Which God and where is he?

chakraman said:
doulble post

edit: ciel, this is a favourite passage of mine on love, i hope you will take the time to read it and perhaps tell me what you think, peace

Freedom From the Known - J. Krishnamurti Online
Click to expand...

I know what love is no doubt. But yes there is also sexual love. Its an energy as well . When its an expression of caring gentle ect its good. When its just for physical pleasure it means nothing and when its harmful it opposes god. god is love. But yes sex is the key to creation and when you are with the right person its love. The thing is you can be with those who are expressing it in a loving way which is a form of a sexual battle
but each of us only has one true opposite. Love is what we all are literally. You feel it with your body but on what I call a senses level. However if the essence were to literally flow into your body, your soul you would definately recognize it which means everyone knows really what it is. If you cannot relate to a person in that way the loving way even if they are not your actual other half you shouldnt be with them.
 
donnann said:
I know what love is no doubt. But yes there is also sexual love. Its an energy as well . When its an expression of caring gentle ect its good. When its just for physical pleasure it means nothing and when its harmful it opposes god. god is love. But yes sex is the key to creation and when you are with the right person its love. The thing is you can be with those who are expressing it in a loving way which is a form of a sexual battle
but each of us only has one true opposite. Love is what we all are literally. You feel it with your body but on what I call a senses level. However if the essence were to literally flow into your body, your soul you would definately recognize it which means everyone knows really what it is. If you cannot relate to a person in that way the loving way even if they are not your actual other half you shouldnt be with them.
Click to expand...

Denying sex is also divine is childish, and I do not promote running around having sex with anyone and everyone but people do it because they are looking for that match.
 
donnann said:
Denying sex is also divine is childish, and I do not promote running around having sex with anyone and everyone but people do it because they are looking for that match.
Click to expand...
One more point just like having a child sexual spirit also comes from the creator(s)
 
Gatekeeper said:
You're correct, we cannot force behavior or make others change, but I think we can be a light to others, showing and sharing love with them, and much like a pebble dropped in a pond, the ripples will affect those they touch. We can only change ourselves, but our lives affect the lives of others, so perhaps by changing self, we ultimately encourage change in others, if only in those we are close to.
Click to expand...
I don't know if I was actually trying to make that point, it was more of a sincerer question. But I still agree with you in this post. Also excellent vid on love.

I also want to take time and apologise to chakraman, in my previous post I stated that he wished for egolessness and I didn't agree with that. After reading his reply to ciel_perdy it appears I was also sloppy in reading his posts. I admit I have skipped a bit through some texts here.

EDIT: donnann, I just checked and there is a EDIT button if you forget to write or need to correct something. Posting several times in a row is considered rude in a lot on a lot of sites.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
I don't know if I was actually trying to make that point, it was more of a sincerer question. But I still agree with you in this post. Also excellent vid on love.

I also want to take time and apologise to chakraman, in my previous post I stated that he wished for egolessness and I didn't agree with that. After reading his reply to ciel_perdy it appears I was also sloppy in reading his posts. I admit I have skipped a bit through some texts here.

EDIT: donnann, I just checked and there is a EDIT button if you forget to write or need to correct something. Posting several times in a row is considered rude in a lot on a lot of sites.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the heads up.
 
ciel_perdy said:
Sure, plenty of people do die from lack of resources.

Millions are facing . . .

Where is God for them, you ask? Where are you for them?

We are God's hands, God's eyes, God's mouth. It's easy to blame God and not take on repsonsibility for these things ourselves.
Click to expand...
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

We are spirit souls in the material world.
After much "sufferring (& BTW, fleeting enjoyment too)" we seek the "permanent/un-changing/eternal" ---alas, that final refuge is the personage of God's association.

In the mean time we seek refuge elsewhere in the material world. Just as being lost in an ocean with a homing devise, are coordinates are our own soul-being.

The nucleus of that indivisable individual 'own soul-being' is called "Param-atma (Paramount Soul/Supreme soul)" ---it is the localised part and parcel of God's Life Energy extended to our own soul-being.

