglessly, not examining what sorts of attitudes and actions perpetuate suffering and which ones bring about happiness. ​
If you are not mindful that you might die soon, you will fall under the sway of a false sense of permanence "I'll die later on, later on."​
Suffering is the focus of Buddhist doctrine as well as the focus of practice. The Buddhist literature includes numerous such mediations on impermanence like the one from the Dalai Lama. These meditations keep you alert to the nature of existence. In Peter Morrell's words, "The underlying purpose of this practice is to constantly keep in mind the basic unattractiveness of the world, its emptiness and unsatisfying nature, to realize continuously the fundamental impermanence of all forms."

It is helpful to accentuate the positive. This is partly how we remain aware of the blessings. Why is this important? The attitude of gratitude protects us from misguided efforts to substitute the fruits of our selfish actions for those blessings, which will only magnify the manic-depressive cycle of expecting rewards for our selfish actions only to be disappointed all over again and have our shame and despair increased.

The analysis and removal of defilements (attachment and karmic entanglements) are part and parcel of the process by which the attitude of gratitude gains a sure footing. Self-centered emotions like worry, self-consciousness, disappointment and anger can be to a large extent replaced by wholesome emotions.

Like compassion, we see the attitude of gratitude as a fortuitous result of recognizing that things for what they are: temporary. Gratitude means cherishing while we can. Here the Dalai Lama reminds us again:
Everyday, think as you wake up, today I am fortunate to be alive, I have a precious human life, I am not going to waste it. I am going to use all my energies to develop myself, to expand my heart out to others; to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all beings. I am going to have kind thoughts towards others, I am not going to get angry or think badly about others. I am going to benefit others as much as I can.​
 
Netti-Netti said:
One important difference between Buddhism and Christianity is that in Buddhism the problem of evil appears as universal and ever-present rather. In Christianity, it appears as a property of individual action that is out of line with G-d's will - i.e., the action of somebody who is either not paying attention to the L-rd's commandments or, for whatever reason, not keeping the commandments. I think it's called sin or something like that.

In Buddhism the problem of evil relates to suffering, which in turn reflects ignorance and attachment (desires and aversions) in a world the very nature of which does not lend itself to any kind of lasting happiness.
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Partaking of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? ;)

It seems to me that in Buddhism virtue is a byproduct of a change of heart that results from awakening and insight into the nature of things, whereas in Christianity is follows from repentance, which is principally an awareness of a moral failure which has a karmic taint to it, but it gets wiped away pretty much instantly by Grace. Some people see that as getting off easy, and I can see why.
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Match the colors:
Matt 5:7-8
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.

The Noble Eightfold Path--Chapter III
Right Intention
(Samma Sankappa)
The Buddha explains right intention as threefold: the intention of renunciation, the intention of good will, and the intention of harmlessness.14 The three are opposed to three parallel kinds of wrong intention: intention governed by desire, intention governed by ill will, and intention governed by harmfulness.15 Each kind of right intention counters the corresponding kind of wrong intention. The intention of renunciation counters the intention of desire, the intention of good will counters the intention of ill will, and the intention of harmlessness counters the intention of harmfulness.​
Purifying the heart is very much a part of Christianity, and repentence/renunciation is very much a part of Buddhism.
 
Ahanu said:
I can recall people asking me personal questions in a face-to-face conversation, and if it involves some type of mental pain, then I will quickly ignore, or avoid, truly talking about whatever was just asked. It is like I ignore the pain that is there.
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Maybe to avoid your own pain?

I fail to respond to it. I know for a fact that people can feel my apathy. Some of the Dalai Lama's advice for this is to "reflect on how you feel when someone is kind to you."
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Good advice, but remember - receiving kindness is very different from giving.


Also, it causes me to think more deeply about how the other person feels in order for me to build a deeper connection with others. I think this will help in not allowing me to make others into what I want them to be.
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Yes, good empathy.

Here are some steps I have in my notes for overcoming these negative mindstates.

1. Learning
2. Developing conviction, or a sense of urgency
3. Determination to change
4. Action
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That covers it.

According to the Gita, Bhakti is te highest form of religious devotion. However, the commiment to Good and Loving Kindness is evident in most every world religion. Sometimes it is discussed in terms of the Spiritual Unity of human-divine and human-human.

