Why did Jesus teach in parables??

[winner08]

Remember that Jesus said what he did after the Parable of the Sower which describes how the word is lost. The story of the tower of Babel illustrates the necessary results of misunderstanding as well.

I maintain it is better for most to not understand at all then acquiring understanding and then losing it since it is much more difficult to regain.

Jesus IMO is just showing his awareness of the human condition that includes people within the world becoming aware that they are connected to something not of the world. The parable furthers this growing awareness without inviting all sorts of solidified "interpretations" in others that just create unnecessary obstacles for the true seeker.

Sorry Nick but you are relating the Parable to the physical or (literal) No All parables Spiritual Do you really think for one min. Jesus cares about your preception of Him. That Jesus cares that you know He understands what the world is and will be? Or do you think Jesus cares about your spirit your salvation the spiritual side of you? Come on Nick give Jesus a little more credit. Jesus don't care ;if you understand that He understand about His awareness of the human condition. Jeus came into to this world for one purpose that is to SAVE. Jesus said Himself MY Words ARE SPIRIT. If you can understand what that actually means it will change your whole understanding of Jesus teachings

No offence Nick.

 

[Nick_A]

Winner

Look I understand Yall are trying ti make a point. What it is I don't know.
Listen I am going to give you a scripture that proves that Jesus taught in parables because it was not for the multitudes to understand, Even the disciples didn't understand Jesus's parables.

If no one understands what is the purpose of teaching with parables? It doesn't make any sense to do it. Under such circumstances it is understandable to assert that jesus was a BS artist much like those of today who say nothing but people non the less believe because of style rather than substance.

 

[winner08]

Winner



If no one understands what is the purpose of teaching with parables? It doesn't make any sense to do it. Under such circumstances it is understandable to assert that jesus was a BS artist much like those of today who say nothing but people non the less believe because of style rather than substance.

The purpose was and Jesus said this Himself not in these word because I don't know where the scripture is but i will fine it for you. Jesus said that when He is gone and the comforter is sent (Holy Spirit) That they would understand everything that Jesus taught. Maby this way they would know that Jesus was the Son of God.
Liste Nick When I first started studing this (parables) I said just what you said WHY. Time and Time again I had to come back to the conclusin that and Jesus even ssaid it wasn't ment for the masses to understand. It was HIDEN from them. I know the Lord reveils things a little at the time and He has a time for everything under the sun. So I guess at that time it was not for them to know. Even today just by the response on this thread many do not understand. Most if not all parables are a teaching tool on spiritual matters not physical or literal. If you read the sower again keeping in mine that all the physcial thing are methaphores for spiritual thing. Go ahead and do it read it over again and keep in mine that it is a spiritual teaching. I mean why would Jesus teach about the sower and seeds weeds sun stone and rocks literal? I think they famers were are ready quite knowledgable on planting and growing things they did'nt ned any help from Jesus. Jesus word are spirit and life. Not physical and death.

 

[winner08]

Nick i just came across this Scripture of Jesus explaination of Why He taught in parables.

Mark 4:10-11 and when He was alone, they that were about Him with the 12 asked of Him the parables. And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystries of the Kingdom of God, but unto them THAT ARE WITHOUT ALL THESE THING ARE DONE IN PARABLES.

Without what? that's the question? whatever it is that the multitudes were without is the reason why they didn't understand.

Darren

 

[Dream]

'those without' is just Old English for those outside. The Revised Standard Version uses: Mark 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables; So those outside of something. Maybe he means those outside of his circle of friends? They got to hear the explanation but the other people didn't.

 

[Nick_A]

Nick i just came across this Scripture of Jesus explaination of Why He taught in parables.

Mark 4:10-11 and when He was alone, they that were about Him with the 12 asked of Him the parables. And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystries of the Kingdom of God, but unto them THAT ARE WITHOUT ALL THESE THING ARE DONE IN PARABLES.

