If Jesus is God...

Quohom said:
the hard thing about "opinions" is they are hard to prove as fact. Psalm 82 wasn't about Jesus. It was about unjust judgements - rebuked. Let's try to keep scripture on the right path...

If you want to talk about facts, than it is a fact that Jesus quoted Psalm 82. Can you tell me the reason he quoted it? When the Jews said Jesus was pretending to be god, Jesus quoted this psalm 82 to justify himself. Psalm 82 calls the israelites as "gods". Here is the logical conclusion: if Jesus is god, than there are many others "gods" as well. You cannot escape this fact.
 
Well how there are all these facts.... Yet so many different outcomes from the facts..... There must be some opinion in there somewhere which bares upon the outcome of these facts. That is just one example (which is kind of relevant in such a topic heh) where facts do come down to opinions I feel.
There is an old book (a bibliographa), that spans thousands of years. (FACT). Within that book, there is a promise of a redemer (FACT), within that book is a man who calls himself redemer (FACT), within that book is a promise that that redemer will come again (FACT).

Again, I ask you, what opinion is at issue here?
 
If you want to talk about facts, than it is a fact that Jesus quoted Psalm 82. Can you tell me the reason he quoted it? When the Jews said Jesus was pretending to be god, Jesus quoted this psalm 82 to justify himself. Psalm 82 calls the israelites as "gods". Here is the logical conclusion: if Jesus is god, than there are many others "gods" as well. You cannot escape this fact.
Actually Abdillah if you look in Deut, you will find that the God head considered the plight of man as he built the "tower of Babel". The thought was that there was nothing man could not accomplish should he set his mind to it...(gods indeed).

So they confounded his language, to make it more difficult, and scattered him to the four corners of the earth.

Only God, can scatter gods...

that, according to scripture, is fact.
 
All of these questions about Jesus' claims center around a misunderstanding of the nature of what Christ is and who was The Christ that was mentioned in scripture and also how the word Christ relates to us. To understand what 'Christ' means clears up many misunderstandings about Jesus' claims. (Also, to misunderstand the word 'Christ' does not make one an anti-Christ, which is an accusation that has been made worthless by its frivolous use.)

Thomas said:
Yet throughout the Gospels, Jesus speaks and acts in His own name, which is unthinkable ... no prophet of Israel has ever spoken thus.
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, `Honor your father and your mother';...
When Moses gave a command, he would simply tell them what to do, but yet he spoke in the name of the LORD. That doesn't mean he said 'In the Name of the LORD' after every breath, but that to Israel he was the LORD even though a man cannot truly be that. The Scripture says that Moses was faithful in all the LORD's house, which implies that lots and lots of authority had been given to Moses, perhaps even 'All power in heaven & earth' in the sense that Jesus used the phrase. Additionally, Moses left orders that one day there would be a prophet like (equal) to himself. Deuteronomy 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren -- him you shall heed --" John 1:45 Philip found Nathanael, and said to him, "We have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

Finally, the anointing of Christ (the name which is above every name) which is upon Jesus also is upon us as we are filled with the Spirit through Scripture but more through another of God's influences upon us. Jesus continues to work with us from where he is now to get everything accomplished just as planned. He is the chief architect. He is exalted to the highest place at the 'Right hand' of God, which is also called the 'Household of Faith', the 'Bride of Christ', and 'The Church' of which Jesus is the only chief. Even that position he will one day relinquish, in order to undo a terrible error which our 'Household of Faith' once made which was to choose a man to be king instead of choosing God. Even this will be brought to an end through Jesus. I Corinthians 15:24 "Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power." and I Samuel 8:7 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Hearken to the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.

Ephesians 3:14-21 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man, and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 5:17-21 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, always and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father. Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.
 
All of these questions about Jesus' claims center around a misunderstanding of the nature of what Christ is and who was The Christ that was mentioned in scripture and also how the word Christ relates to us. To understand what 'Christ' means clears up many misunderstandings about Jesus' claims. (Also, to misunderstand the word 'Christ' does not make one an anti-Christ, which is an accusation that has been made worthless by its frivolous use.)

Mark 7:10 For Moses said, `Honor your father and your mother';...
When Moses gave a command, he would simply tell them what to do, but yet he spoke in the name of the LORD. That doesn't mean he said 'In the Name of the LORD' after every breath, but that to Israel he was the LORD even though a man cannot truly be that. The Scripture says that Moses was faithful in all the LORD's house, which implies that lots and lots of authority had been given to Moses, perhaps even 'All power in heaven & earth' in the sense that Jesus used the phrase. Additionally, Moses left orders that one day there would be a prophet like (equal) to himself. Deuteronomy 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren -- him you shall heed --" John 1:45 Philip found Nathanael, and said to him, "We have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

Finally, the anointing of Christ (the name which is above every name) which is upon Jesus also is upon us as we are filled with the Spirit through Scripture but more through another of God's influences upon us. Jesus continues to work with us from where he is now to get everything accomplished just as planned. He is the chief architect. He is exalted to the highest place at the 'Right hand' of God, which is also called the 'Household of Faith', the 'Bride of Christ', and 'The Church' of which Jesus is the only chief. Even that position he will one day relinquish, in order to undo a terrible error which our 'Household of Faith' once made which was to choose a man to be king instead of choosing God. Even this will be brought to an end through Jesus. I Corinthians 15:24 "Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power." and I Samuel 8:7 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Hearken to the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.

Ephesians 3:14-21 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man, and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 5:17-21 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, always and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father. Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.
all good but for one thing. He is the father.
 