"We are spirit soul" That spirit soul is a part of the Great soul ---the fact that the Great soul extends into the nucleus of each speck of creation ---our souls are such indivisable individual specks (of Spirit-Soul, aka, "sat-chit-anada").

But now we are in the material cosmos (aka, the "created-maintained-destroyed cycle"). ---Read talking points from classical Hindu metaphysics ---{and then see my recent realisation about Paramatma}:

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

"Brahman + Paramatma + Bhagavan"

According to scripture God exists in three aspects ---Here within this material world (material energy = creation-maintainance-destruction ~aka, material 'Elements' [earth, H2O, etc] in flux via the "3-Modes": passion-goodness-ignorance druing the passage of 'Time' = God's 'External energy').

This material world is composed of Three Main Ingredients --these 3 are God entoto --and we individual spirit souls, and, all material atom are roaming in the darkness of time seeking return to Heaven beyond this material worlds, to re-access face-to-face interpersonal reciropal pastimes with God in Heaven:

1 Brahman = The Void

2 Paramatma = The Spirit-force nucleus life-force of all animate & inanimate entities (ie: atoms, and, Souls).

3 Bhagavan = The personage of Godhead ---the unlimited reservior of his own name, fame, form, personality, paraphenalia, entourage and pastimes that are Transcendent to the rules/laws/functioning/control of 'material energy' and time-creation-maintainance-destruction.

Thus, According to scripture, 'Paramatma' , [para (paramount) + atma (soul)] is God's plenary expansion of His own 'Internal energy' here within this material world in the form of:
a] Material Elements (ie: atoms), and,
b] Conscious Living Spirit-Souls . . . here, taking repeted birth(s) in material bodies.

Re-Cap:
Material Energy = created-maintained-destroyed during time.
Spiritual Energy = eternal-conscious-blissful beyond influence of time.
The individual Soul = Conscious Life-Force that animates all species of material bodies.
God = The supreme personality of Godhead with his own 'self-inherited birthright' of being the source of Paramatma (localised presence of 'spirit' Life-Force of all individual souls and the nuclear 'material' force at the center of every atom)

First lesson of spiritual life:
"We are spirit souls in the material body"
IMO, this lesson is lost to material beings . . . and so, this is the prime lesson taught to humanity by the mysteries of Jesus Christ's earthly pastimes 2,011 years ago.

So, the trinity of God in Hindu metapyshics refers to the actual mechanics of God's energies and how they expand to form the Material Cosmos.

practicing my succinctness,
Bhaktajan

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

In the material world "PARAM-ATMA" exists inside the heart of all living beings .

In the spiritual Kingdom of God (out side the material world) "Paramatma" lives out side of our spirit "sat-chit-anada" self.

That is when we get face time with the coolest auto-crat.
 
bhaktajan said:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

We are spirit souls in the material world.
After much "sufferring (& BTW, fleeting enjoyment too)" we seek the "permanent/un-changing/eternal" ---alas, that final refuge is the personage of God's association.

In the mean time we seek refuge elsewhere in the material world. Just as being lost in an ocean with a homing devise, are coordinates are our own soul-being.

The nucleus of that indivisable individual 'own soul-being' is called "Param-atma (Paramount Soul/Supreme soul)" ---it is the localised part and parcel of God's Life Energy extended to our own soul-being.

"We are spirit soul" That spirit soul is a part of the Great soul ---the fact that the Great soul extends into the nucleus of each speck of creation ---our souls are such indivisable individual specks (of Spirit-Soul, aka, "sat-chit-anada").

But now we are in the material cosmos (aka, the "created-maintained-destroyed cycle"). ---Read talking points from classical Hindu metaphysics ---{and then see my recent realisation about Paramatma}:

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

"Brahman + Paramatma + Bhagavan"

According to scripture God exists in three aspects ---Here within this material world(material energy = creation-maintainance-destruction ~aka, material 'Elements' [earth, H2O, etc] in flux via the "3-Modes": passion-goodness-ignorance druing the passage of 'Time' = God's 'External energy').

