If Jesus is God...

I am certain he did know who he was :)

"And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the son may bring glory to the father."
Again, there is the dual nature of Jesus, that of a man and that of God. The glory being brought to the Father was through the human son (proving to us that we too could walk in honor and glory to God). If fact, Jesus made it clear that we (man) would do things even greater than he.

Not sure about you, but building a heart out of plastic and steel is pretty amazing...so is seven people riding a continuous explosion into space, and then living in a vaccuum for weeks or months at a time.

Definitely a man ahead of his time, and knew what we would be capable of, in time.

Son of God, is an appropriate title for a human being. God is an appropriate title for the "being".
 
"Son of God, is an appropriate title for a human being. God is an appropriate title for the "being". "


That is an interesting way of putting things... Will I be god when I die?
no soldier, there can only be one general...but you will be close to him. :D

that's good enough for me.
 
Worship the one true God, not a human being. Human worship originated from the pagans and has nothing to do with the great faith of Abraham.
Abraham did worship Jesus who visited him in the desert.

And YHWH appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant.


Your father rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad. Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet 50 years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM'"
 
Abraham did worship Jesus who visited him in the desert.

And YHWH appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant.

Your father rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad. Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet 50 years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM'"
Abdillah can not comprehend the difference between Jesus the man, and Jesus as God. He has no reference by which to compare to, in his faith, Blaze.

v/r

Q

as an aside: How logical would it be for God, not to walk among his creation, and personally enjoy and experience it? I know for fact that when I create something, I stare at it for hours, and touch it, and fiddle with it, and note the imperfections, and adjust them...why would not God do the same thing? Answer: He would, and did.
 
Thanks everyone for all the input.

I dunno: "Son of Man", "Son of God", endless talking in parables, endless beating about the bush, many references to the father as a separate entity. I can't help thinking He was getting at something more subtle than "I am God". True in some cases he didn't straight deny it when he could have but couldn't he have simply been asserting the divine spark in as all as children of God beloved of their creator? After all it is also written in John 17:21-27,

"21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

:)
 
A factor often overlooked is, if Jesus is not God, then he is indeed a madman, or a blasphemer.

Too often people look at what he says, but not at what He says, says — read not just His words, look at not just His deeds, but what do His words and His deeds say about Him?

"And there were some of the scribes sitting there, and thinking in their hearts: Why doth this man speak thus? he blasphemeth. Who can forgive sins, but God only? Which Jesus presently knowing in his spirit, that they so thought within themselves, saith to them ... But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins" (Mark 2:6-10)

Again:
"And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth" (Matthew 28:18)

A human nature cannot contain such power, nor can a human nature, unknowing of its own good and its own end, use such power wisely and knowingly. As the saying goes, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" — but not He.

Therefore He cannot be just a man ... for no nature can contain a power that transcends its own nature.

Yet throughout the Gospels, Jesus speaks and acts in His own name, which is unthinkable ... no prophet of Israel has ever spoken thus. Look at the Beatitudes, "You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you ... " (Matthew 5:21-22, my emphasis). So now He's rewriting the decalogue! The Law of Moses!

Jesus heals, cures, performs miracles, raises the dead and forgives sin in His own name — this is blasphemy, unless He is God.

St Luke 'tells it how it is':
"... the chief priests and the scribes, with the ancients, met together, And spoke to him (Jesus), saying: Tell us, by what authority dost thou these things? or, Who is he that hath given thee this authority? And Jesus answering, said to them: I will also ask you one thing. Answer me: The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? But they thought within themselves, saying: If we shall say, From heaven: he will say: Why then did you not believe him? But if we say, Of men, the whole people will stone us: for they are persuaded that John was a prophet. And they answered, that they knew not whence it was. And Jesus said to them: Neither do I tell thee by what authority I do these things." (Luke 20:1-8)

He has caught them in their own duplicity ... but he catches us in our own duplicity also, for we are just like they, we profess to believe in God, but act in pursuit of our own best interests.

Luke goes on, in the Parable of the vineyard.
A man plants a vineyard, and lets it out to husbandmen. The husbandmen seek to possess the vineyard for themselves, and they beat the master's servants, and send them away.

"Then the lord of the vineyard said: What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be, when they see him, they will reverence him. Whom when the husbandmen saw, they thought within themselves, saying: This is the heir, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. So casting him out of the vineyard, they killed him." (Luke 20:13-15)

In the light of the Cross, the allusion is obvious ... the Son of Man knew the hour to which He was destined, the glory that awaited Him.

Oh, and by the way, please let us not make the naive and fundamental error of assuming that the wicked husbandmen are someone else, but not us ...

The soul is His vineyard, and we have possessed it as our own inheritance.

Thomas
 
They got the idea because they (just like Christians today) misintepreted the words of Jesus, which is why Jesus had to clarify to them what he really meant by quoting Psalm 82.



You should not swear by anything other than God Himself.
the hard thing about "opinions" is they are hard to prove as fact. Psalm 82 wasn't about Jesus. It was about unjust judgements - rebuked. Let's try to keep scripture on the right path...

Swearing is, I agree with you, a serious declaration, and should not be taken lightly.
 
UH, and evidence isn't at all in opinion... lol.
evedince either convicts or aquits...it's hard core proof. Now unless you are saying that proof doesn't prove anything, then there is no argument. But if you are, then there is no argument again, because all becomes mute.
 
So for example... "jesus is god." That statement is a fact?
He said so, but then what do you think?

see: He kind of spread his arms out wide and said "I love you this much"...then he died.
 
I wasn't interested in what I thought, I just wanted to see how far you go with the opinion/fact thing... Thanks for the post. :D
Well, the facts are that this very old book tells us what he did. The fact is there is a very old book. The fact is it tells us what Jesus did. What opinion are you concerned about?
 
Well how there are all these facts.... Yet so many different outcomes from the facts..... There must be some opinion in there somewhere which bares upon the outcome of these facts. That is just one example (which is kind of relevant in such a topic heh) where facts do come down to opinions I feel.
 
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