If you want to talk about facts, than it is a fact that Jesus quoted Psalm 82. Can you tell me the reason he quoted it?
In John 10:30, Jesus had claimed to be one with God and the Pharisees got upset with Him and wanted to kill Him. He defended His position by quoting Psalm 82:6. In that Psalm, God is mocking the religious leaders of the day who had the power of life and death over their subjects. God says in the very next verse, "Nevertheless, you will die like men."
 
Quahom1 said:
all good but for one thing. He is the father.
The world does not fall to pieces because one man says this and another that, so whether Jesus was somehow God or whether he was not his work continues to this day. The best thing about Christ is that since there is only one chief, we all respect one another which is part of being subject to one another out of reverence for Christ in each other (implied). That means disagreement does not equal you are antichrist or I am antichrist, but saying 'Agree with me or you are wrong' is. One explanation of this comes from I letter of John. John uses symbols to handily express it: He says that God is light and in him is no darkness at all; which effectively is a contrast to us who are riddled with dark. We must confess that our enlightenment will contain some darkness. Only then can we expect to be cleansed, and that cleansing is an ongoing process during our fellowship (equality) with one another.

John 1:5-105 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth; but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
In John 10:30, Jesus had claimed to be one with God and the Pharisees got upset with Him and wanted to kill Him. He defended His position by quoting Psalm 82:6. In that Psalm, God is mocking the religious leaders of the day who had the power of life and death over their subjects. God says in the very next verse, "Nevertheless, you will die like men."

I do not mean any disrespect, but this is completely incorrect. Jesus didn't quote "nevertheless you will die like men", he quoted "Have I not said: you are gods" please read John 10:34 very carefully, its only a certain part of Psalm 82 which Jesus is quoting to the pharisees. Remember, Jesus asked them why are they stoning him, and they said because he is pretending to be god. If Jesus really was god, he would have said: "stone me all you want, I'm god and there's nothing you can do about it" or something along those lines. Instead, Jesus clarified to the pharisees what he really meant because he did not want them to stone him for the wrong reason. So if he really was god, he wouldn't have objected to the pharisees stoning him.
 
I do not mean any disrespect, but this is completely incorrect.
Because you don't understand does not make it incorrect. The religious authorities were after Jesus under an understanding of the law that it's blasphemy for any man to be called 'God': "The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a man, make yourself God.'" But no such law can be found in the Bible. The Bible itself, in Psalm 82 calls men 'gods': the unjust judges of ancient Israel (mocking them). Therefore, the law under which they wish to prosecute Him is null and void: there is no such law.
 
The Bible itself, in Psalm 82 calls men 'gods': the unjust judges of ancient Israel (mocking them). Therefore, the law under which they wish to prosecute Him is null and void: there is no such law.

Than this can only mean one thing, Jesus is a "god" in the exact same sense Psalm 82 calls the Israelites as "gods" and "sons of the Most High". That was my whole point. If you accept this, than the whole foundation of Christianity falls to pieces. If Jesus is the divine son of God, than so are a multitude of other people.
 
Than this can only mean one thing, Jesus is a "god" in the exact same sense Psalm 82 calls the Israelites as "gods" and "sons of the Most High". That was my whole point. If you accept this, than the whole foundation of Christianity falls to pieces. If Jesus is the divine son of God, than so are a multitude of other people.
No, thats not what it means, you might try to study it more in light of the rest of scripture. Furthermore, God the Father has called his Son God, and where all men fall short of the glory of God, Jesus is the brightness of His glory.
 
I was just thinking,...... many people say many things but not always according to accurate knowledge.
just because the Jews were thinking of stoning Jesus for blasphemy, does not mean they were correct in their thinking, Jesus had told them that he was GODS SON but it seems they were the ones in the wrong . they didnt listen to Jesus did they .


it seems nothing changes when it comes to those who claim to represent God.
Those religious leaders(of christendom) even today make things up along the way, in more ways than one :rolleyes: if they listened to Jesus they would not be into inaccurate knowledge .
 
Seeing how this is the Abrahamic Thread, viewpoints of Jews, Muslims and Christians are welcomed and open to discussion. However each veiwpoint is exactly that, a viewpoint from their perspective of their religions understanding on the topic.

Hence the thought on the topic will obviously be varied and may not agree with your personal thought.

OOPS my bad, actually the new format thru me and this is actually in the Christian Forum!! But that surely doesn't preclude us Christians from having a variety of viewpoints on the matter...
 
Last edited:
Seeing how this is the Abrahamic Thread, viewpoints of Jews, Muslims and Christians are welcomed and open to discussion. However each veiwpoint is exactly that, a viewpoint from their perspective of their religions understanding on the topic.

Hence the thought on the topic will obviously be varied and may not agree with your personal thought.
nice one :)
 
I was just thinking,...... many people say many things but not always according to accurate knowledge.
just because the Jews were thinking of stoning Jesus for blasphemy, does not mean they were correct in their thinking, Jesus had told them that he was GODS SON but it seems they were the ones in the wrong . they didnt listen to Jesus did they .


it seems nothing changes when it comes to those who claim to represent God.
Those religious leaders(of christendom) even today make things up along the way, in more ways than one :rolleyes: if they listened to Jesus they would not be into inaccurate knowledge .

To me it sounds like they always reached for the stones when what they thought they knew what He meant. People are like that.

qj
 
And sometimes they start a new religion...it happens:eek:
Or even get out of false religion , and put themselves on the right track revelation 18;4:) and then they are blessed by the Almighty , and even given more responsibility matthew 24;45-47
 
Or even get out of false religion , and put themselves on the right track revelation 18;4:) and then they are blessed by the Almighty , and even given more responsibility matthew 24;45-47
Yep they can do that, get a false religion. Or they can walk away from religion completely...
 
Back
Top