Without what? that's the question? whatever it is that the multitudes were without is the reason why they didn't understand.

Darren

Consider Mark 4 as a whole beginning with the parable of the sower. Evidently there is a distinction between literal understanding and psychological understanding. This is why the Word often becomes lost. New eyes and ears do not refer to literal understanding but to psychological understanding. Parables themselves are designed to gradually further psychological understanding within a deeper quality of mind than literal understanding. The presence of the Holy Spirit furthers psychological understanding which is why it leads to freedom rather than secular BS.

The multitudes are fixated with literal understanding and Jesus knows that understanding the Word is psychological understanding. The parable confuses literal understaning long enough so that the Word it contains can touch us psychologically even though unaware of it. The results can surface much later as an objective religious experience.

 

[Dream]

The multitudes are fixated with literal understanding and Jesus knows that understanding the Word is psychological understanding. The parable confuses literal understaning long enough so that the Word it contains can touch us psychologically even though unaware of it.

That is a testable mental process. It reminds me of how nobody used to claim they had seen aliens until the movie The Deadly Mantis and other sci-fi movies came out. Suddenly there appears a big Area51 culture, and aliens that look surprisingly like --- Big Bugs!

 

[mee]

Jesus told his disciples: "To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted


Quoting Isaiah, he added: "‘For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them.’ However, happy are your eyes because they behold, and your ears because they hear

.Matthew 13:10-16; Mark 4:11-13.

 

[winner08]

I had a hard time understanding whay Jesus would teach in parables. Why make an already confusing teaching ever harder to understand?

1 cor 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise ofr this world, God has chosen the weak things of this world to confound the mighty.

Having them(the masses) blind serves a purplse if they were not blind they would not need for healing first you must be blind you must be humbled it is all a part of the process. One has to be blinded before he can see the truth. (not literal blinded) but the turth keep from them. You probable heard of God calling His people out of Babaloyn. It just a metaphore for calling His people out of the orginzed religions. Man made doctrine.

1cor 11:19 KJV for there must be heresies among you that they which are approved may be made mainfest among you.
(rsv) for there must be fractions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be reconized.

 

[winner08]

'those without' is just Old English for those outside. The Revised Standard Version uses: Mark 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables; So those outside of something. Maybe he means those outside of his circle of friends? They got to hear the explanation but the other people didn't.

I will tell you this and this if a fact even the disciples did't understand Jesus parables. On every occassion when Jesus taught(parables) the disciples always came back to Him they would ask what did you mean by that or something along them lines.

 

[Dream]

Its true, they did; however his disciples weren't master scholars or community leaders or judges. That's important, because the leadership are invested with measures of the holy spirit -- the same spirit of wisdom that had been put on Moses.(Num 11:25) That is another reason that they were likely to have understood Jesus' parables. What they wouldn't have liked is that Jesus would not come out and make his claim to be king. (He constantly was telling people to keep that a secret.) They knew his parables were directed against them, and that didn't sit well with them either. The common people didn't understand the parables, but they weren't the ones being judged.

 

[winner08]

Dream: even the most smartest people of Jesus's time didn't understand These are the one who were responsible for the people keeping the Law of Moses. The Scribs and Pharises The Sandhedrin. Jesus told them that they understood the letter of the law(the physical) but they did not know the true meaning of the law(the spiritual side). So where does that leave you?

1cor1:27 But God hathj chosen the FOOLISH THINGS of the world to CONFOUND THE WISE. Gods chose the WEAK THINGS of this world to confound the MIGHTY.

That's all that needs to be said. It's right if front of you just read it for what is say if you do that ;you will see that many were called to listen to Jesus teach(parables). But ONLY A FEW were chosen to UNDERSTAND. That;s when and only when Jesus decied to let them understand. Just as in tody's age only the people God chose to understand His word are allowed to understand. If everybody understood His words why would we need a Saviour? We would know what to do and do it But the Lord said I come not to judge the world but to SAVE the world.

