Hell: Another man make doctrine.

[17th Angel]

Winner... How long can a human body endure fire?

 

[Thomas]

Hi Nick —

Psalm 90: ...from everlasting to everlasting....

Psalm 148: ...forever and ever....

Eternity cannot be followed by another eternity, but this is exactly what the Bible says in both instances.

Well at least we're getting somewhere in that you now accept 'eternity' as a possible reading of the word.

Clearly, the Bible has been mistranslated from the original.

Well that makes no sense ... you can only say 'clearly' when you have evidence to that effect. Clearly, you have not. I would say you have misunderstood it, clearly.

It's called 'poetic licence' — the Psalms are spiritual poems of the most exquisite kind ... to read them as literally as you do, is really to not understand them at all — poetry should never be read this way, let alone sacra doctrina. Again, it's a 'letter v spirit' thing.

The original word was similar to ... the present-day Buddhist and Hindu word Kalpa, which is a period of time of millions or billions of years in length. Therefore, both phrases in both Psalms are correcly translated into English as meaning kalpa after kalpa.

That's a rather startling notion ... can you supply this 'original word', its etymology and trace it's movement?

Thomas

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Thomas,

You said,

"...you now accept 'eternity' as a possible reading of the word.

--> There is no question that everlasting means eternity.

"...the Bible has been mistranslated from the original. --> Well that makes no sense."

--> Only one eternity — only one everlasting — can happen. The fact that the Bible says one eternity follows another shows the Bible's error. The fact that this error exists in the Bible makes perfect sense.

Look at the original line,

...from kalpa to kalpa ....

Now look at the Biblical version,

...from everlasting to everlasting....

and it is easy to see how the original, make-sense sentence became the present-day, non-sensical translation.

"It's called 'poetic licence'...."

--> No, it's called covering up a intentionally mistaken translation.

"...kalpa... --> That's a rather startling notion ... can you supply this 'original word', its etymology and trace it's movement?"

--> I believe the original word actually was Kalpa. Such 'tracing' has already been done, in the book, The Secret Doctrine.

The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky

"That's a rather startling notion...."

--> I am only too happy to explain the Bible to you.

 

[dailogue is the best]

Winner... How long can a human body endure fire?

Alex, The answer for this is presented in the Quran. God says:

[4:56] Surely, those who disbelieve in our revelations, we will condemn them to the hellfire. Whenever their skins are burnt, we will give them new skins. Thus, they will suffer continuously. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

Actually, this verse presents a scientific fact. It was believed that brain is the one responsible for pain receptors, then it was discovered that pain receptors are located in skin:

Prof. Tagatat Tejasen, Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at Chiang Mai University in Thailand, has spent a great amount of time on research of pain receptors. Initially he could not believe that the Qur’an mentioned this scientific fact 1,400 years ago. He later verified the translation of this particular Qur’anic verse. Prof. Tejasen was so impressed by the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verse.....

Source: Peace Propagation Center - Holy Qur'an & General Science

 

[winner08]

Winner... How long can a human body endure fire?

Sorry Alex P it took my awhile to get back to you. And the ansewer is? I do not know. I swear that's the truth and nothing but the truth so help me.

Alex do you know?

Alex are speaking physically the body burning? Or how long we can stand the pain of being burned. If your asking how long can the body endure burning well I know. I can not take it very long. Maby a split second or so.

Alex P there is the spiritual fire of God. It is an all consumming spiritualf ire that will burn up all our carnality, our human nature. What will be left will be a new being made of spirit. Then we will be in the image of God Himself.

Darren

PS How you been?

 

[winner08]

Alex, The answer for this is presented in the Quran. God says:

[4:56] Surely, those who disbelieve in our revelations, we will condemn them to the hellfire. Whenever their skins are burnt, we will give them new skins. Thus, they will suffer continuously. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

Actually, this verse presents a scientific fact. It was believed that brain is the one responsible for pain receptors, then it was discovered that pain receptors are located in skin:



Source: Peace Propagation Center - Holy Qur'an & General Science

I did not know that. Although I have heard that the brain shuts down when the pain becomes unbareable.

Darren

 

[winner08]

This question is for anybody: WE all herd this before. When you die your soul either goes to heaven or hell. In the case of the Cathloics purgatory. My question is: So after we die and our soul goes to whatever place ,then what? How long are we there before Jesus returns and judges us? Then after Jesus return and He has to brings us back from where ever we were, He then judges us and sends us BACK from where we just came from. Does this make any since? First we died. Then our soul goes to heaven or hell. Then Jesus returns. Then Jesus gathers us up for the judgement. Then after we are judge we are sent back to where we just came from. I mean If you go to hell when you die then Jesus calls you back to life (your soul with your body) then judges you, you haven't change since your death, right you were dead? So Jesus just send you from where you just came from back to hell.WOW You die, you go to a place,no telling how long your suffering in hell or enjoying yourself in heaven, then Jesus gathers us up and judges us then sends us back .then we spend eternity there. Tell me it isn't so. If anyone interested .

Thanks,

Darren

 

[dailogue is the best]

This question is for anybody: WE all herd this before. When you die your soul either goes to heaven or hell. In the case of the Cathloics purgatory. My question is: So after we die and our soul goes to whatever place ,then what? How long are we there before Jesus returns and judges us? Then after Jesus return and He has to brings us back from where ever we were, He then judges us and sends us BACK from where we just came from. Does this make any since? First we died. Then our soul goes to heaven or hell. Then Jesus returns. Then Jesus gathers us up for the judgement. Then after we are judge we are sent back to where we just came from. I mean If you go to hell when you die then Jesus calls you back to life (your soul with your body) then judges you, you haven't change since your death, right you were dead? So Jesus just send you from where you just came from back to hell.WOW You die, you go to a place,no telling how long your suffering in hell or enjoying yourself in heaven, then Jesus gathers us up and judges us then sends us back .then we spend eternity there. Tell me it isn't so. If anyone interested .