According to the Belief.Net test I took last week, I'm 100% Sikh. That was news to me since I know next to nothing about the religion or its practitioners. :)

Anyhoo, I've been looking into their literature and discovered the Sukhmani, some of which seemed relevant to what you had mentioned:


Some of the verses are stated in a fairly traditional negative reinforcement style:
Without the Fear of God, all that is fashioned is false.​
Afraid of fear, and living in fear, the mind is held in tumult. ​
Be afraid, if you have any fear, other than the Fear of God.​
If God, the Destroyer of fear, does not dwell within your mind,​
you shall spend countless incarnations in fear and dread.​

On the more positive side, there is a "state of fearless dignity" that becomes available through devotion:
One who is attuned to the Lord, is free of all anxieties.​
In His Sanctuary, there is no fear or sorrow.​
Only the Lord's servants are free of fear.​
Those who remain immersed in the Fear of God become fearless.​
The fire of fear within the body is burnt away by the Fear of God.​
My fear was removed, when I saw that He is pervading everywhere. ​
Other fears are forgotten, and they are absorbed into the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ​
In the Society of the Saints, He dwells in the mind; doubt, emotional attachment and fear are vanquished​
Raag Gauree

I think a devotional discipline will help both insight and application. You have a working plan of action that can be supported by a devotional aspect that includes some regular study, meditation, and remembrance.
 
Netti-Netti said:
But where is the forgiveness part?
There is no G-d to do the forgiving.
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Here's a different translation of Dhammapad 1:1-5

1. All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage.

2. All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.

3. 'He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'--in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease.

4. 'He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'--in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease.

5. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by love, this is an old rule.​

It would seem that one's happiness is dependent upon one's ability to forgive and love, as noted verses 2-5 above.

There are parallels to this in Christianity, as well:
Matt 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.​

While Buddhism says that the precise outworking of karma is not something that one can conjecture about without being plagued by madness and vexation (see Acintita Sutta,) Christianity recognizes that this can be overcome through faith. Compare Luke 7:36-50 especially verses 47 & 50
47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
<...>
50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”​
The woman was forgiven much because she loved much. (Compare to Dhammapada 1:5 above that says that hate ceases by love.)

{Does faith count as conjecture? How would that fit in with Dhammapada 1 & 2?}
 
I think it is important for us to exercise forgiveness and I expect we would see convergence on this among various religious traditions. For example, from the Sikh sacred text, the Granth: "Practice forgiveness is the true fast, good conduct and contentment."
seattlegal said:
It would seem that one's happiness is dependent upon one's ability to forgive and love, as noted verses 2-5 above.
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Yes, Buddhism is very much concerned with the individual's state of mind. For me to forgive would be a form of loving kindness and would lend itself to a wholesome state. This emphasis on state of mind seem quite different from the Ultimate Blessing of Salvation for which the Christian is dependent on G-d for G-d's forgiveness.
Buddhism says that the precise outworking of karma is not something that one can conjecture about without being plagued by madness and vexation
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To me that means it's not clear whether acts of forgiveness can remove Karma or change the balance of positive/negative Karma.

In the Mahayana, release is equated with "the exhaustion if error," which in turn leads to the end of mistaken action. It seems the emphasis is on not creating more Karma rather than on getting rid of old Karma. Also, this process does not seem to specifically involve forgiveness. It has more to do with gaining the knowledge by which attachment, craving and clinging are overcome.

It seems like we should be able to see a way to find some overlap between Buddhism and Christianity on the subject of forgiveness. But since Buddhism does not have a Supreme Merciful Deity who does the forgiving, that is probably not likely. Me forgiving myself or others is very different from G-d granting salvation by His forgiveness and by the Atonement through Jesus Christ.
 
Netti-Netti said:
I think it is important for us to exercise forgiveness and I expect we would see convergence on this among various religious traditions. For example, from the Sikh sacred text, the Granth: "Practice forgiveness is the true fast, good conduct and contentment."

Yes, Buddhism is very much concerned with the individual's state of mind. Forgiving would be a for of loving kindness and would lend itself to a wholesome state. This emphasis on state of mind seem quite different from the Ultimate Blessing of Salvation for which the Christian is dependent on G-d for G-d's forgiveness.

To me that means it's not clear whether acts of forgiveness can remove Karma or change the balance of positive/negative Karma.

In the Mahayana, release is equated with "the exhaustion if error," which in turn leads to the end of mistaken action. It seems the emphasis is on not creating more Karma rather than on getting rid of old Karma. Also, this process does not seem to specifically involve forgiveness. It has more to do with gaining the knowledge by which attachment, craving and clinging are overcome.

It seems like we should be able to see a way to find some overlap between Buddhism and Christianity on the subject of forgiveness. But since Buddhism does not have a Supreme Merciful Deity who does the forgiving, that is probably not likely. Me forgiving myself or others is very different from G-d granting salvation by His forgiveness and by the Atonement through Jesus Christ.
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This relates back to this quote from the Dalai Lama:
"True compassion is not just an emotional response, but a firm commitment based on reason." ~Dalai Lama​
The parallels between Christianity and Buddhism helps to show how love, compassion and forgiveness expressed in Christianity through faith can be backed up by the reason expressed in Buddhism. :)
 
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