 

[winner08]

Its true, they did; however his disciples weren't master scholars or community leaders or judges. That's important, because the leadership are invested with measures of the holy spirit -- the same spirit of wisdom that had been put on Moses.(Num 11:25) That is another reason that they were likely to have understood Jesus' parables. What they wouldn't have liked is that Jesus would not come out and make his claim to be king. (He constantly was telling people to keep that a secret.) They knew his parables were directed against them, and that didn't sit well with them either. The common people didn't understand the parables, but they weren't the ones being judged.

No the disciples weren't master scholars and yes there were invested with a measure of the Holy Spirit. We all are How else do you think that we are alive. God created man out of the dust and then breath live into the man and man became a LIVING SOUL. So we all are imparted with a mesure of the Holy Spirit.

Where do you get that the parables were about Jesus? All parable are about the exact same thin. Jesus HIMSELF said if you would but understand one parables you would understand all. What were the parables about? The sower and the seed (sower) man (seed) God's word.
The musterd seed. it starts off being the smallest seed(Gods word) in you then it becomes so big that the birds nest in it.
the prodical son returns. One of God's sheep(people) strays goes off on his own but after time he comes back to his Father(God).
These are but just 3 of many and all three speak about the spiritual meanings not the physical or to be taken literal.
All parables speak of or about God's word, the Kingdom of God which is inside of us.

The parables has NOTHING to do what what you said. it is totally
UNscripture. Not one scripture can you find that will back what you said. I just gave you 3 scripture that proves that Jesus parables were about the kingdom of God and God's word.

 

[leastone]

The parable confuses literal understaning long enough so that the Word it contains can touch us psychologically even though unaware of it. The results can surface much later as an objective religious experience.

I believe this to be a sound insight.

The use of parables should also be considered along with the following statements:

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth[.]
Joh 3:12; 16:12, 13

With regards his messages and teachings, Jesus distinguishes between "earthly things," that is, things concerning our life here on the planet, and "heavenly things," that is, spiritual realities that govern the life of heaven, or God's "kingdom."

He says, then, even to those who had been with Him for years: "I have many more things to say to you (about heavenly things) --- but you cannot bear them now."

While it is true that parables were not easily understood, even by those who were close; who were not "outside;" who had been "given to know the secrets of heaven," ----they were by no means intended to purposefully exclude everybody who were baffled by them (from knowing heaven), except the chosen few who were ready "to bear" their hidden, spiritual meaning.

When I tell a child one horse is not enough to draw a cart made for two, and that we need two times, or twice, as many horses (2x1); or that a charriot designed for four horses would require four times (4x1) as many horses as the one we have, the foundation is being laid for his later grasping of mathematical concepts, such as fractions: one of two being a(n) half (1/2), and a quarter (1/4) being one divided by four.

Still later in life, he might desire to own a Mustang, because he understands the "horsepower" of its engine.

Yet later still, he might perceive that the white horse spoken of in Revelations, whose rider is the Word of God, could not be a literal horse, since outside space and time heavenly things (spiritual meanings, realities) could only take on the appearances of (familiar) earthly things that they are representatives of, so that those internal, spiritual meanings hidden in the external, literal sense, can be revealed to those who can "bear" it.

The Spirit gives life; the letter (alone) always works death, so that ears cannot hear, and eyes not see.

Respectfully,

Learner

 

[winner08]

I believe this to be a sound insight.

The use of parables should also be considered along with the following statements:





With regards his messages and teachings, Jesus distinguishes between "earthly things," that is, things concerning our life here on the planet, and "heavenly things," that is, spiritual realities that govern the life of heaven, or God's "kingdom."

He says, then, even to those who had been with Him for years: "I have many more things to say to you (about heavenly things) --- but you cannot bear them now."