This material world is composed of Three Main Ingredients --these 3 are God entoto --and we individual spirit souls, and, all material atom are roaming in the darkness of time seeking return to Heaven beyond this material worlds, to re-access face-to-face interpersonal reciropal pastimes with God in Heaven:

1 Brahman = The Void

2 Paramatma = The Spirit-force nucleus life-force of all animate & inanimate entities (ie: atoms, and, Souls).

3 Bhagavan = The personage of Godhead ---the unlimited reservior of his own name, fame, form, personality, paraphenalia, entourage and pastimes that are Transcendent to the rules/laws/functioning/control of 'material energy' and time-creation-maintainance-destruction.

Thus, According to scripture, 'Paramatma' , [para (paramount) + atma (soul)] is God's plenary expansion of His own 'Internal energy' here within this material world in the form of:
a] Material Elements (ie: atoms), and,
b] Conscious Living Spirit-Souls . . . here, taking repeted birth(s) in material bodies.

Re-Cap:
Material Energy = created-maintained-destroyed during time.
Spiritual Energy = eternal-conscious-blissful beyond influence of time.
The individual Soul = Conscious Life-Force that animates all species of material bodies.
God = The supreme personality of Godhead with his own 'self-inherited birthright' of being the source of Paramatma (localised presence of 'spirit' Life-Force of all individual souls and the nuclear 'material' force at the center of every atom)

First lesson of spiritual life:
"We are spirit souls in the material body"
IMO, this lesson is lost to material beings . . . and so, this is the prime lesson taught to humanity by the mysteries of Jesus Christ's earthly pastimes 2,011 years ago.

So, the trinity of God in Hindu metapyshics refers to the actual mechanics of God's energies and how they expand to form the Material Cosmos.

practicing my succinctness,
Bhaktajan

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

In the material world "PARAM-ATMA" exists inside the heart of all living beings .

In the spiritual Kingdom of God (out side the material world) "Paramatma" lives out side of our spirit "sat-chit-anada" self.

That is when we get face time with the coolest auto-crat.
Click to expand...

Please do not forget about the female half aka countepart. I hope this doesnt embarrss you but to explain in a scientific way I have to address this issue. What wasnt known is that all women have fe-sperm. There is Man then there is wo-man. There is sperm then there is fe-sperm. Its the union thing. Each body has a function. The uterus is like the powerhouse for this union and there is a gland that is within the man that has to do with the exchange of energy or as I call it life flow between the two. So as you can see its always two who are also one that are opposites. Sperm and fesperm(no man ever has this) unite to create a union and a flow of life energy between the two. This also works on a psychological level as well. Psychological is consciousness which is referred to as spirit. Union with the spirit is whole body consciousness. Men should not be circumscised for it to function properly and there is now concrete medical and scientific information to back this up. I hope that I did this in a scientific way as to not make anyone feel uncomfortable. Eggs are only for children...be fruitful and multiply...but the male and female oneness even though two the two sperms isnt for children it keeps the two one and that is infinite life flow processes. Its all about the knowledge.
 
donnann said:
Please do not forget about the female half aka countepart.
Click to expand...

Krishna's eternal consort is Radha.
Radharani is hladini sakti. She is Madana-mohana-Mohini, who attracts the senses of Madana-Mohan, Krsna. Krsna always thinks of Radharani. He gets so much pleasure when He unites with Radha, which He cannot get elsewhere.

Before even saying Krishna's name, we must say "Shree".
Before we Krishna's name, We say, "Hare" ---we must invoke the benediction of Krishna's eternal consort is Radha.

Visnu's wife Lakshmi, is actually Krishna's eternal consort is Radha.
As she accompanies her husband. So that same can be said for Parvati, wife of Shiva ---in all cases we must get the concessions form Radha before getting the audience of the Lord.

Why Krsna Became Gauranga Mahaprabhu
". . .Radha is Krishna's Yoga-maya, or "internal energy" of the Lord, her activities are so amazing and wonderful.

Even sometimes it becomes very difficult on the part of Krsna to understand them! What to speak of us, even Krsna becomes amazed!

Radharani is hladini sakti. She is Madana-mohana-Mohini (who attracts the senses of Madana-Mohan) Krishna.