Thanks,

Darren

Well, Darren, the Islamic view is different. As Muslims, we believe that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. He was rather raised to heaven. We believe that Jesus peace be upon him will be descended to earth in the last days as our prophet Muhamed peace be upon him told us. The period of Jesus reign will be very pleasant and blessed:

III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (A.S.)
1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.
2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.
3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.
4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).
5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).
6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).
7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.
8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.
9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.
10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.
11 Jihad will be stopped.
12 No Khiraaj will be taken.
13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)
14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).
15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).
16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.
17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).
18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)'s stay in the world.
19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.
20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.
21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.
22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.
23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.
24 Will animals will not harm anyone.
25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.
26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.
27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.
28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.
29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.
30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (A.S.).

source: Jesus A.S. in Islam



Concerning how our judgement would pass, these things have been explained by the Quran, and the Prophet's sayings. It goes through stages:
1- the life in the grave, which constitutes the stage of movement from death to doomsday.

The Holy Prophet

is reported to have said that when the corpse is put in the bier and the people carry the dead body to the graveyard, if the deceased is a pious person, he/she requests them to carry him/her as fast as they can and if the deceased is a wrong-doer, he/she curses the wretchedness in store for him/her and asks where he/she is being led to. The Holy Prophet

is also reported to have said that except human beings everything else hears the cries of the dead body. If a person were to hear the cries of the dead body, they would faint. The interval between death and the Day of Resurrection is called Barzakh.

2- Doomsday:

On the Day of Qiyamah, the feet of the human being will not be able to move till he/she is questioned about five matters (and gives a reasonable account):
1. On what they spent their life,
2. In what pursuits they passed their youth,
3. From where did they earn wealth,
4. On what they spent it,
5. How much they acted upon the knowledge they required.

Almighty Allah states in the Holy Qur’aan:
I swear by the Day of Resurrection; and I swear by the self reproaching person (a believer.does man (a disbeliver) think that We shall not assemble his bones? Yes, we are able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers. Nay! man denies reserruction and Reckoning. So he desires to continue commiting sins. He asks: "When will be this Day of Resurrection? So, when the sight is dazed, and the moon will be eclipsed, and sun and moon are united(by going one into the other or folded up or deprived of their light etc). On that day man will cry: Where (is the refuge) to flee!" No! there is no refuge! Unto your Lord alone will be the place of rest that Day. On that day man will be informed of what he sent forward (of his eivil or good deeds), and what he left behind (of his good or evil traditions). Nay! Man will be a witness against himself [as his body parts (skin, hands, legs etc.) will speak about his deeds] Though he may put forth his excuses (to cover his evil deeds). (Surah Al-Qiyamah:1-15)

source: http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/life.html

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Darren,

What is the difference between Hell and your 'Lake Of Fire'?

 

[winner08]

Darren,

What is the difference between Hell and your 'Lake Of Fire'?

Great question Nick

1. I don't believe in a place called hell were we are to burn forever and ever.
2. LOF is where we will be purged of our carnality. Our human nature. the time that is actually spent in the lake of fire is according to your heart. It's describe in the Scriptres as purifing. Like when you fire a pice of pottery. It burns out all the junk and what you have left is pure. One can not enter the Kingdom if one is made of flesh and blood. Only when we are in the imaage of God (Spirit) we will be allowed into the Kingdom.

Does this help?

Darren

PS good to hear from you.

 

[winner08]

Well, Darren, the Islamic view is different. As Muslims, we believe that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. He was rather raised to heaven. We believe that Jesus peace be upon him will be descended to earth in the last days as our prophet Muhamed peace be upon him told us. The period of Jesus reign will be very pleasant and blessed:



source: Jesus A.S. in Islam



Concerning how our judgement would pass, these things have been explained by the Quran, and the Prophet's sayings. It goes through stages:
1- the life in the grave, which constitutes the stage of movement from death to doomsday.


2- Doomsday: [/i][/b]

source: http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/life.html

Sorry D.B. I just can't go there. the Quran seems to be taking the spiritual and turning into the physical. Jesus said my word are Spirit and life the things I teach you is Spiritual. Jesus was not concern with the physical as much as the spiritual.

Peace to you,

Darren

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Darren,

So the only difference between Hell and your Lake of Fire is that one is permanent and the other is temorary? Then you and I believe in the same thing -- a temporary Hell.

You said,

"...good to hear from you."

 

[winner08]

Darren,

So the only difference between Hell and your Lake of Fire is that one is permanent and the other is temorary? Then you and I believe in the same thing -- a temporary Hell.

You said,

"...good to hear from you."

NO NIck the difference between Hell and the Lake of fire if this
They are the same thing Hell is the lake of fire. In Jesus teaching Of the lake of fire He uses the word Gahenna meaning the fire of the valley of Hinnom If you were to look up Hell in the /concordent you will see that hell is translated 3 different ;ways
1 Sheol
2 hades
3Gennha

Sheol and hades basically meand the same- The state of the dead unprecievable.
Gehenna the fire that burns in the valley of Hinnom

See, Simply