While it is true that parables were not easily understood, even by those who were close; who were not "outside;" who had been "given to know the secrets of heaven," ----they were by no means intended to purposefully exclude everybody who were baffled by them (from knowing heaven), except the chosen few who were ready "to bear" their hidden, spiritual meaning.

When I tell a child one horse is not enough to draw a cart made for two, and that we need two times, or twice, as many horses (2x1); or that a charriot designed for four horses would require four times (4x1) as many horses as the one we have, the foundation is being laid for his later grasping of mathematical concepts, such as fractions: one of two being a(n) half (1/2), and a quarter (1/4) being one divided by four.

Still later in life, he might desire to own a Mustang, because he understands the "horsepower" of its engine.

Yet later still, he might perceive that the white horse spoken of in Revelations, whose rider is the Word of God, could not be a literal horse, since outside space and time heavenly things (spiritual meanings, realities) could only take on the appearances of (familiar) earthly things that they are representatives of, so that those internal, spiritual meanings hidden in the external, literal sense, can be revealed to those who can "bear" it.

The Spirit gives life; the letter (alone) always works death, so that ears cannot hear, and eyes not see.

Respectfully,

Learner

Learner: That was the most sound minded reply that I have gotten cocerning why Jesus used parables.

But I have to strongly disagree with you concernong the statement you made: Jesus did not mean to exclude anyone on purpose. Here is the proof right from Jesus's own mouth.
It is given to you to understand The mystries of the Kingdom of Heaven, To them it is NOT given to understand. it was NOT GIVEN.
Jesus purposefully excluded the multitudes from knowing.

1cor1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty.

Having ;the multitudes blind serves a major purpose in God's plan for mankind. One must be sick(spiritual) before one can be healed(saved). One must not have understanding before one can understand. One must be blind before he can see. One must be humbled. IN keeping the people blinded to the truth when they do learn the truth they will be humbled.
One can not really appreciate the good things in life if one had not had the bad thing in ones life. Of course these are my words not Scripture.

But here are a scriptures to help you understand why the multitudes had to be blinded.
1 cor11:19 for there must be heresies among you that they which are approved may be mainfest among you (KJV)
(NASB) for there must also be fraction among you so that those who are approved may become evident among you.
(RSV) For there must be fractions among you in order that those who are genuine among you mey be reconized.

I do agree that even though the disciples did not understand at the time, the Lord told them that they would remember and understand all things which He taught. when they recieved the Holy Spirit. So when you say one might hear a parable and not understand, but latter in life it could come back on you and you will remember and finnally understand it.

Thanks for a great reply.

 

[Dream]

Dream: even the most smartest people of Jesus's time didn't understand These are the one who were responsible for the people keeping the Law of Moses. The Scribs and Pharises The Sandhedrin. Jesus told them that they understood the letter of the law(the physical) but they did not know the true meaning of the law(the spiritual side).

That isn't about the parables and it was in Romans 7. I think I've agreed more than you're letting on.

So where does that leave you?

That's all that needs to be said. It's right if front of you just read it for what is say if you do that ;you will see that many were called to listen to Jesus teach(parables). But ONLY A FEW were chosen to UNDERSTAND. That;s when and only when Jesus decied to let them understand. Just as in tody's age only the people God chose to understand His word are allowed to understand.

Everything I've said was in agreement with the verse about the foolish and wise. Can you be specific?

No the disciples weren't master scholars and yes there were invested with a measure of the Holy Spirit. We all are How else do you think that we are alive. God created man out of the dust and then breath live into the man and man became a LIVING SOUL. So we all are imparted with a mesure of the Holy Spirit.

I think we're talking about more of the same things than you think.