Krishna always thinks of Radharani. He gets so much pleasure when He unites with Radha, which He cannot get elsewhere . . . "
 
Radha, The Personification of Bhakti

Radha is the embodiment of Mahabhava. The word Radha etymologically means a devotee. Radha is the Chief of Krishna's sweethearts.

Radha, The Personification of Bhakti

Here is a painting of Radha & Krishna:


0.jpg
 
bhaktajan said:
Krishna's eternal consort is Radha.
Radharani is hladini sakti. She is Madana-mohana-Mohini, who attracts the senses of Madana-Mohan, Krsna. Krsna always thinks of Radharani. He gets so much pleasure when He unites with Radha, which He cannot get elsewhere.

Before even saying Krishna's name, we must say "Shree".
Before we Krishna's name, We say, "Hare" ---we must invoke the benediction of Krishna's eternal consort is Radha.

Visnu's wife Lakshmi, is actually Krishna's eternal consort is Radha.
As she accompanies her husband. So that same can be said for Parvati, wife of Shiva ---in all cases we must get the concessions form Radha before getting the audience of the Lord.

Why Krsna Became Gauranga Mahaprabhu
". . .Radha is Krishna's Yoga-maya, or "internal energy" of the Lord, her activities are so amazing and wonderful.

Even sometimes it becomes very difficult on the part of Krsna to understand them! What to speak of us, even Krsna becomes amazed!

Radharani is hladini sakti. She is Madana-mohana-Mohini (who attracts the senses of Madana-Mohan) Krishna.

Krishna always thinks of Radharani. He gets so much pleasure when He unites with Radha, which He cannot get elsewhere . . . "
Click to expand...

Each of us has only one perfect counterpart and you need this , your feminine side is your female counterpart. This counterpart is mentioned in all religious texts. Love, compassion ect through acts of kindness is the way to go. Tap into as a man not only god within yourself no matter what language you use to describe him but also your female counterpart. Its all about love. So be kind to her, talk to her, show her you love her which also shows you love yourself and your own divine self :)
 
bhaktajan said:
Radha, The Personification of Bhakti

Radha is the embodiment of Mahabhava. The word Radha etymologically means a devotee. Radha is the Chief of Krishna's sweethearts.

Radha, The Personification of Bhakti


Here is a painting of Radha & Krishna:


0.jpg
Click to expand...

When it comes down to it we each have only one counterpart. We are two who are also one and three as one complete being. Sometimes ethnic background doesnt matter. All have the same blood or come from the same source. So your true opposite may not be someone of the same color skin, ethnic background.
 
chakraman said:
you'll have to explain this in reference to mt post, are you saying my wish to be ego-less is bourne of self interest? if so i appreciate that
Click to expand...

Chakra - your input on this post is interesting, your mind thinks very differently than mine and I'm enjoying pondering your thoughts.

Regarding Adam Smith and self-interest, he argues most everything in society is motivated by self-interest, and that is ultimately what benefits all of our standards of living and society as a whole. Similar to the "high tide lifts all boats" theory.

To expound on that concept, can you give me an example of something you do that's NOT motivated by your own self-interest in some way, shape, or form?

Are you familiar with Maslow's heirarchy of needs? It seems like many of your arguments for "dropping self" would only apply to those who have reached self-actualization? How can an uneducated African woman who can't even read and whose kids are starving begin to think about "dropping self" or "extinguishing self-interest"? And what does that say for how to go about addressing some of the biggest problems facing the world today, if you believe self-interest must first be extinguished before intelligent action can be taken?
 
IowaGuy said:
It seems like many of your arguments for "dropping self" would only apply to those who have reached self-actualization?

How can an uneducated African woman who can't even read and whose kids are starving begin to think about "dropping self" or "extinguishing self-interest"?

And . . . how to go about addressing some of the biggest problems facing the world today, if you believe self-interest must first be extinguished before intelligent action can be taken?
Click to expand...

I recently hear the following from a saintly peson:

"One surrenders to a strict spiritual after that person is tired of sufferring"

Of course, it has long been said that the escape from samsara requires the determination to stop the cycle ---determination that is borne of the realisation that we are in a world of suffering.


