Can We Call This Progress?

[Pathless]

I point out an error in your argument and I have to go live in a cave?

Yes, Tao. Go gnaw on a twig while your at it.



Dogbrain, I think that there is some wiggle room between the two extremes of accepting all technology as a given (which we could not possibly live without, is that it?) and living the life of a forsaken bum tossed into a thunderstorm. Surely we're a bit more resourceful folk than all that.

 

[Dogbrain]

Dogbrain, I think that there is some wiggle room between the two extremes of accepting all technology as a given (which we could not possibly live without, is that it?) and living the life of a forsaken bum tossed into a thunderstorm. Surely we're a bit more resourceful folk than all that.

Nice to see that everyone is intentionally ignoring what I have written.

I have been talking about the fundamentally STUPID idea that "returning" to where we came from, culturally, is some kind of innate good, to be yearned for.

I've studied enough history to know I do not want to live in the past. Not all the changes we have undergone are for the best, but I would rather live in this era, honestly admitting that there really IS something like "progress" and that progress can be a good thing instead of playing at the hypocrisy of internet luddism.

 

[Pathless]

Nice to see that everyone is intentionally ignoring what I have written.

What, specifically, are you referring to? What specific contribution of yours has been "intentionally ignored" in this thread?

I have been talking about the fundamentally STUPID idea that "returning" to where we came from, culturally, is some kind of innate good, to be yearned for.[

I've studied enough history to know I do not want to live in the past. Not all the changes we have undergone are for the best, but I would rather live in this era, honestly admitting that there really IS something like "progress" and that progress can be a good thing instead of playing at the hypocrisy of internet luddism.

I don't know that anyone here is saying that it's possible to return to the past. I specifically have written that I believe that

we will have the opportunity to reconceptualize the way we live; which is not to say that we are going to go back to being hunter-gatherers--population densities are too high and "resources" too scarce for that lifestyle at the moment--but if we are smart, we will begin to back towards the more simple technologies of a bygone era: pre-industrial, pre-homogenized globalization, pre-mass-production. Simple machines have the advantage of being easier to upkeep than more complex ones, and being less prone to breakdown.

Technological progress, to me, has gone too far. It has gotten to the point where it is simply moving forward of its own inertia, with far too many human beings all too willing to accept new technologies without critiques, and helping to drive it along. While I will concede that mechanical technologies seem to be convenient, I do believe that they also have many negative qualities and effects which we will be living with far into the future. Even on a day-to-day basis, accepted technologies like television, automobiles, washing machines, dishwashers, microwaves, and yes, computers (call me a hypocrite if you want) are not entirely the conveniences that we often take them to be.

We could all get along with much less, when it comes down to it; however society is set up in such a technology-intensive way, and we are all so dependent and embedded in technological society, that it is difficult to extricate ourselves from all of these unnecessary conveniences--some of which, like automobiles and computers, we have become dependent on. Ending the cycle and culture of technological dependency and addiction is a program that we need to engage in on a public level, with an intense amount of civic engagement.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, or if it does that it will be easy. It will not and cannot be easy. I do think it is necessary at least to attempt to disengage from this idea of mechanical, linear, top-down "progress," because it is not taking us towards a more beautiful, fulfililng, sustainable, and peaceful way to live. There seems to be no goal beyond developing more technology and products simply for the sake of calling it "progress." It doesn't get us anywhere useful or desirable. Instead, it actually degrades our quality of life and the ability of the Earth to support all kinds of life.

That's not progress, that's destruction.

 

[wil]

You could build a really deluxe mud hut these days. I guess it depends on the location. I've seen some really nice teepees. That might be a better alternative, although just a nicely apportioned shack is often the most economical approach.

Who hasn't wanked off over Walden? I've got my little self-sufficient dream too. Just gotta talk my wife into it.

Chris

yurts are quite nice...

I've spent my time on the streets, the beach, the jungle, the woods. Played some self sufficiency games for months at a time, not years, not yet. There exists a real beauty in no mortgage, no car payment, no phone bill, no insurance... its easier in temperate climates...during the snowfall living outside my and my buddies used to fight over Butch, the Saint Bernard, oh the coldest of nights were warm with Butch by your side... of course if the snow fell and covered you it was much warmer than a clear night too. I've got memories of getting in the surf post hurricane that destroyed my makeshift shelter, as that was the warmest place to be... I never stayed in a hostel or homeless shelter, never went to the soup kitchen... but I've got plenty of life left...soon as the kids head to college I may head back to the woods...or the street.