The people were alive and so had spirit but not the specific breath given to Israel's elders. There was a measure of the spirit given to all Israel to hear with, however when it came to this, Jesus had some things to say. It didn't mean what everybody had thought before he spoke about it. In fact, the special breath given to the leaders could be taken away, and it was impossible to say who was an Israelite based upon Patriarchy alone:

Jesus said 'He that has ears to hear let him hear' (Luke8:8), which is a change from the way things were done before him. When Jesus said "He that has ears to hear" he reminds Israel of the hearing order. In the wilderness, all of Israel was ordered to hear in the great "Hear Oh Israel" passages.(Deut 5,6,9) Israel is ordered to hear, an act of obedience. Jesus is saying effectively "If you're of Israel, then hear." By saying this Jesus announced that not everyone in Israel was spiritually an Israelite; since in Deuteronomy an Israelite is able to hear spiritual things. If they're weren't able then there wouldn't have been a commandment to hear in Deuteronomy. This was a big change in how people thought things were done. Until that time, you could be born into it. Paul probably thought about this when he said "But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,"(Rom 9:6) Jesus said many other related things, like "Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left."(Matt 24:40)

Where do you get that the parables were about Jesus?...All parables speak of or about God's word, the Kingdom of God which is inside of us.

I agreed that the parables were about that, and check my post again if you'd like. Sorry about that misunderstanding.

 

[leastone]

Dear Dream,

I found this contribution very interesting and educational (for me):

When Jesus said "He that has ears to hear" he reminds Israel of the hearing order. In the wilderness, all of Israel was ordered to hear in the great "Hear Oh Israel" passages.(Deut 5,6,9) Israel is ordered to hear, an act of obedience. Jesus is saying effectively "If you're of Israel, then hear."

Thanks.

Dear Winner,

I understand the point you are making, and it is true as far as it is the Divine modus operandi --- a method serving God's greater plan, as you put it.

I intended to say that, given that greater scheme of things, parables and mysteries of the kingdom were not designed to deliberately permanently shut out all who could not grasp the basics, since mankind was created with the purpose of populating heaven --- (hopefully all, eventually, and not just the "few").

Thanks for the kind comment and generous spirit of your response.

Easy with the 'medicine', and be a Winner, sir!

Respectfully,

Learner

 

[Thomas]

Hi Darren —

Following your own argument, that if Jesus meant His parables not to be understood, then no-one understands what Jesus taught ... not even you, so you can't really make any definite statement, can you?

As Jesus did explain His parables to the Twelve, then only they understood, and only later did they fully understand ... this is what a careful reading of John and Acts tells us ...

So the answer to your question is, only by receiving the teaching from an authentic successor of the apostles, have you any chance of understanding what Jesus taught.

So you're saying it's the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Church.

Thomas

 

[Dream]

So the answer to your question is, only by receiving the teaching from an authentic successor of the apostles, have you any chance of understanding what Jesus taught.

So you're saying it's the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Church.

I think that members of the RC and EOC are in similar circumstances with members of other Christian churches and also with unorganized Christians as well as those who don't know they are Christians. That is the recognization of the bread and wine, the understanding that there is one body with many members not of any man's choosing, and "The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit."

 

[Thomas]

I think that members of the RC and EOC are in similar circumstances with members of other Christian churches and also with unorganized Christians as well as those who don't know they are Christians.

OK.

That is the recognization of the bread and wine, the understanding that there is one body with many members not of any man's choosing...

Don't understand what you mean by 'not of any man's choosing' ...

and "The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit."

Well it's no use quoting Scripture if one doesn't understand it, and that's Darren's point ...

... my point is that either Christ set out to teach something no-one could understand, and thus utterly waste his own and everyone else's time ... or he did impart understanding to those He had called, which is pretty much what Scripture says:

John 14:26
"But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you."

John 15:26
"But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me."

Acts 1:8
"But you shall receive the power of the Holy Ghost coming upon you, and you shall be witnesses unto me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and even to the uttermost part of the earth."

Acts 2:1-4
"And when the days of the Pentecost were accomplished, they were all together in one place: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty wind coming, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them parted tongues as it were of fire, and it sat upon every one of them: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost gave them to speak."

And they instructed their successors ...

Thomas