Some of my own notes:

we are in a world of sufferRing:

This world is a world of temporary existence.
The binding influence of our mundane acts (sin) causes bondage.

Devotional servitorship to God and his devotees is the path that leads us away from the life of "repeated birth & deaths" (aka, transmigration of the soul, re-incarnation of the soul into future another body at death).

The material world where life is animated by the presence of a conscious soul is an embarassing situation that the soul finds itself ensconced in while compromising eternality for temporal delights.

The material world is a place of sufferring [the 1st Noble Truth of Buddhist Doctrine].


But all sentient beings are suffering, like a gentleman who will not exit the bathroom--after too long he is even seen as crazy or inable to get out on his own strength. No?
Thusly, the sober minded person seeks out permanence and repose from nature and samsara because actually 'all is doofy, funky, embarassing, dunkey chasing the carrot & stick' types of suffering. Like in the daily news papers advertise.


'the mind does not survive the death of the body'. The gita shows how the soul never changes during the 6 changes [birth, growth, maintanence, old age, disease, death].

In broad terms, the Buddhist assessment of reincarnation is 'to die consciously' --this is the way also followed by sadhus of India. The destinations are simularly arrange by different names--but, one who intends to ascend & alight to Las Vegas must arrange specifically for the desired destination after death.
1-suffer in life, seek the path the ABSOLUTE truth.
2-die without mental delirium, in a samadhi-like repose.
3-repeat the above until: "the Dharma of thePersonality of Godhead is revealed" during some time, some time during a kalpa sometime--then practice that dharma to relinquish one's own material sense of "I" and "mine".

::::::::::::::::::::::::::
SUFFERRING:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/beliefs/fournobletruths_1.shtml

The Four Noble Truths contain the essence of the Buddha's teachings. It was these four principles that the Buddha came to understand during his meditation under the bodhi tree.
  • The truth of suffering (Dukkha)
  • The truth of the origin of suffering (Samudāya)
  • The truth of the cessation of suffering (Nirodha)
  • The truth of the path to the cessation of suffering (Magga)
The Buddha is often compared to a physician. In the first two Noble Truths he diagnosed the problem (suffering) and identified its cause. The third Noble Truth is the realisation that there is a cure.
The fourth Noble Truth, in which the Buddha set out the Eightfold Path, is the prescription, the way to achieve a release from suffering.
 
"Chakra - your input on this post is interesting, your mind thinks very differently than mine and I'm enjoying pondering your thoughts."

IG and Chakra, I, too, am enjoying this immensely.

"Regarding Adam Smith and self-interest, he argues most everything in society is motivated by self-interest, and that is ultimately what benefits all of our standards of living and society as a whole. Similar to the "high tide lifts all boats" theory."

You do realize, IG, that Wealth is merely a continuation of "Theory of Moral Sentiment". If one reads Smith that way he becomes more of a utilitarian--there is an altruistic sympathy which under lays us all. So man is both "simultaneously self-regarding and other-regarding". I believe this aspect of Smith is too little taught and written about.

"To expound on that concept, can you give me an example of something you do that's NOT motivated by your own self-interest in some way, shape, or form?"

Yep, what is my self-interest when I donate anonymously (and, no, I am not risk enough that it is anything but a net loss on taxes).

" Are you familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs? It seems like many of your arguments for "dropping self" would only apply to those who have reached self-actualization? How can an uneducated African woman who can't even read and whose kids are starving begin to think about "dropping self" or "extinguishing self-interest"? And what does that say for how to go about addressing some of the biggest problems facing the world today, if you believe self-interest must first be extinguished before intelligent action can be taken? "

On this moral point I side with you absolutely. It always seemed unfair that we (white western men) branded, say, New Guinean natives, as spiritually lacking because (a) they developed "cargo cults" (Mad Max is based on this) and (b) they were cannibals. Living at the extreme edge of disease and poverty, asking them to "extinguish self-interest" or interest of the family or clan seems a little presumptuous, to me at least.

Again, just wonderful repartee. Radarmark
 
radarmark said:
Yep, what is my self-interest when I donate anonymously
Click to expand...

Of course I cannot know your true motivations, but does it make you happier when you help others out? Could this appeal to self-interest be part of your motivation? i.e. like the Dalai Lama teaches, that the best way to increase our own happiness is through compassion to others?

Just to clarify, I don't think it's necessarily bad that humans operate in their own self-interest at times. I do agree with Adam Smith that in many instances it benefits society as a whole when individuals pursue their own self-interest. For example, if someone is more likely to help others out of self-interest because it makes them happier, then this is good for society. Better for society, IMHO, than that individual meditating 8 hours/day for the next 10 years trying to eliminate "self"...
 
bhaktajan said:
I recently hear the following from a saintly peson:

"One surrenders to a strict spiritual after that person is tired of sufferring"

Of course, it has long been said that the escape from samsara requires the determination to stop the cycle ---determination that is borne of the realisation that we are in a world of suffering.


Some of my own notes:

we are in a world of sufferRing:

This world is a world of temporary existence.
The binding influence of our mundane acts (sin) causes bondage.

Devotional servitorship to God and his devotees is the path that leads us away from the life of "repeated birth & deaths" (aka, transmigration of the soul, re-incarnation of the soul into future another body at death).

The material world where life is animated by the presence of a conscious soul is an embarassing situation that the soul finds itself ensconced in while compromising eternality for temporal delights.

The material world is a place of sufferring [the 1st Noble Truth of Buddhist Doctrine].


But all sentient beings are suffering, like a gentleman who will not exit the bathroom--after too long he is even seen as crazy or inable to get out on his own strength. No?
Thusly, the sober minded person seeks out permanence and repose from nature and samsara because actually 'all is doofy, funky, embarassing, dunkey chasing the carrot & stick' types of suffering. Like in the daily news papers advertise.


'the mind does not survive the death of the body'. The gita shows how the soul never changes during the 6 changes [birth, growth, maintanence, old age, disease, death].

In broad terms, the Buddhist assessment of reincarnation is 'to die consciously' --this is the way also followed by sadhus of India. The destinations are simularly arrange by different names--but, one who intends to ascend & alight to Las Vegas must arrange specifically for the desired destination after death.
1-suffer in life, seek the path the ABSOLUTE truth.
2-die without mental delirium, in a samadhi-like repose.
3-repeat the above until: "the Dharma of thePersonality of Godhead is revealed" during some time, some time during a kalpa sometime--then practice that dharma to relinquish one's own material sense of "I" and "mine".

::::::::::::::::::::::::::
SUFFERRING:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/beliefs/fournobletruths_1.shtml


The Four Noble Truths contain the essence of the Buddha's teachings. It was these four principles that the Buddha came to understand during his meditation under the bodhi tree.
  • The truth of suffering (Dukkha)
  • The truth of the origin of suffering (Samudāya)
  • The truth of the cessation of suffering (Nirodha)
  • The truth of the path to the cessation of suffering (Magga)
The Buddha is often compared to a physician. In the first two Noble Truths he diagnosed the problem (suffering) and identified its cause. The third Noble Truth is the realisation that there is a cure.
The fourth Noble Truth, in which the Buddha set out the Eightfold Path, is the prescription, the way to achieve a release from suffering.
Click to expand...

When god speaks of suffering hes referring to things that dont harm you. Like tears of joy, guilt ect this kind of suffering leads to healing and doesnt harm someone. I am pretty sure you know this already seeing this post.
 
IG, I think both sides of the discussion are true (I realize that is contradictory and inconsistent, but I don't have to be either). The "sympathy" (per Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiment) I have when I see another in need can, I believe, on its own prompt one to action. For instance, I recently saw a wreck and realized the driver (who was thrown from his car) was really, really upset with seeing a body (ended up it was his Father), so I rushed over and threw a spread over the corpse. Or better yet that is probably the only possible reason for someone to jump onto a live grenade (sympathy for the others in the unit or their kin).

However, in most inatnces it is precisely what HHTD Lama says, we are rewarding ourselves within ourselves. But then is that what is menat by "self-interest"? Since that term is usually applied to behavior and rewards, how can interior thought be either behavior or a reward.

Interesting topic we might exchange views on.
 
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